Power mains question: wire gauge

[krw@attt.bizz]

Those things can happen but they have never happened to me if I was the
one to run the wire and string.

The biggest thing is to make sure the wires go in straight. Kinks or
twists will make life miserable later. I've seen people pull Romex
off the center of the roll, without unrolling it. It makes a mess;
bad enough when pulling through rafters but it's a disaster in
conduit.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

I don't take pain killers. None are prescribed.

You should. Obviously.

I'd run the 10. I have 14, 12 & 10 on hand. I use 14 for light
circuits, 12 for most 120V outlets, and 10 for the longer or heavier
loads. There is 75 feet of #6 run to the well house.

It doesn't matter what *YOU* have on hand. #12 works just fine and is
about 1/3 the cost of #10.

In your limited experience.

Almost *NEVER*. In this case, it's *STUPID* to even suggest it.

You cut lots of corners and do everything on the edge of failure.
Labor cost more than the materials, so the difference in the total build
is small.

Wrong. There is no corners cut at all. You're lying, just to make
some sort of point. You're wrong. Step up to it.

Of course you yawn. That's a requirement of the initial specs for
public buildings, everywhere that I've lived & worked.

What *YOU* did *100 YEARS* ago is irrelevant.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Why not put the compressor where the power is, and run an air hose?
Then we could argue about ths size of the hose.

Actually, that's what I plan to do. Put the compressor in the garage
and pipe the air downstairs. 4" oughtta do it. ;-)

I just have to figure out how much work it's going to be (how things
line up).

 

[Tom Biasi]

Where is it in the NEC that you can 'spiral the wires'? They don't
even allow you to tape them

Where does it say I can't twist them as I feed them?

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

I know that you're a fool.

You're the one inventing "machine shops" out of thin air. Go figure.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Do they use lube on you when you buy 10 AWG? It has 50% more copper
per foot. If you pay 200% more per foot, you've been raped. Do whatever
the hell you like, no one else cares.

#12 is normal stuff, sold by the pallet at HD. #10 is "special" and
quite expensive because of it. Anything outside the norm has a
premium attached to it. For example, 12-3 has only 33% more copper
than 12-2 but costs almost double ($120 vs.$70 per 250' roll). And,
10-2 is $135 per roll, so yes, *DOUBLE*.

When *was* the last time you bought this stuff? You really need to
get out more and bitch less.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Who shops at a big box store when there are electrical distributors
all over the place?

When cornered, change the subject. Figures.

 

[DraconisExtinctor]

Why not put the compressor where the power is, and run an air hose?
Then we could argue about ths size of the hose.

Pressure would remain constant. Flow *can be* constricted over that
distance.

Think hysteresis. Pressure does have a slight drop as one "loads" the
available flow (stored energy). Once you cross that threshold and the
flow rate becomes the bottleneck, pressure can drop on a continuous duty
"draw".

Just run plastic pipe. They even have tool-free fittings for pneumatic
service.

 

[DraconisExtinctor]

Hose? What's wrong with iron pipe? Good old fashioned black iron
pipe. That has been beat to death on news:rec.crafts.metalworking

Pretty expensive at the per foot level compared to modern plastic
solutions.

And hose would work too.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Pretty expensive at the per foot level compared to modern plastic
solutions.

The plastic (PVC) I've seen is *not* recommended for air supply. It
will shatter. Do you have other information? Cite?

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Who shops at a big box store when there are electrical distributors
all over the place?

Oh, look! Grainger wants $141.10 for 250' of 12/2, TWICE what HD gets
for it.

 

[John S]

Oh, look! Grainger wants $141.10 for 250' of 12/2, TWICE what HD gets
for it.

Did you check Ebbay?

 

[DraconisExtinctor]

The plastic (PVC) I've seen is *not* recommended for air supply.

Then, water pipes must not be the solution of which I speak.

It will shatter. Do you have other information? Cite?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203478023#.UOM0Ancpu3E

There are plenty of factories and production labs piped out with
plastic 1 1/2 pipe and hand swage fittings. It is, in fact, the de facto
standard in any industrial environment these days. at least where we are
not worried about some dope on a tow motor banging into it.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Did you check Ebbay?

No. Why would I?

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Gee, I bought a roll of 12/2 with ground two years ago for $25.

That was two years ago. Tell me what you paid last week.

Sigh. That is THE 'big box' supplier to industry, not a wholesaler.
Grainger?

They are there to reduce downtime, not be the cheapest source on earth.
Also, the prices on their website aren't the same a business pays, it is
their full RETAIL. Like any wholesaler, the price you pay depends on
the volume of business you do, or a manager who will give you better
terms because of the way you do business with them. When I was doing a
fair amount of electrical work I had an open account where I bought
almost everything by the box/bundle/bag, unlike other customers. They
would wait on me first, and gave me 'D' column prices which was their
best discount rate. They allowed me to pull my own stock, while they
waited on someone else or to look for something that would work, to
replace an oddball item I needed.

The point stands. Cost isn't just material. It's volume, as well.
Expensive commodities sitting on the shelf cost more than those that
fly off the shelf.

Do you have a Grainger account? Fastenall? Any industrial
accounts? Do you do purchasing for a business?

Get real, Michael. You lost.

 

[John S]

No. Why would I?

Well, you wouldn't unless you were looking for a bargain.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

Well, you wouldn't unless you were looking for a bargain.

A bargain on safety relates stuff? FleaBay for electrical hardware?
No thanks! I don't buy that stuff from Harbor Freight, either.

 

[DraconisExtinctor]

PVC can shatter and fling bits at high velocity. Other plastics are better for
air.

I never suggested PVC, the idiot responder barked off about it, then
you, the other idiot in this equation.

If a PVC pipe is pressurized by water, and it breaks, the shards have a much
lower velocity than if the pipe carried air.

I do not need a primer, dork. I am not the pair of idiots going on
about PVC pipe.

Because I *do* know what is in the channel. And I know what the physics
are too. I used to make home made cannons of various sizes and proof
them with shotgun powder, which is much more powerful than black powder.
If they survive the heavy load, hot powder test, they'll survive black
powder and no loading. But the failed units tell quite a story to the
observer.

Only a couple orders of magnitude more pressure...

Have a nice day.

 

[AwlSome Auger]

Sigh. I didn't need any last week. in fact, i have more wire than I
need now, and for the rest of my life.

Only takes about a fifteen foot length to toss over the rafter in the
garage. One loop around the neck, a little hop off the step ladder, and
you won't need any wire any more.

 

[krw@attt.bizz]

I never suggested PVC, the idiot responder barked off about it, then
you, the other idiot in this equation.

Perhaps not, AlwaysWrong, but you supported the idea.

<more DimBulb screed snipped>