Non Detectable Alarm System

[Southern]

Had an interesting sales call. The guy wants a system that can not be
detected from outside the residence. He wants pure passive. After talking
with him it looks like:

- plunger door sensors/no magnetic contacts
- PIR, not dual techs
- All hardwired

Anybody else run into these kind of requests. He said I was the first
company that would even consider this. He is willing to pay/do whatever it
takes and needs it in by the 1st. I make take this on just because its
interesting work. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Aegis]

Define non detectable...

Are we talking military EMCON and TEMPEST style anti-detection or what?

 

[Jackcsg]

That's how a security system should be. Invisible. Non-obtrusive. Passive. I
live for guys who think this way. And believe it or not, it's not a rare
find. Good luck.

Jack

 

[Southern]

My guess is that he wants one that a PI or other private party could not
detect from outside the building. He specifically asked for no magnetic
switches and wireless modules, but does not appear to be a tin foil hat
type. That would be a EMCON alarm system. It would not be TEMPEST, since
now commercial panel is TEMPEST certified. (I know what both those acronyms
mean)

 

[Southern]

Good call, I have not considered that. Thanks

If he doesn't want magnetic contacts because they can be detected from the
outside, you'll have to be sure the plunger switches you choose really use
mechanical contacts, a lot of the plunger & roller switches on the market today
use a reed switch and magnet rather than mechanical contacts.

Doug L

Southern wrote

 

[Southern]

You'd be better off avoiding plunger sensors if at all possible. They can
get gummed up with insect matter, dirt, ice or paint. If that happens
there's no protection on the door.

I'm aware of that, and have made him aware of that too. Do you have any
thoughts on which plunger switches work better than others in the long run?

Appreciate the suggestion for the Securitrions. I have not considered that
approach.

You mentioned that the client wants a "totally passive" system. Can you
elaborate on that a bit?

My guess is that he wants an installation that a PI or other private party
could not detect from outside the building. He specifically asked for no
magnetic switches and wireless modules, but does not appear to be a tin foil
hat type. He is correct that magnetic contacts and wireless units can be
detected externally, as can some microwave based motions.

 

[Beachcomber]

The problem with that is mechanical contacts wear out and/or become
oxydized, causing false alarms. They also tend to stick. They require
periodic maintenance inspections to ensure they are functional. I've
replaced numerous older systems which employed mechanical contacts over the
years. Some were the old steel ball type. Others had various types of
plungers. Almost invariably I'd find several sensors that were completely
inoperable.

As stated above, there is a slight but statistically significant
chance that the plunger may stick at the moment it is most needed. In
my house, I've wired my doors with two of these in series (for a
closed circuit loop), and spaced about 2 inches apart to greatly
minimize the chance of a simultaneous dual failure.

In a lot of cases, the lowly plunger contact is often the simplest and
most cost-effective way to wire a door where you don't want it to show
on the inside or outside. I think you're better off with magnetic
contacts for windows, though.

Beachcomber

 

[Aegis]

This thing supposed to get through a security sweep specifically looking for
alarm devices? I've NEVER gotten a request like that. Not even for the 'you
didn't do this for us' types.

I'd go with the roller/plungers, but spray them really good with an
anti-oxidant contact cleaner. Straight PIR's with no microwave fallback are
good. Glassbreaks are passive too, so they are good.

Find out what Bill Gates is using. I saw on TV how his house knows who is
standing where and what temperature they are radiating. It automatically
adjusts the air around them constantly. Sounds very passive and very
advanced to me. Maybe could be adapted for security?

 

[Southern]

This thing supposed to get through a security sweep specifically looking for
alarm devices? I've NEVER gotten a request like that. Not even for the 'you
didn't do this for us' types.

Like I said, he sounded rational and is correct. Detection of wireless
transmitters (No I don't agree with Paul) and magnetic contacts is trivial.
The wiring is going to be a real pain too.

I'd go with the roller/plungers, but spray them really good with an
anti-oxidant contact cleaner. Straight PIR's with no microwave fallback are
good. Glassbreaks are passive too, so they are good.

Bass's points about the issues with plungers is well taken, but they seem to
be the only non-magnetic options. The Visonic SPY series are what I am
going with for PIRs.

Find out what Bill Gates is using. I saw on TV how his house knows who is
standing where and what temperature they are radiating. It automatically
adjusts the air around them constantly. Sounds very passive and very
advanced to me. Maybe could be adapted for security?

My understanding is that its done by wearing badges, but that could just be
rumor.