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OT rant, iphone

P

Peter

He did say "smart phone sales" so one could concur that only sales of
the iPhone itself are being measured.

After reading

<http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2011/11/04/apple-took-52-of-
smartphone-profits-on-4-2-market-share-in-q3-stock-to-hit-560/?
partner=yahootix>

and the two comments found at the bottom I would assume that the above is a
misquote and should be something like...

52% is smartphone profits.
4.2% is mobile phone sales.

That is two different markets.
 
Peter said:
After talking about the easy service I got with my iphone fault I heard
that people have had BROKEN screens replaced on warranty.
....

This makes "Jobs sense". A couple years back you could buy iPhones
(various models) with cracked screen (but maybe still "working")
for $60 on ebay.

I got a couple to make a couple aps and they worked fine for that
purpose. (The public sources for the development system was another matter).

So to keep the prices up it makes sense to curtail this kind of
"back market" by simply replacing parts that probably only cost
the maker $10 per to make, install and ship.
 
K

keithr

Is that what they make from app sales - iTunes?

Although it was not explicitly stated, the article seemed to be talking
about handset sales only.
 
T

Trevor Wilson

No. Why would someone bag a company for providing (fantastic) service?

**I'll say again: In more than 20 years of mobile 'phone ownership, I've
never had to find out how good (or bad) the back up service is for the
following companies:
NEC
Nokia
LG
Samsung
Sony
Ericcson

I've owned 'phones from all these companies (and several from some
companies) and NEVER had a problem with any of them. Most of my old
'phones have gone to family members and are still operating just fine.
Apple may provide excellent back-up service. They probably need to. They
can certainly afford it, given their rip-off pricing.
After talking about the easy service I got with my iphone fault I heard
that people have had BROKEN screens replaced on warranty.

**Woo-hoo. My Nokia has been dropped more times than I care to think
about. Never missed a beat. No broken screen, nothing. Just keeps working.
Prior to iphone I had a Nokia N97, that I sent back for repair and was
replaced with a new one just as bad. Still have it. I liked the FM
transmitter for MP3 but now use bluetooth anyway.






I have not messed about with a mobile battery since....... the O2, apart
from having to remove it to insert remove the SIM.

**Replacing a battery is something I expect (and all reasonable people)
expect to be able to do on any portable product. Regardless of the
brand, batteries remain a weak point of any portable device. Sadly,
Apple don't seem to realise this fact.
Why would one want to service their own phone?

**Battery replacement is hardly a 'service'. Do you send you TV remote
out for service, when the batteries require replacement?
I just want it to work.

**And battery replacement is just one of those things. I always carry a
spare battery for my 'phone, when I'm out. I always carry a spare
battery for my screwdriver/drill too. Making a battery swap difficult is
a sign of bad design.
I guess this is to ensure that you cant remove the battery and stop
the GPS running so they can continue to track you and spy on you even
when you turn it off ?


Who are they?
[looking for foil hat]




Only bling if you are waving it about.
I have used camera on phones transfer to pc since infared was the go.
Outlook maybe not as long but unable to live without.
I also love having music wherever I go without rings on my fingers and
bells on my toes.
Email is noice.
Maps handy.
Tapnews is a great time filler... usenet.


But you are right..... there is a lot of bling about, on all the
"smart" phones now.

**Yep.
 
F

Fraser Johnston

As I mentioned, we have a friend staying with us who has the latest
Iphone whatever, and I've been playing with it over the last few days.
It *looks* nice, but it has quite a few short-comings compared to the
HTC Desire in my opinion, and the most irritating is the Camera.

What iPhone was it? The camera on my 3GS was terrible. The camera on
my 4S is unbelievably good.

Fraser
 
N

Noddy

What iPhone was it? The camera on my 3GS was terrible. The camera on my
4S is unbelievably good.

It's the current one apparently, and it's complete shit.
 
P

Peter

**I'll say again: In more than 20 years of mobile 'phone ownership,
I've never had to find out how good (or bad) the back up service is
for the following companies:
NEC
Nokia
LG
Samsung
Sony
Ericcson

NEC, were hopeless.
Nokia still are.
No idea about LG except their TV's suck.
I owned a Samsing phone once, never again. Had to pull the plug to stop
the synch software that came with it deleting my contacts. Terrible.
I have never owned a Sony.
Ericcson, used to have a couple of week turn around but have no idea how
long now.
Motorolla used to supply loan phones to telstra and service mobile
around Broadmedows somewhere.... are they still made without screws?

I've owned 'phones from all these companies (and several from some
companies) and NEVER had a problem with any of them. Most of my old
'phones have gone to family members and are still operating just fine.


That is fantastic!
A lot of your family members use used mobiles?


Apple may provide excellent back-up service. They probably need to.
They can certainly afford it, given their rip-off pricing.


Is it a ripp off?
I like service.



I have been told replacement screens can cost a couple of hundred
dollars for some Nokias.


**Woo-hoo. My Nokia has been dropped more times than I care to think
about. Never missed a beat. No broken screen, nothing. Just keeps
working.


I dropped my latest iphone in a full bucket of water and had to fish it
out, still working. Whats your point? Woo-hoo?




Ok.
Now would you sell a smart phone on ebay?
I wouldn't.


Reads like they can get a flat battery. ;-)


**Replacing a battery is something I expect (and all reasonable
people) expect to be able to do on any portable product. Regardless of
the brand, batteries remain a weak point of any portable device.
Sadly, Apple don't seem to realise this fact.


That is so last mellenium.
I now expect my devices to last.
Simple.
If they are unable to last then I expect to be able to charge easily in
my car, others car, any USB and most homes.
Very simple.




Do they need them?

**Battery replacement is hardly a 'service'. Do you send you TV remote
out for service, when the batteries require replacement?


It was clarified that servicing a Nokia (apart from battery) above. ;-)
Plug and play boys.
Not multiple batterys and desktop chargers. So 80's!


**And battery replacement is just one of those things. I always carry
a spare battery for my 'phone, when I'm out. I always carry a spare
battery for my screwdriver/drill too. Making a battery swap difficult
is a sign of bad design.



I would have thought making a battery swap unnecessary was a good design
point.

I guess this is to ensure that you cant remove the battery and stop
the GPS running so they can continue to track you and spy on you
even when you turn it off ?


Who are they?
[looking for foil hat]


Should I be alert or alarmed?



With SMART phones I think some should remember, just because you could
doesn't mean you should.


Personally I don't see putting all of ones data into a mobile device
that is connected to multiple wirelss networks to be so smart.
People said that about PC's though.
 
P

Peter

That's a strange question and I fail to see the relevance


Think about data security.
Also, there is software that can be installed on mobiles that are more
than key loggers, they trace your location and allow third parties to
listen in to your telephone calls and see your sms/emails.
I would not sell a smart phone on ebay as I nwould be worried about the
data be retrieved.

Where else are you going to sell a phone when you no longer want it ?
Take it to cash converters or advertise it in the classifieds or
trading post, trade it in (if you can these days) and get nothing for
it ?

I wouldn't. Read above.



As for buying a phone, would I have been better off buying the
identical phone from Telstra etc for $200 odd (at the time) and just
toss away $120 - especially to grubs like them ?


I hate Tel$tra now but this does raise a point.
You can spend $80 on a second hand mobile with no warrenty and no
service. For an extra $120 you get peice of mind that an out of box
fault would be addressed and any other faults would be addressed over
the next twelve months.
You are not even saving half the price, risking your security and *

What if you are away from a power source for a length of time, or in
an emergency or disaster ?

I am often. I charge with my motorcycle (power source).

what about when the battery reaches the end of its useful life ?

As I wrote before, that is so last mellenium. How many decades do you
keep your mobiles for anyway?
Contracts are usually 24 months now, this is also the same time period
mobiles are deducted my the ATO so it makes sence to replace them.
It does not make sence to put used smart phones on ebay, purchase smart
phones from ebay or to bag others that simple use one product over
another.

What are you doing on a tech forum ??


* When I did repair mobiles on a contract basis for the likes of Tel
$ra/Optus/Erricson/Nokia/NEC/Motorrola one thing that disgusted me was
how dirty they get. But you would know this, as you place your second
hand mobile to your face and your family are pressing third hand mobiles
to their face....


They do, as batteries frequently do not last as long as the life of
the device, particularly if they are used a lot, and discharged /
recharged a lot .



So last mellenium. Phones are replaced before the above becomes an
issue. Just like cars!


Once they fail to hold enough charge for reasonable amount of usage
time, its time to replace the batteries.


Wrong, Its time to replace the phone.
You need to go over your math again. ;-)

One or more spare batteries, and ability to change them without
difficulty are vital if you are going to spend any time away from
power sources for charging,


Why would one need a spare battery if one has the ability to charge?
There are so many ways to charge a mobile now days I feel the above is a
none issue.
Take a laptop and charge off that!



If there is an emergency It could save a life.

You have me sold!


so how do you charge your fancy phone then, still needs a charger, and
any sort of charging dock is essentially a desktop charger.


No. A desktop charger (in mobile telephone terms) has always been
optional equipment that allows the ability to charge more than one
battery at a time.


Battery swap is always necessary eventually



You are wrong. To prove this, look at how many other devices no longer
have the battery swap option. Things are no longer made to last ten
years. Look at the houses going up or the cars driving around.
It is cheaper to buy a new one. Expecially with the help of the ATO.
I am not saying this is a good thing, but it is fact.


- its just a matter of time how long it takes until it is needed.
Batteries in these sort of situations only last a certain number of
charge cycles - fail to hold enough charge eventually and need to be
replaced.



So last mellenium.


I guess this is to ensure that you cant remove the battery and
stop the GPS running so they can continue to track you and spy on
you even when you turn it off ?
Who are they?
[looking for foil hat]

Should I be alert or alarmed?

Maybe you need to read up on apple caught logging user location data
and forwarding it to Apple.
It is a breach of the users privacy and rights to privacy. Even
putting aside the bad uses of this sort of technology by bent
governments and authorities, I do not want corporations logging data,
logging keywords from calls, SMS (or conversations even off the phone)
of where I go, when and where I shop, what I buy, How much, how often,
and this being onsold to other companies to help them con me into
buying more crap I do not want through "targeted advertising",
unsolicited calls, spam and junk mail.



I have read about that. It took two days I think Apple to come up with a
fix. The purpose of the file was for the use of other applications. Data
was never sent back to Apple. The problem with the file was it was
easily accessed (even on the PC) and this in turn allowed others to see
where one has been.
I put it to you that all platforms have the capability of doing this.


I wonder what on earth you are doing on a tech forum, you sound more
like an average consumer to me with little tech knowledgs.

:)
Sounds like a great reason to be on a tech forum.
What is your point?


 
B

Buzz^|

I read some figures today, for Q3 2011 the iPhone accounted for 15.0% of
smart phone sales but 66% of smart phone profits.

draw your own conclusions from that.

Best phone is an old style nokia, although the Philips is not bad
either. Makes calls, sms are not a worry , goes a week or more between
charges (the Phillips is a month) is small and because they cost so
little are less likely to get damaged or dropped overboard. Smart phones
are cumbersome and fragile. Tried a n97 for a year or so but got sick of
the battery life and it now is sitting on the desk unused, replaced by a
Nokia classic. When I'm on hollidays (Oz) I have a nokia with the GPS
and web but it is still the small form factor. I live a rough and tumble
life nd big heavy phones get busted too easily, I couldn't imagine being
on a 2 year plan.

--
Brad Leyden
6° 43.5816' S 146° 59.3097' E WGS84
To mail spam is really hot but please
reply to thread so all may benefit
(or laugh at my mistakes)
 
N

Noddy

Again, that's rubbish. And verifiably quite the opposite of the general
opinion. It's why I don't take your view on this too seriously.

By all means take it whatever way you like. I really don't care, and
it's not like I give a toss about who makes the phone I prefer to use. I
get no kick backs from any of them and have no "favourite" brand. To be
honest I'd never even heard of HTC before I bought the Desire.

However, what I can tell you is that doing a direct "phone in each hand"
comparison I think the Desire (even though it's getting on a bit now)
shits all over the latest Iphone for ease of use, applications,
functionality, support and most of all the camera which on the Iphone
I've been playing with for the last couple of days or so is particularly
piss poor.
 
K

Krypsis

By all means take it whatever way you like. I really don't care, and
it's not like I give a toss about who makes the phone I prefer to use. I
get no kick backs from any of them and have no "favourite" brand. To be
honest I'd never even heard of HTC before I bought the Desire.

However, what I can tell you is that doing a direct "phone in each hand"
comparison I think the Desire (even though it's getting on a bit now)
shits all over the latest Iphone for ease of use, applications,
functionality, support and most of all the camera which on the Iphone
I've been playing with for the last couple of days or so is particularly
piss poor.
There are millions out there who will disagree with you on that score.
 
C

CatharticF1

Noddy said:
It's the current one apparently, and it's complete shit.

Again, that's rubbish. And verifiably quite the opposite of the general
opinion. It's why I don't take your view on this too seriously.
 
S

Scotty

"Noddy" wrote in message
Again, that's rubbish. And verifiably quite the opposite of the general
opinion. It's why I don't take your view on this too seriously.

By all means take it whatever way you like. I really don't care, and
it's not like I give a toss about who makes the phone I prefer to use. I
get no kick backs from any of them and have no "favourite" brand. To be
honest I'd never even heard of HTC before I bought the Desire.

However, what I can tell you is that doing a direct "phone in each hand"
comparison I think the Desire (even though it's getting on a bit now)
shits all over the latest Iphone for ease of use, applications,
functionality, support and most of all the camera which on the Iphone
I've been playing with for the last couple of days or so is particularly
piss poor.

Regards,
Noddy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ive had an HD2 for the last year and its camera is awesome for a phone. Very
impressed and even the
most die hard I Phone users admit that the HTC is better.

The only thing that the IPhone can do better than the HTC is its Apps.

Other than that, why spend the extra $300?


Scotty
 
F

F Murtz

Peter said:
That's a strange question and I fail to see the relevance


Think about data security.
Also, there is software that can be installed on mobiles that are more
than key loggers, they trace your location and allow third parties to
listen in to your telephone calls and see your sms/emails.
I would not sell a smart phone on ebay as I nwould be worried about the
data be retrieved.

Where else are you going to sell a phone when you no longer want it ?
Take it to cash converters or advertise it in the classifieds or
trading post, trade it in (if you can these days) and get nothing for
it ?

I wouldn't. Read above.



As for buying a phone, would I have been better off buying the
identical phone from Telstra etc for $200 odd (at the time) and just
toss away $120 - especially to grubs like them ?


I hate Tel$tra now but this does raise a point.
You can spend $80 on a second hand mobile with no warrenty and no
service. For an extra $120 you get peice of mind that an out of box
fault would be addressed and any other faults would be addressed over
the next twelve months.
You are not even saving half the price, risking your security and *

What if you are away from a power source for a length of time, or in
an emergency or disaster ?

I am often. I charge with my motorcycle (power source).

what about when the battery reaches the end of its useful life ?

As I wrote before, that is so last mellenium. How many decades do you
keep your mobiles for anyway?
Contracts are usually 24 months now, this is also the same time period
mobiles are deducted my the ATO so it makes sence to replace them.
It does not make sence to put used smart phones on ebay, purchase smart
phones from ebay or to bag others that simple use one product over
another.

What are you doing on a tech forum ??


* When I did repair mobiles on a contract basis for the likes of Tel
$ra/Optus/Erricson/Nokia/NEC/Motorrola one thing that disgusted me was
how dirty they get. But you would know this, as you place your second
hand mobile to your face and your family are pressing third hand mobiles
to their face....


They do, as batteries frequently do not last as long as the life of
the device, particularly if they are used a lot, and discharged /
recharged a lot .



So last mellenium. Phones are replaced before the above becomes an
issue. Just like cars!


Once they fail to hold enough charge for reasonable amount of usage
time, its time to replace the batteries.


Wrong, Its time to replace the phone.
You need to go over your math again. ;-)

One or more spare batteries, and ability to change them without
difficulty are vital if you are going to spend any time away from
power sources for charging,


Why would one need a spare battery if one has the ability to charge?
There are so many ways to charge a mobile now days I feel the above is a
none issue.
Take a laptop and charge off that!



If there is an emergency It could save a life.

You have me sold!


so how do you charge your fancy phone then, still needs a charger, and
any sort of charging dock is essentially a desktop charger.


No. A desktop charger (in mobile telephone terms) has always been
optional equipment that allows the ability to charge more than one
battery at a time.


Battery swap is always necessary eventually



You are wrong. To prove this, look at how many other devices no longer
have the battery swap option. Things are no longer made to last ten
years. Look at the houses going up or the cars driving around.
It is cheaper to buy a new one. Expecially with the help of the ATO.
I am not saying this is a good thing, but it is fact.


- its just a matter of time how long it takes until it is needed.
Batteries in these sort of situations only last a certain number of
charge cycles - fail to hold enough charge eventually and need to be
replaced.



So last mellenium.


I guess this is to ensure that you cant remove the battery and
stop the GPS running so they can continue to track you and spy on
you even when you turn it off ?

Who are they?
[looking for foil hat]

Should I be alert or alarmed?

Maybe you need to read up on apple caught logging user location data
and forwarding it to Apple.
It is a breach of the users privacy and rights to privacy. Even
putting aside the bad uses of this sort of technology by bent
governments and authorities, I do not want corporations logging data,
logging keywords from calls, SMS (or conversations even off the phone)
of where I go, when and where I shop, what I buy, How much, how often,
and this being onsold to other companies to help them con me into
buying more crap I do not want through "targeted advertising",
unsolicited calls, spam and junk mail.



I have read about that. It took two days I think Apple to come up with a
fix. The purpose of the file was for the use of other applications. Data
was never sent back to Apple. The problem with the file was it was
easily accessed (even on the PC) and this in turn allowed others to see
where one has been.
I put it to you that all platforms have the capability of doing this.


Not if you take the battery out.

I wonder what on earth you are doing on a tech forum, you sound more
like an average consumer to me with little tech knowledgs.

:)
Sounds like a great reason to be on a tech forum.
What is your point?
 
F

F Murtz

Krypsis said:
There are millions out there who will disagree with you on that score.


There are millions that have conned into bottled water.
That shows how gullible the masses are.
 
N

Noddy

There are millions out there who will disagree with you on that score.

Of course there are, but then you're likely to find that there are
millions of people who like the taste of tripe as well.

It's subjective. It either works for you or it doesn't and the Iphone
doesn't do it for me.
 
N

Noddy

Ive had an HD2 for the last year and its camera is awesome for a phone.
Very impressed and even the
most die hard I Phone users admit that the HTC is better.

When viewed side by side the Iphone photos don't look any better or
worse than the HTC's on the small phone screen, but where the HTC really
comes into it's own is when you transfer the pictures onto a PC and look
at them in full screen.

The quality of the HTC pictures is absolutely brilliant whereas the
Iphone images look pretty average.
The only thing that the IPhone can do better than the HTC is its Apps.

You mustn't be looking in the right place :)

There's a *fuckload* of Android apps out there, just like there is for
the Iphone, and just like those for the Iphone some are brilliant whilst
some are complete rubbish. The thing that stands out for me (and not
being an Iphone owner I may be wrong but this is what I've been told) is
that most of the really good & popular apps for the Iphone are all paid
apps, whereas there's a power of brilliant Android apps that are free
through the market.

In fact, Every app on my phone is a free version and they all work
exceptionally well.
Other than that, why spend the extra $300?

It's a bit like Toyota for mine. People will pay extra for anything with
a Toyota badge because they think it's the best thing out there without
ever having tried the alternatives to know if they're right.
 
K

Krypsis

Of course there are, but then you're likely to find that there are
millions of people who like the taste of tripe as well.

It's subjective. It either works for you or it doesn't and the Iphone
doesn't do it for me.
My point exactly. I couldn't be bothered with any sort of smart phone to
be honest. All I want to do is make and receive calls, do the odd sms
and I use the calendar and alarm facility. Inbuilt GPS would be nice but
not mandatory since I have a TomTom for use in the car and when I'm not
in the car, I don't need one.

A large amount of my friends have iPhones and I don't hear them
complaining about the lack of features or apps. They don't complain
about the OS, they just use the phone as they want.

If the iPhone doesn't give you the jollies, then move on and buy
something that does. No point in a "mine is bigger than yours" debate on
usenet because, at the end of the day, no opinions are likely to be changed.

My biggest issue with smartphones is their physical size. Back when cell
phones became ubiquitous, they were quite bulky. Since then they have
shrunk down to a nice pocketable size. The era of the smartphone seems
to be reversing all that as manufacturers try to make the phone into
something more resembling a tablet. You know it's getting ridiculous
when you can get shoulder strap mounts for the smartphone. Maybe it's
because people feel the urge to let the world see their phone on their
upper arm. Is it a statement they are trying to make? Or is it that they
are just getting to big to conveniently fit in pockets?

My 6300 Nokia isn't the best phone around but it is a convenient size
and it doesn't dominate my life. The same cannot be said of so many
smartphone users.
 
K

Krypsis

When viewed side by side the Iphone photos don't look any better or
worse than the HTC's on the small phone screen, but where the HTC really
comes into it's own is when you transfer the pictures onto a PC and look
at them in full screen.

The quality of the HTC pictures is absolutely brilliant whereas the
Iphone images look pretty average.


You mustn't be looking in the right place :)

There's a *fuckload* of Android apps out there, just like there is for
the Iphone, and just like those for the Iphone some are brilliant whilst
some are complete rubbish. The thing that stands out for me (and not
being an Iphone owner I may be wrong but this is what I've been told) is
that most of the really good & popular apps for the Iphone are all paid
apps, whereas there's a power of brilliant Android apps that are free
through the market.

In fact, Every app on my phone is a free version and they all work
exceptionally well.


It's a bit like Toyota for mine. People will pay extra for anything with
a Toyota badge because they think it's the best thing out there without
ever having tried the alternatives to know if they're right.


You mustn't be looking in the right place

There's a *fuckload* of Android apps out there, just like there is for
the Iphone, and just like those for the Iphone some are brilliant whilst
some are complete rubbish. The thing that stands out for me (and not
being an Iphone owner I may be wrong but this is what I've been told) is
that most of the really good & popular apps for the Iphone are all paid
apps, whereas there's a power of brilliant Android apps that are free
through the market.

In fact, Every app on my phone is a free version and they all work
exceptionally well.


It's a bit like Toyota for mine. People will pay extra for anything with
a Toyota badge because they think it's the best thing out there without
ever having tried the alternatives to know if they're right.
Interesting. I drive a Toyota. What I pay extra up front for the "Toyota
badge", I invariable get back when I trade it in after several years.
Whilst in my possession, the Toyota will be reliable and won't give me
grief. To counter your point, I have tried the alternatives and I do
know my choice of a Toyota is the right choice for me. Sure, my Toyota
hasn't the pizzaz of a Porsche, the style of a Benz or BMW or the luxury
of a Rolls Royce but it does what I ask of it. I don't use it to stroke
my ego, I use it to reliably get me from A to B and back again. That's
what it was designed for and it does that admirably.

I suspect the same applies to the iPhones.

I don't have any iPhones but I do have a 9 year old G3 iMac and a 6 year
old G5 Dual processor Powermac. If the build quality of the iPhone is to
the same standard as the build quality of my Macs, then I'd have no
hesitation paying the premium. Right now I just simply don't need all
the extra features the iPhone offers or any smart phone for that matter.
 
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