NiCE what Honeywell/Ademco has done

[Smitty]

Check this link showing AUTHORIZED dealers. Talk about sticking in the small
independents ass BIG TIME.
Time to boycott ADI / Honeywell / Ademco.

http://www.security.honeywell.com/hsce/solutions/residential/national/index.html

-Smitty-

 

[Mark Leuck]

Gee doesn't Napco supply for ADT? Oh wait that must be different

 

[Paul Brewington]

I have been using Ademco for 11 years. I am trying to switch to
someone else because of rising prices, tech support switching to India
(in the planning stages), and stuff like that web page. HONEYWELL is
in it for the money not because they like the little guy. Remember
they too are huge corporate monsters like ADt etc.

I am looking at DSC systems. I know, Tyco owns them too.
Only thing I can do is switch companies. Anybody recommend a good
panel company?


PS, I will call Ademco tomorrow about the web page. I suggest
anyone with a problem do the same.





uy.

 

[Mark Leuck]

I have been using Ademco for 11 years. I am trying to switch to
someone else because of rising prices, tech support switching to India
(in the planning stages), and stuff like that web page. HONEYWELL is
in it for the money not because they like the little guy. Remember
they too are huge corporate monsters like ADt etc.

I am looking at DSC systems. I know, Tyco owns them too.
Only thing I can do is switch companies. Anybody recommend a good
panel company?


PS, I will call Ademco tomorrow about the web page. I suggest
anyone with a problem do the same.

EVERY manufacturer is in it for the money, In my opinion Honeywell has that
web page because most people viewing the page would be familiar with the
companies listed, it's not a slam against small dealers at all.

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Kind of a loaded question ! Everyone will recommend the panels they have
either standardized on, and know best, me included. But if you're looking
for suggestions, I have had superb luck with Paradox panels, both the older
ones and the newer ones. And their tech support is excellent by any
standards. They aren't in India or some other godforsaken place; they are in
Montreal, Canada.

DSC is also excellent equipment. Their tech support is reasonable, although
their panels tend to do strange things from time to time. Another dealer
friend of mine has had good luck with Caddyx equipment.

Just my 2 cents..

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

[Matt Ion]

Kind of a loaded question ! Everyone will recommend the panels they have
either standardized on, and know best, me included. But if you're looking
for suggestions, I have had superb luck with Paradox panels, both the older
ones and the newer ones. And their tech support is excellent by any
standards. They aren't in India or some other godforsaken place; they are in
Montreal, Canada.

And Montreal isn't a godforsaken place??

I personally like Paradox as well. I've found their panels the easiest
to program of the few I've worked with (DSC are about the worst).

Their sales people have also been amazing for me. When my regular
wholesaler (who shall remain nameless) told me Paradox no longer has
available the 'relay' version of their Paradome sensor (the one with
normally-open contacts), Paradox gave me the proper part number and
assured me they still made them... when the wholesaler FINALLY managed
to find a listing for the part on some loose sheet of paper (it's STILL
not listed in their computers), they still insisted it must be no longer
made, but after I forwarded them the email from Paradox, finally figured
out that I'd need to place a minimum order for 300 units (I really only
needed one, for a special project).

Finally when I asked Paradox either to suggest another dealer who WOULD
sell me just one, or to sell me one directly, or even just provide
schematics so I could modify the one I had, they apologized for the
difficulty I had in finding the unit and promised to send me one
directly... for free. When the box arrived... they'd sent me five.

Not a big deal to them, I'm sure - our cost on them is normally around
$25-$30, and to Paradox they're probably worth about $10. For $50 they
bought themselves a LOT of goodwill.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0545-2, 11/11/2005
Tested on: 11/13/2005 11:26:17 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

 

[R.H.Campbell]

I'm not surprised at that sort of response from Paradox. They are not so big
that they've forgotten who their customers really are. And, they haven't
sold out to the large mass marketers either. And rumour has it they told ADT
where to go some years ago.......

BTW, Montreal is a beautiful city, full of French culture, fine restaurants,
beautiful women, and generally friendly people. You can walk the streets at
night without taking your life in your hands as well. No....Detroit and
Chicago are far more "godforsaken" when it comes right down to it.....

RHC

 

[petem]

And Montreal isn't a godforsaken place??

Now thats uncalled for! LOL
I would be more then willing to show you the beauty of living in the
montreal region..
if you ever come around just leave me a message and i will manage to show
you the best stuff there is around montreal

Not a big deal to them, I'm sure - our cost on them is normally around
$25-$30, and to Paradox they're probably worth about $10. For $50 they
bought themselves a LOT of goodwill.

I can say that Stephane Racicot is very effective and a man with a lot of
knowledge..
got him to come on some job site with me, and beside being a good human
being with a pretty fun character,he know his job!

 

[Mark Leuck]

I'm not surprised at that sort of response from Paradox. They are not so big
that they've forgotten who their customers really are. And, they haven't
sold out to the large mass marketers either. And rumour has it they told ADT
where to go some years ago.......

BTW, Montreal is a beautiful city, full of French culture, fine restaurants,
beautiful women, and generally friendly people. You can walk the streets at
night without taking your life in your hands as well. No....Detroit and
Chicago are far more "godforsaken" when it comes right down to it.....

RHC

No offense RH but I seriously doubt they or any other manufacturer told ADT
that since it would be pretty stupid considering the volume ADTdoes unless
they couldn't meet the demand which is DSC's problem.

I also don't see how anyone here thinks any manufacturer "sold out", this is
a business and in order to stay in business they have to make money be it
from ADT, Brinks or Joe's alarmco. When you have a company like ADT which
spends 40-50 million a year in equipment (my guess, it's likely much higher)
a manufacturer would be out of its mind not to try a deal with them. If it
wasn't Honeywell it would be GE, or Bosch or Napco. If you had a web page
showing companies that you installed for wouldn't you list the bigger ones
that people may know? I sure would and thats what Honeywell did.

As far as Paradox not going to large mass marketers my guess is they don't
have the distribution channel but if you think about it why else would they
have created the Magellan?

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Mark, if you knew the guy that runs Paradox, you would know it is perfectly
believable that he told ADT he wasn't interested. While I don't normally
like dealing in rumours, this supposedly happened at a time when Paradox was
still in it's initial growth stage, and a smart businessman like this guy
would never overextend his reach that early in the growth of his company. I
suspect (although I have no way of proving it) that he couldn't come to any
sort of agreement with them based on a lot of factors, not the least being
their need for a volume that at that time, he couldn't handle. However,
rumour has it that he simply didn't like dealing with them for personal
reasons....but who really knows. Paradox has spend the majority of it's
early business development time selling overseas where no one has an
established foothold like the Ademcos of the world do in the USA. They only
now are starting to penetrate the established US market where competition is
stiff, and I gather their growth is slow.

Anyway, the end result is that ADT sales staff routinely tell clients that
the equipment is junk, and supposedly won't deal with it at all. This could
be due to hard feelings, but is more likely based on early experience they
had with pre 2.0 versions of the Esprit panels (which were junk, pure and
simple..). However, since I still have 10 Paradox panels monitored on ADT's
station, I do know they will monitor it (and why wouldn't they after
all....)

Paradox has only pulled one pure stupid move that I know of. Some years ago,
they produced a version of the Esprit panel which after one week in service,
could never be reprogrammed with any other receiver number. This was to
cater to several large mass marketers in the Montreal area. I have to wonder
how these customers are handling the 10 digit dialing that is going to be
mandatory sometime soon (guys, if you see these panels, simply change the
main eeprom for a later one from a scrap board, and the problem will
disappear)

IMO, the Magellan is simply their move to equal the competition in regards
to having a mass marketing panel available.

RHC

 

[Mark Leuck]

Mark, if you knew the guy that runs Paradox, you would know it is perfectly
believable that he told ADT he wasn't interested. While I don't normally
like dealing in rumours, this supposedly happened at a time when Paradox was
still in it's initial growth stage, and a smart businessman like this guy
would never overextend his reach that early in the growth of his company. I
suspect (although I have no way of proving it) that he couldn't come to any
sort of agreement with them based on a lot of factors, not the least being
their need for a volume that at that time, he couldn't handle. However,
rumour has it that he simply didn't like dealing with them for personal
reasons....but who really knows. Paradox has spend the majority of it's
early business development time selling overseas where no one has an
established foothold like the Ademcos of the world do in the USA. They only
now are starting to penetrate the established US market where competition is
stiff, and I gather their growth is slow.

Small wonder turning down business, then again it could be due to demand

Anyway, the end result is that ADT sales staff routinely tell clients that
the equipment is junk, and supposedly won't deal with it at all. This could
be due to hard feelings, but is more likely based on early experience they
had with pre 2.0 versions of the Esprit panels (which were junk, pure and
simple..). However, since I still have 10 Paradox panels monitored on ADT's
station, I do know they will monitor it (and why wouldn't they after
all....)

It also could be they don't want to deal with it and I can't blame them, not
because of the equipment quality but because its another panel to provide
support for

And its hard enough dealing with whats out there now considering what ADT
monitors which is everything

Paradox has only pulled one pure stupid move that I know of. Some years ago,
they produced a version of the Esprit panel which after one week in service,
could never be reprogrammed with any other receiver number. This was to
cater to several large mass marketers in the Montreal area. I have to wonder
how these customers are handling the 10 digit dialing that is going to be
mandatory sometime soon (guys, if you see these panels, simply change the
main eeprom for a later one from a scrap board, and the problem will
disappear)

Lol sounds like a NESS panel I know of however if it is what a particular
customer wanted then it's not stupid in my opinion.

IMO, the Magellan is simply their move to equal the competition in regards
to having a mass marketing panel available.

RHC

Exactly! For the mass marketer they apparently haven't sold out for

Now IF someone like ADT started using that panel would you change to
something else since Paradox has apparently "sold out"? No of course not.
Choose the panel based on what you think of it not who else is buying them

I mean no offense by this but I think sometimes your dislike for large
companies like ADT sometimes colors (sorry I mean colours ) some of your
opinions

 

[Mark Leuck]

Careful, Napco makes a version of the GEM-P800 just for ADT, I hope they
don't put up a web page like Honeywell....

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Agreed ! I do have to watch what I think and say, to make sure that my
opinions are not unduly coloured by my dislike for the ADT's of the world.
It's called prejudice, or bias, and unfortunately affects us all in some way
or another. For each of us, it's something different, and it has to be
guarded against at all times. Left to grow unchecked, such biases can lead
to all sorts of social ills and injustices, and especially so when they
occur within large groups of people.

It's not my dislike for large companies (hell, I worked for one for 27
years), it's my dislike of companies that charge too much and give too
little in return; those who do nothing but sell shitty systems for the long
term contracts; those who care nothing about REAL customer service; those
who make us all look like second rate opportunists.

I take no offence; thanks for the "heads up"....however, the story about
Paradox I heard from a very reliable source some years ago. I do think it is
true; however, considering my feelings about ADT, I hope I haven't
unknowingly embellished it some over the years....

RHC

 

[Mark Leuck]

Agreed ! I do have to watch what I think and say, to make sure that my
opinions are not unduly coloured by my dislike for the ADT's of the world.
It's called prejudice, or bias, and unfortunately affects us all in some way
or another. For each of us, it's something different, and it has to be
guarded against at all times. Left to grow unchecked, such biases can lead
to all sorts of social ills and injustices, and especially so when they
occur within large groups of people.

It's not my dislike for large companies (hell, I worked for one for 27
years), it's my dislike of companies that charge too much and give too
little in return; those who do nothing but sell shitty systems for the long
term contracts; those who care nothing about REAL customer service; those
who make us all look like second rate opportunists.

I take no offence; thanks for the "heads up"....however, the story about
Paradox I heard from a very reliable source some years ago. I do think it is
true; however, considering my feelings about ADT, I hope I haven't
unknowingly embellished it some over the years....

RHC

I mis-typed in my reply

"Small wonder turning down business, then again it could be due to demand"

I meant to say

"Small wonder turning down business, then again it could be due to supply"

I didn't want you to think I was slamming the product.

 

[Matt Ion]

BTW, Montreal is a beautiful city, full of French culture, fine restaurants,
beautiful women, and generally friendly people. You can walk the streets at
night without taking your life in your hands as well. No....Detroit and
Chicago are far more "godforsaken" when it comes right down to it.....

Yabbut... it's in EASTERN Canada. And it's all full of those
bastardized-French-language loonies

(I'll agree with you about the scenery tho... both types


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0545-2, 11/11/2005
Tested on: 11/13/2005 10:29:59 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

 

[Matt Ion]

petem wrote:

Not a big deal to them, I'm sure - our cost on them is normally around

I can say that Stephane Racicot is very effective and a man with a lot of
knowledge..
got him to come on some job site with me, and beside being a good human
being with a pretty fun character,he know his job!

Yup, that's the guy I traded emails with. Told him if he was ever in
Vancouver, beers were on me


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0545-2, 11/11/2005
Tested on: 11/13/2005 10:35:17 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

 

[petem]

petem wrote:

Not a big deal to them, I'm sure - our cost on them is normally around

Yup, that's the guy I traded emails with. Told him if he was ever in
Vancouver, beers were on me

better be ready,he will surely take the offer!

 

[petem]

As far as Paradox not going to large mass marketers my guess is they don't
have the distribution channel but if you think about it why else would
they
have created the Magellan?

about 3 years ago,when our company started looking for a new partnership
,like the one we are talking about here,
paradox were in the list of constructor,we were with DSC,but we are not
anymore..

but paradox did try to push there way into the company...

 

[petem]

Yabbut... it's in EASTERN Canada. And it's all full of those
bastardized-French-language loonies

(I'll agree with you about the scenery tho... both types

Matt next time I go to see our division in Surrey I will show you what is a
bastard!!

No just joking...you know,you should stop listening to hockey night in
canada,and leave the bad comment of Cherry about the French,where they
belong..in the trash can...

By the way did you ever heard about Valley Alarm?they were in surrey...

 

[[email protected]]

Anybody recommend a good panel company?

Sure thing. Take a look at Napco Security. They make reliable
products. Their tech support is pretty good (waiting time used to be
long but it has dropped lately). Napco systems I installed more than
25 years ago are still working.

Forget DSC. I only carry their stuff for replacement parts these days.
I wouldn't recommend them for a new installation though.

Regards,
Robert L Bass
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com