Problems plotting to 7470.exe ("missing comma")

[Joerg]

Ok, guys, got the Prologix working and the KE5FX toolkit going. The goal
is to do a proper HPGL data transfer from an HP3577 analyzer to the PC.
Set the HP3577 to talk-only and 7470.exe to waiting for a device
initiated plot. So far so good.

Now all I get is two error message and (most of the time) 7470.exe
aborts and when calling it up again shows the same error message. When
clicking that message it just keeps aborting.

First I get this error:
"missing comma - malformed data?"

Then if I try again this one:
"Could not open plot0000.plt for writing"

It's been a long time since I dealt with HPGL but the only problem ever
was a missing "pen down" command which had to be added by hand. What's
this missing comma business?

 

[Martin Brown]

Ok, guys, got the Prologix working and the KE5FX toolkit going. The goal
is to do a proper HPGL data transfer from an HP3577 analyzer to the PC.
Set the HP3577 to talk-only and 7470.exe to waiting for a device
initiated plot. So far so good.

Now all I get is two error message and (most of the time) 7470.exe
aborts and when calling it up again shows the same error message. When
clicking that message it just keeps aborting.

First I get this error:
"missing comma - malformed data?"

Wow. That is a blast from the past. Do you have a GPIB bus analyser to
see what gives?

You are probably looking at a small discreprancy between what the
plotter emulator program expects and what the analyser sends. You may
be better off grabbing the HPGL file with a simple PC program and then
looking at it manually for syntax errors.

Then if I try again this one:
"Could not open plot0000.plt for writing"

Probably a filehandle still open.

It's been a long time since I dealt with HPGL but the only problem ever
was a missing "pen down" command which had to be added by hand. What's
this missing comma business?

Small difference in the syntactic sugar somewhere along the line.
The program complaining about the missing comma might well be right,
but that is scant consolation.
Is there a log commands to file option on that program ?
It is decades since I used HPGL and real hardware 7470 & 7475s.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[mpm]

Ok, guys, got the Prologix working and the KE5FX toolkit going. The goal
is to do a proper HPGL data transfer from an HP3577 analyzer to the PC.
Set the HP3577 to talk-only and 7470.exe to waiting for a device
initiated plot. So far so good.

Now all I get is two error message and (most of the time) 7470.exe
aborts and when calling it up again shows the same error message. When
clicking that message it just keeps aborting.

First I get this error:
"missing comma - malformed data?"

Then if I try again this one:
"Could not open plot0000.plt for writing"

It's been a long time since I dealt with HPGL but the only problem ever
was a missing "pen down" command which had to be added by hand. What's
this missing comma business?

This is going to sound really stupid, but is your mouse using the same
IRQ as the port you are using for the inbound plot?

-mpm

 

[mpm]

Ok, guys, got the Prologix working and the KE5FX toolkit going. The goal
is to do a proper HPGL data transfer from an HP3577 analyzer to the PC.
Set the HP3577 to talk-only and 7470.exe to waiting for a device
initiated plot. So far so good.

Now all I get is two error message and (most of the time) 7470.exe
aborts and when calling it up again shows the same error message. When
clicking that message it just keeps aborting.

First I get this error:
"missing comma - malformed data?"

Then if I try again this one:
"Could not open plot0000.plt for writing"

It's been a long time since I dealt with HPGL but the only problem ever
was a missing "pen down" command which had to be added by hand. What's
this missing comma business?

Just remembered, and "No" this won't be particularly helpful, but it
might put a smile on your face...

I (very occasionally) plot to an E-size pen plotter (HP DraftPro
Plus) - They did not make very many of these.
Yet Windows has a driver for it. (I know, weird huh?!)

In true Microsoft form, the first command sent is a "page eject"
string, so is obviously a problem when you try to use the printer in
single-sheet mode !! (Microsoft does some pretty stupid stuff
sometimes!)

It was pretty aggrevating have to manually "trim" the Eject command
before transmission, but I finally found an aftermarket driver that
worked perfectly. (HP does not offer an XP driver for this
plotter.)

I am wondering if you have a similar sort of problem, only in the
reverse direction.? Good luck! -mpm

 

[Joerg]

Wow. That is a blast from the past. Do you have a GPIB bus analyser to
see what gives?

Nope, I don't :-(

You are probably looking at a small discreprancy between what the
plotter emulator program expects and what the analyser sends. You may
be better off grabbing the HPGL file with a simple PC program and then
looking at it manually for syntax errors.

I have a file. Tried to import it into my Mech CAD package which can
read all those legacy thing. It only draws a small "Picasso" from that.
Possibly this is a stream formatted for 7470 printers, ThinkJets and the
like that isn't 100% HPGL. Got to find that out today. Of course, so
that my plate overfloweth just this morning my wife's laptop croaked.
Sounds like the HD is running at a very low speed. Darn!

Probably a filehandle still open.

7470 was the only program running. But it is prone to abort itself a
lot. Slight error message, poof, gone.

Small difference in the syntactic sugar somewhere along the line.
The program complaining about the missing comma might well be right,
but that is scant consolation.
Is there a log commands to file option on that program ?

Well, I've got the file and it sure doesn't look like pure old HPGL to
me. But the ThinkJets always worked on it.

It is decades since I used HPGL and real hardware 7470 & 7475s.

Same here. I used to take screen shots but that gets old. Thing is, I
have yet to see an analyzer with the noise and dynamic performance of
the 3577. The only gripe I have is its extremely loud "wind tunnel
style" fan.

 

[Joerg]

This is going to sound really stupid, but is your mouse using the same
IRQ as the port you are using for the inbound plot?

No

One is #1, the other #7. Also, the mouse isn't used at all. You set
7470.exe to "wait for device data stream", the PC is doing nothing until
data shows up on the GPIB bus.

 

[John Devereux]

No

One is #1, the other #7. Also, the mouse isn't used at all. You set
7470.exe to "wait for device data stream", the PC is doing nothing
until data shows up on the GPIB bus.

Is it HP PCL data rather than HPGL?

I gather you have a linux installation - try the hp2xx utility.

For my GPIB "network" run from the prologix I ended up writing a
little script in python (my first). It waits for some incoming data,
then uses hp2xx and the "convert" utility to write out a numbered PNG
file. I guess it does essentially the same as 7470.exe but I can
fiddle it for my devices.

 

[Joerg]

Just remembered, and "No" this won't be particularly helpful, but it
might put a smile on your face...

I (very occasionally) plot to an E-size pen plotter (HP DraftPro
Plus) - They did not make very many of these.
Yet Windows has a driver for it. (I know, weird huh?!)

Wow, now that is true retro

In true Microsoft form, the first command sent is a "page eject"
string, so is obviously a problem when you try to use the printer in
single-sheet mode !! (Microsoft does some pretty stupid stuff
sometimes!)

I remember. At a client one of their engineers wanted to have my
schematic in super-duper-wallpaper size. "Ok, I'll go and catch the
empty sheet". It was another brand, not HP, but same thing.

Later that day the same engineer went to unclog it. Someone else peeked
over a cube wall "Hey, Joe, can you catch the empty sheet?" ... "Nooo!"
.... clunk .... bzzzt .... *SPLAT*. Shirt ruined. Thou shalt not unclog a
plotter with the RS232 cable still in there.

It was pretty aggrevating have to manually "trim" the Eject command
before transmission, but I finally found an aftermarket driver that
worked perfectly. (HP does not offer an XP driver for this
plotter.)

I am wondering if you have a similar sort of problem, only in the
reverse direction.? Good luck! -mpm

The strange thing is that John Miles specifically mentions the HP3577 in
the manual for his 7470.exe program. Yet somehow this cannot work
because 7470.exe isn't a full emulator for that old plotter. It does not
natively understand HPGL. It's got some translation code in there but
only for select analyzers not including the 3577. Really strange. Guess
I'll write to John, just didn't want to bother him if someone in this NG
has already figured out how to do it. I can't be the only analog guy
using a 3577. Creators of such SW usually get bombarded with requests
like "How can I connect my drill press to it ...?"

 

[Joerg]

Is it HP PCL data rather than HPGL?

Who knows, says HP-GL in the manual, followed by a list of plotters that
will work. Also, it mentions that HP LaserJets with PCL have HPGL as a
subset and can print that as well. But the old HP-III went over the
bridge a few years ago.

I gather you have a linux installation - try the hp2xx utility.

Unfortunaetly not in the lab and my Prologix isn't the Ethernet kind.

For my GPIB "network" run from the prologix I ended up writing a
little script in python (my first). It waits for some incoming data,
then uses hp2xx and the "convert" utility to write out a numbered PNG
file. I guess it does essentially the same as 7470.exe but I can
fiddle it for my devices.

Thanks, I'll have to check that out. I was able to store one plot before
the usual abort and then I could try to untangle it here on Ubuntu in a
virtual machine.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

Firing up my trusty old HP3577 and acquiring some plots,
I notice that the third character in the plot files is a
^C (Between the initial LB command and the first semicolon).
The hp2xx program croaks on that, and likely so does 7470.exe.
It works fine when I remove the first four bytes: "LB^C;".

Cheers,
Jeroen Belleman

 

[Joerg]

Firing up my trusty old HP3577 and acquiring some plots,
I notice that the third character in the plot files is a
^C (Between the initial LB command and the first semicolon).
The hp2xx program croaks on that, and likely so does 7470.exe.
It works fine when I remove the first four bytes: "LB^C;".

This is how my data stream looks:
http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/plot0000.zip

Or as a pdf:
http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/plot0000.pdf

Appears to be pretty hosed :-(

 

[Mark Zenier]

Is it HP PCL data rather than HPGL?

I gather you have a linux installation - try the hp2xx utility.

For my GPIB "network" run from the prologix I ended up writing a
little script in python (my first). It waits for some incoming data,
then uses hp2xx and the "convert" utility to write out a numbered PNG
file. I guess it does essentially the same as 7470.exe but I can
fiddle it for my devices.

There's "PrintGL" an old DOS and Windows program that's a printer driver
to output HPGL in various flavors to printers or graphics file formats.
It'll work as a command line utility for file conversion. It's been
around long enough that it may be able to deal with various quirks.
Ravitz Software or something like that. (The first item to come up if
you google "printgl").

Mark Zenier [email protected]

 

[[email protected]]

Nope, I don't :-(


I have a file. Tried to import it into my Mech CAD package which can
read all those legacy thing. It only draws a small "Picasso" from that.
Possibly this is a stream formatted for 7470 printers, ThinkJets and the
like that isn't 100% HPGL. Got to find that out today. Of course, so
that my plate overfloweth just this morning my wife's laptop croaked.
Sounds like the HD is running at a very low speed. Darn!



7470 was the only program running. But it is prone to abort itself a
lot. Slight error message, poof, gone.



Well, I've got the file and it sure doesn't look like pure old HPGL to
me. But the ThinkJets always worked on it.


Same here. I used to take screen shots but that gets old. Thing is, I
have yet to see an analyzer with the noise and dynamic performance of
the 3577. The only gripe I have is its extremely loud "wind tunnel
style" fan.

Heh heh, a few of the gang was at the old Test Lab parking lot sale.
There were no takers for a pile of HP bus analyzers, so they dumped
them at $20, which for Test Lab is free. Do I miss that sale or what?
I bought two 334s, both worked, so I gave one away as a wedding gift.
The groom liked it, but the bride was not amused.

I never used the HP 3577. It sounds a bit long in the tooth for simple
devices, but is probably good for op amps and systems.

 

[Joerg]

Heh heh, a few of the gang was at the old Test Lab parking lot sale.

Where are those? Are they announced somewhere?

There were no takers for a pile of HP bus analyzers, so they dumped
them at $20, which for Test Lab is free. Do I miss that sale or what?
I bought two 334s, both worked, so I gave one away as a wedding gift.
The groom liked it, but the bride was not amused.




I never used the HP 3577. It sounds a bit long in the tooth for simple
devices, but is probably good for op amps and systems.

The 3577 network analyzer and the 3585 spectrum analyzer were IMHO among
the best test devices ever made on this planet. Really quiet
(electrically, the fan makes quite a racket) and a dynamic range from
here to the Klondike.

 

[[email protected]]

Where are those? Are they announced somewhere?


The 3577 network analyzer and the 3585 spectrum analyzer were IMHO among
the best test devices ever made on this planet. Really quiet
(electrically, the fan makes quite a racket) and a dynamic range from
here to the Klondike.

Test Lab used to have a once a year sale where they dumped what they
considered junk. Well yeah, if you are Test Lab, a 334 is junk.
However, they were going for nearly $200 used at the time. I'm not
even sure if the company exists anymore. Test Lab was across from the
long extinct Haltek (not Halted).

I once got to enter Test Labs "Mecca" of manuals. In the day, the HP
1725A scope was a popular item on the used market. I think Intel had
dumped a bunch. It is of the era of custom chips and hybrids, so a
manual would be nice. I went to Test Lab and asked to buy one. The
reply was "WE (emphasis on we) don't sell manuals." I mentioned who
sent me on the fools errand, and they said come on in. You could smell
the manuals. Shelf after shelf, isle after isle. I'm sure I was
getting a whiff of the smell of the instruments too.

Here is the address:
----------------------------------------
Test Lab Co. (800) 442-5835 (415) 969-1142
1066 Linda Vista Av.
Mountian View CA 94043
http://www.testlabco.com
Next to Haltek, see directions above. These guys have 3 Cal Lab guys
full time in back, prices are high, but they have just about every
peice of test equipment you can immagine, calibrated and ready to go!
Microwave guides, and sensors, scopes, wierd stuff... ask for a tour.

 

[Joerg]

Test Lab used to have a once a year sale where they dumped what they
considered junk. Well yeah, if you are Test Lab, a 334 is junk.
However, they were going for nearly $200 used at the time. I'm not
even sure if the company exists anymore. Test Lab was across from the
long extinct Haltek (not Halted).

I once got to enter Test Labs "Mecca" of manuals. In the day, the HP
1725A scope was a popular item on the used market. I think Intel had
dumped a bunch. It is of the era of custom chips and hybrids, so a
manual would be nice. I went to Test Lab and asked to buy one. The
reply was "WE (emphasis on we) don't sell manuals." I mentioned who
sent me on the fools errand, and they said come on in. You could smell
the manuals. Shelf after shelf, isle after isle. I'm sure I was
getting a whiff of the smell of the instruments too.

It really irks me when companies assess your "level of nobility" by what
the name of your employer is.

Here is the address:
----------------------------------------
Test Lab Co. (800) 442-5835 (415) 969-1142
1066 Linda Vista Av.
Mountian View CA 94043
http://www.testlabco.com
Next to Haltek, see directions above. These guys have 3 Cal Lab guys
full time in back, prices are high, but they have just about every
peice of test equipment you can immagine, calibrated and ready to go!
Microwave guides, and sensors, scopes, wierd stuff... ask for a tour.

Under construction? Hmm, usually not a good sign ...

 

[[email protected]]

It really irks me when companies assess your "level of nobility" by what
  the name of your employer is.


Under construction? Hmm, usually not a good sign ...

Actually, I gave the name of a person, not a company. The individual
in question grinned from ear to ear when he learned that dropping his
name got me in the door.

 

[John Miles, KE5FX]

It's been a long time since I dealt with HPGL but the only problem ever
was a missing "pen down" command which had to be added by hand. What's
this missing comma business?

Hi, Joerg --

Sorry for the cryptic messages and poor error handling. The human-
factors team will be disciplined accordingly.

Usually the "missing comma, malformed data" message means that you
haven't set your instrument up for HPGL output at all; it is either
configured to talk to a non-HP plotter, or it's sending PCL or Epson
printer codes instead of HPGL. I looked at the .plt file in the
zipfile you linked to elsewhere, and that appears to be what's going
on.

I don't have a 3577A myself, but at some point, someone reported that
they were able to get it to work, and sent me a plot from theirs.
It's included in the c:\program files\ke5fx\gpib\sample hpgl files
subdirectory.

I'm always happy to take a look at problematic .plt files if you'll
email them to me via the link in the helpfile. They are usually easy
enough to diagnose... although that renderer is a major kludge, so
there isn't always a way to make plots from specific instruments look
good.

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

I don't have any other way to post to Usenet these days; if he doesn't
get this message, can someone please reply and quote the whole thing?

-- john, KE5FX

 

[JeffM]

Hi, Joerg --

Sorry for the cryptic messages and poor error handling. The human-
factors team will be disciplined accordingly.

Usually the "missing comma, malformed data" message means that you
haven't set your instrument up for HPGL output at all; it is either
configured to talk to a non-HP plotter, or it's sending PCL or Epson
printer codes instead of HPGL. I looked at the .plt file in the
zipfile you linked to elsewhere, and that appears to be what's going
on.

I don't have a 3577A myself, but at some point, someone reported that
they were able to get it to work, and sent me a plot from theirs.
It's included in the c:\program files\ke5fx\gpib\sample hpgl files
subdirectory.

I'm always happy to take a look at problematic .plt files if you'll
email them to me via the link in the helpfile. They are usually easy
enough to diagnose... although that renderer is a major kludge, so
there isn't always a way to make plots from specific instruments look
good.

I don't have any other way to post to Usenet these days; if he doesn't
get this message, can someone please reply and quote the whole thing?

-- john, KE5FX

I think I'm on Joerg's pre-fab'd whitelist, so let's give this a try.

Besides Google, there are other Port 80 access points to Usenet
which allow posting:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci....matic+NO+Morons+qq-qq+uu-uu+*-delete-*-*-*-OT

 

[Joerg]

Thanks, John! The documentation in the 3577 manual is paltry, roughly
one paragraph and it just says HPGL. But that doesn't mean it's
compatible or anything. Anyhow, I believe I have the occasional stuck
bit and that may be because the Prologix' high threshold is 3V. Way high
for old TTL logic. Abdul (who designed the Prologix) sent me modified
code for the uC in there. I'll try that after lunch. The adapter must be
removed for that and in the rack here that requires major shuffling and
contortions. Occasionally followed by a sharp back pain ...

I think I'm on Joerg's pre-fab'd whitelist, so let's give this a try.

Thanks, Jeff, your post came through. I don't have a whitelist, would be
difficult to do with Thunderbird. It's sad that I had to block Google
but the spam was becoming excessive and the guys at Google did not
listen. IMHO it's a domain to avoid.

John, I don't exactly remember the domain but AFAIK there is a news
server in Germany that is either free or really low cost. If you want to
know I could ask in a German NG. Just let me know. I can receive email
from Google domains. My email address is in my link below. Or use the
one in the header and delete "notthis" and "removethis".