OT: Burned JPGs sometimes not displayed on DVD player

[Terry Pinnell]

I raised this some time ago in the alt.comp.periphs.cdr NG, but
although I had some helpful suggestions I'm afraid the mystery
remained unsolved.

Using Nero on my XP-based PC I burn some folders of JPG photos to a
CD. On playing this CD on my Phillips DVD player, a minority of the
JPGs do not display. They can be opened OK in any image editor, and so
far I've found nothing whatsoever that distinguishes them from those
that do get displayed. I'm completely baffled. Anyone have any ideas
on the likely cause please?

 

[[email protected]]

Probably progressive JPEGs.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Probably progressive JPEGs.

Thanks, but no, all JPGs the same - none ever saved with the
progressive option.

 

[[email protected]]

Then the second most likely is filenames containing characters that are
not compatible with ISO9660 Level 1.

 

[Active8]

Then the second most likely is filenames containing characters that are
not compatible with ISO9660 Level 1.

ISO, joliet, can't keep trak of it all but I bet yer right. I was
told in the mp3.hardware group that directory name length, depth,
and filename length vary from player to player.

What's a progressive jpg? Sounds like politics

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Then the second most likely is filenames containing characters that are
not compatible with ISO9660 Level 1.

Thanks for the fast follow-up, it's appreciated. But that doesn't seem
to be the cause either. In an attempt to get to the bottom of this,
here are further details.

Many folders contain 1 or several 'non-displaying' files. But the
worst is the following example.
Original folder = D:\Docs\My Pictures\ForDVD\Algarve\
Contains 0 subfolders, 26 files, total size 13,287,490 bytes
All its files are JPG type. (So the first file below is '01-04Apr04
13-21.JPG'.) None are progressive. All are from same camera, a Sony 3M
pixel DSC-P1 Cybershot. Examining their sizes, dimensions, dates, etc,
reveals no obvious distinctions. All display OK from the CD on my
XP-based PC.

I have no grasp of this ISO and Joliet stuff, but that suggestion
sounded promising. However, as you see, neither the original file
names nor the 'DOS type' names used by Nero appear to show differences
in format for the non-displaying files.

Orig file name Display? CD file name
---------------- -------- ------------
01-04Apr04 13-21 YES 01_04APR
02-05Apr04 11-18 YES 02_05APR
03-06Apr04 11-28 YES 03_06APR See below
04-06Apr04 12-14 NO 04_06APR See below
05-07Apr04 10-47 NO 05_07APR
06-07Apr04 12-00 YES 06_07APR
07-07Apr04 12-14 YES 07_07APR
08-07Apr04 13-10 YES 08_07APR
09-07Apr04 16-19 NO 09_07APR
10-08Apr04 11-59 NO 10_08APR
11-08Apr04 12-00 NO 11_08APR
12-08Apr04 12-13 NO 12_08APR
13-09Apr04 10-38 NO 13_09APR
14-05Apr04 09-39 NO 14_05APR
15-09Apr04 12-13 NO 15_09APR
16-09Apr04 12-18 NO 16_09APR
17-09Apr04 12-19 NO 17_09APR
18-09Apr04 12-22 NO 18_09APR
19-09Apr04 12-28 NO 19_09APR
20-09Apr04 15-41 NO 20_09APR
21-05Apr04 10-17 NO 21_05APR
22-05Apr04 10-18 NO 22_05APR
23-05Apr04 10-18 NO 23_05APR
24-05Apr04 10-48 NO 24_05APR
25-05Apr04 11-18 NO 25_05APR
26-04Apr04 11-58 YES 26_04APR

FWIW, I've uploaded a couple of examples:
This (1.32MB) does display:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/03_06APR.JPG

But this (757KB) doesn't:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/04_06APR.JPG

Any further ideas please?

 

[Rich Grise]

Thanks for the fast follow-up, it's appreciated. But that doesn't seem
to be the cause either. In an attempt to get to the bottom of this,
here are further details.

Many folders contain 1 or several 'non-displaying' files. But the
worst is the following example.
Original folder = D:\Docs\My Pictures\ForDVD\Algarve\
Contains 0 subfolders, 26 files, total size 13,287,490 bytes
All its files are JPG type. (So the first file below is '01-04Apr04
13-21.JPG'.) None are progressive. All are from same camera, a Sony 3M
pixel DSC-P1 Cybershot. Examining their sizes, dimensions, dates, etc,
reveals no obvious distinctions. All display OK from the CD on my
XP-based PC.

I have no grasp of this ISO and Joliet stuff, but that suggestion
sounded promising. However, as you see, neither the original file
names nor the 'DOS type' names used by Nero appear to show differences
in format for the non-displaying files.

Orig file name Display? CD file name
---------------- -------- ------------
01-04Apr04 13-21 YES 01_04APR
02-05Apr04 11-18 YES 02_05APR
03-06Apr04 11-28 YES 03_06APR See below
04-06Apr04 12-14 NO 04_06APR See below
05-07Apr04 10-47 NO 05_07APR
06-07Apr04 12-00 YES 06_07APR
07-07Apr04 12-14 YES 07_07APR
08-07Apr04 13-10 YES 08_07APR
09-07Apr04 16-19 NO 09_07APR
10-08Apr04 11-59 NO 10_08APR
11-08Apr04 12-00 NO 11_08APR
12-08Apr04 12-13 NO 12_08APR
13-09Apr04 10-38 NO 13_09APR
14-05Apr04 09-39 NO 14_05APR
15-09Apr04 12-13 NO 15_09APR
16-09Apr04 12-18 NO 16_09APR
17-09Apr04 12-19 NO 17_09APR
18-09Apr04 12-22 NO 18_09APR
19-09Apr04 12-28 NO 19_09APR
20-09Apr04 15-41 NO 20_09APR
21-05Apr04 10-17 NO 21_05APR
22-05Apr04 10-18 NO 22_05APR
23-05Apr04 10-18 NO 23_05APR
24-05Apr04 10-48 NO 24_05APR
25-05Apr04 11-18 NO 25_05APR
26-04Apr04 11-58 YES 26_04APR

FWIW, I've uploaded a couple of examples:
This (1.32MB) does display:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/03_06APR.JPG

But this (757KB) doesn't:
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/04_06APR.JPG

Any further ideas please?

Is a DVD player even _supposed to_ "play" jpg files? How do
you pick one? Maybe some file boundary(ies) doesn't(don't) land
on the same boundaries a "player" uses for selections. Tracks
and sectors, and all that.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Active8]

Is a DVD player even _supposed to_ "play" jpg files? How do
you pick one? Maybe some file boundary(ies) doesn't(don't) land
on the same boundaries a "player" uses for selections. Tracks
and sectors, and all that.

Download the manual for an Apex DVD player. Tracks and all only
differ between session types and such.

 

[Mark Jones]

Download the manual for an Apex DVD player. Tracks and all only
differ between session types and such.

What DVD burning software are you using Terry?

Try http://www.nero.com/us/index.html

Two things I can think of that might be causing a problem is if the
dimensions of the images are not evenly divisible. A lot of video
players crap out on this simple and unexpected requirement. Some
require dimensions divisible by 2,4,8,16, etc. Try resizing all the
images to dimensions that are evenly divisible by 16. And make sure
the disc is being burnt in "disc at once" mode rather than "track at
once" mode. For some reason, "track at once" seems to cause problems -
maybe it has to do with gaps in the file table.

-M

 

[Active8]

What DVD burning software are you using Terry?

He said "Nero"

Try http://www.nero.com/us/index.html

Two things I can think of that might be causing a problem is if the
dimensions of the images are not evenly divisible. A lot of video
players crap out on this simple and unexpected requirement. Some
require dimensions divisible by 2,4,8,16, etc. Try resizing all the
images to dimensions that are evenly divisible by 16. And make sure
the disc is being burnt in "disc at once" mode rather than "track at
once" mode. For some reason, "track at once" seems to cause problems -
maybe it has to do with gaps in the file table.

I can't remember the physical differences between "track at once",
"leave session open", etc., but I read up on it online. The way the
tracks are used *is* different. IIRC (I hope the thread hasn't been
purged) I was told in the mpg group that I should set things a
certain way or the DVD player wouldn't like my CD.

Here's one post:
Just burn a standard "data disc". You can organise the MP3 files in
folders on the disc.

What players can deal with varies from player to player. To discover
what the particular player can do then trial and error is the best
way. I'd start with 128Kbps MP3's organised into album folders.
*******

 

[Terry Pinnell]

One problem replaced with another ;-(

After much experiment I finally found that I could get 100% reliable
displaying of all JPGs by resaving them at a fixed 'quality' setting.
(Scale depends on software, of course. I used '80%' in ThumbsPlus,
i.e. towards the high quality end. This was arbitrary; for all I know,
*any* quality would work, but no time yet to try - nor enough spare
CDs!)

But, after displaying all photos in the first 11 of 20 folders, the
DVD finished playing. I could then see that it was only *showing* 11
folders in its menu. Yet all 20 can be displayed on the PC.

I burned another with identical settings, just in case. Exactly the
same occurred.

Any suggestions please?

 

[Active8]

One problem replaced with another ;-(

After much experiment I finally found that I could get 100% reliable
displaying of all JPGs by resaving them at a fixed 'quality' setting.
(Scale depends on software, of course. I used '80%' in ThumbsPlus,
i.e. towards the high quality end. This was arbitrary; for all I know,
*any* quality would work, but no time yet to try - nor enough spare
CDs!)

But, after displaying all photos in the first 11 of 20 folders, the
DVD finished playing.

Just to avoid confusion, you did say CD originally.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Just to avoid confusion, you did say CD originally.

Fair point. The DVD PLAYER finished playing the CD-R!

 

[Terry Pinnell]

One problem replaced with another ;-(

After much experiment I finally found that I could get 100% reliable
displaying of all JPGs by resaving them at a fixed 'quality' setting.
(Scale depends on software, of course. I used '80%' in ThumbsPlus,
i.e. towards the high quality end. This was arbitrary; for all I know,
*any* quality would work, but no time yet to try - nor enough spare
CDs!)

But, after displaying all photos in the first 11 of 20 folders, the
DVD finished playing. I could then see that it was only *showing* 11
folders in its menu. Yet all 20 can be displayed on the PC.

I burned another with identical settings, just in case. Exactly the
same occurred.

Any suggestions please?

I've since discovered that my DVD player has a limitation in this mode
of a mere 256 files! That seems incredibly low. Anyone know if there's
some software around that can help me get around that please?

Also, unhappily I was wrong about reliably displaying the images that
*are* accessible. Resaving in the way I described made a major
improvement. I had thought it was now 100% OK. But after more rigorous
study I see that a few still fail to display. As already covered,
there's no pattern I can detect in format, size, filename, etc. All
are JPGs of same 'quality', none were saved with the 'progressive'
option, and all look fine on the PC itself.

Frustrating...

 

[Rich Grise]

I've since discovered that my DVD player has a limitation in this mode
of a mere 256 files! That seems incredibly low. Anyone know if there's
some software around that can help me get around that please?

Also, unhappily I was wrong about reliably displaying the images that
*are* accessible. Resaving in the way I described made a major
improvement. I had thought it was now 100% OK. But after more rigorous
study I see that a few still fail to display. As already covered,
there's no pattern I can detect in format, size, filename, etc. All
are JPGs of same 'quality', none were saved with the 'progressive'
option, and all look fine on the PC itself.

Frustrating...

See if you can find out your track and sector size. I can't shake this
feeling that it has something to do with files starting at sector 0
on each track. I have no idea how you'd accomplish this, other than
to write some kind of padding file.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Ian Stirling]

See if you can find out your track and sector size. I can't shake this
feeling that it has something to do with files starting at sector 0
on each track. I have no idea how you'd accomplish this, other than
to write some kind of padding file.

Both CD and DVD use ISO-9660 file systems.
There are no tracks (a CD/DVD has one spiral track) and a block size of
2048 bytes.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Both CD and DVD use ISO-9660 file systems.
There are no tracks (a CD/DVD has one spiral track) and a block size of
2048 bytes.

Any thoughts on the remaining mystery of non-displayed files please?

 

[Ian Stirling]

Any thoughts on the remaining mystery of non-displayed files please?

Have you considered excorsism?

I would be suspect of something like photoshop to create files, and would
use a really basic tool to ensure that photoshop wasn't doing anything
clever.
Where are the files coming from, all from one source?

 

[Rich Grise]

Both CD and DVD use ISO-9660 file systems.
There are no tracks (a CD/DVD has one spiral track) and a block size of
2048 bytes.

Do any of your jpg files have a file size that's not an exact integral
multiple of 2048 bytes?

I suspect your file system software simply puts the files wherever
they land, and the player software expects them to start at certain
specific points.

One possible fix is to create a new directory, write your first .jpg,
look at how many bytes, divide by 2048, get the remainder, R, and write
a dummy file 2048 - R bytes long. Then write the next jpg, pad it the
same way, and so on.

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[Frank Bemelman]

One problem replaced with another ;-(

After much experiment I finally found that I could get 100% reliable
displaying of all JPGs by resaving them at a fixed 'quality' setting.
(Scale depends on software, of course. I used '80%' in ThumbsPlus,
i.e. towards the high quality end. This was arbitrary; for all I know,
*any* quality would work, but no time yet to try - nor enough spare
CDs!)

But, after displaying all photos in the first 11 of 20 folders, the
DVD finished playing. I could then see that it was only *showing* 11
folders in its menu. Yet all 20 can be displayed on the PC.

I burned another with identical settings, just in case. Exactly the
same occurred.

Any suggestions please?

You should try saving them in a low resolution, just good enough for
TV viewing. Not bigger than VGA or 640x480. You won't notice on
the TV.

I have a feeling that your DVD player gets upset decoding larger jpg's,
requiring more memory that it has available, and quits loading more
complicated pictures, as it runs out of memory while decoding and scaling
them to normal video resolution. Of course it doesn't show any error
message,
because if it did, customers would run to the shop, complaining etc.

I had similar problems using a card reader with video output. Some of the
jpg's wouldn't display.