Need advice for a simple circuit, please...

[mrclean]

Hello all,

I think I would like to use this valve (http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/1-4-12v-dc-electric-plastic-solenoid-valve/) to open and close 1/4" chemical lines using 12 volts or less since it will be powered by a marine battery. I have found this valve to use for my prototype, but I'm unsure how to hook it up. Do I need to use a relay or an "h" gate to open and close it?

I've been looking on the web, but the more I read, the more unsure I get as to what I need. I also see valves of this type that are "normally closed", (http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/1-4-12v-dc-electric-plastic-solenoid-valve/) but not sure if these would be better or require fewer components to operate.

The liquids are cleaning agents that range from alkaline to acid and they seriously affect the rubber gaskets, plastic and metals of the valves I currently use. So, I am looking to use inexpensive valves since they will probably need to be replaced once or twice a year. I would only need each valve to be open for roughly 3 to 5 minutes at a time to disperse each liquid, so maybe a "normally closed" is the type of valve I need. I'm not sure. Don't NC valves need constant power to keep them open? Does this require a special circuit so that I don't have to "hold" the button "on" while dispersing these fluids?

And finally, how would I set this up so that I can switch chemicals or combine chemicals from a distance with a remote control? How can I get my remote to open each valve (4 - 6 valves total) with one button and then close the valve with a different button so that I can actually know if it's open or closed. Is this a 4 to 6 channel operation? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated and thank you for your time and expertise.

Totally confused and frustrated.

 

[davenn]

hi there
welcome to EP

I think I would like to use this valve (http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/1-4-12v-dc-electric-plastic-solenoid-valve/) to open and close 1/4" chemical lines using 12 volts or less since it will be powered by a marine battery. I have found this valve to use for my prototype, but I'm unsure how to hook it up. Do I need to use a relay or an "h" gate to open and close it?

did you read the description in the link you provided ??

Model RSC-2 of our plastic valve line is a two-way, direct acting valve with a normally closed operating position. This means that there are two ports in which media flows, the valve will open when energized and allow media to pass through. Taking the energy away from the valve will close it and stop the flow. It works across various media such as water, air other low viscosity fluids.

The port size is 1/4” inch female NPT threaded. The orifice size is 2.5mm and CV value is 0.21. It can withstand pressure up to 115 psi (8 bar) and temperatures as low as -5 C and as high as 90 C. The seal material is NBR (Buna-N) or Nitrile Butadiene Rubber.

This specific plastic valve has a 12 Volt DC coil with a voltage range that is -+ 10. The coil head is fitted with a 10’’ wire lead that can easily be connected with your own choice of terminals. The top of the coil features a label that indicates the valve type and specifications. Its response time is very low; in fact, it acts in less than one second, making it a great choice for all types of applications.

 

[hevans1944]

And finally, how would I set this up so that I can switch chemicals or combine chemicals from a distance with a remote control? How can I get my remote to open each valve (4 - 6 valves total) with one button and then close the valve with a different button so that I can actually know if it's open or closed. Is this a 4 to 6 channel operation?

You will need to connect all your valve outputs to a common manifold and arrange to purge the manifold between substances. You need to especially avoid mixing acidic and alkaline fluids because of the (usually) violent chemical reactions that results. That means that a purging fluid, such as de-ionized water, must be connected to a valve connected to the manifold, and another valve connected to the manifold and leading to a drain reservoir must be open during the purging cycle. Both of these valves will operate at the same time with the same control signal. After purging, you can then select which other valves connected to the manifold to open.

There are numerous wireless remote relays, operated by buttons on a key-fob, available from eBay retailers. Let Google be your friend to help find them. More than simple button pressed = open valve and button released = closed valve will require some logic, usually implemented with a microprocessor or, if you are really old school, discrete digital logic.

 

[mrclean]

First, WOW. I did not expect such a fast response.

Second, I would like to apologize to you, Mr. Davenn for wasting your valuable time with a wrong/bad link which is entirely my fault.

I've looked at way too many valves in the last few days and this is one that I meant to link to:
http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/1-2-12-volt-dc-latching-electric-solenoid-valve/

I emailed the company and asked them what kind of controlling device I would need to operate this valve, but they said they couldn't tell me. They only sell the parts. I think this is when I came across the "h" gate circuit but I'm not sure if this is what I need to open and close this valve.

I've been seeing a lot of the "normally closed" and "normally open" valves, so I was wondering if these types of valves would reduce the number of components I would need to make this work. Aren't they supposed to be power on and power off, to make them work? So, no "h" gate, right?

But because I want to operate these valves with a remote, this is where it got thick and my head started spinning; how do you turn on the power to a "normally closed" valve and keep it open (keeping it energized) without having to hold down the "on" button of the remote
the entire time that I need soap? Is there a type of circuit that keeps the power on to the valve with one press of the button? It takes two hands to apply the detergent, one to hold the applicator gun and one to hold the hose, so turning it on and being hands free is important.

I really appreciate you taking the time to look at my situation, Mr. Davenn. I know this may all seem quite simple and elementary to you, but that's why you're the moderator and I'm asking dumb questions. Its almost stressful for me, (seems like a lot of dots to connect) and I'm not sure if I'm even asking the right questions or using the right terms, but I'm assuming these are just like brainteasers to you guys. So thank you very much for your time, Mr Davenn.

Also, a big shout out to Mr. hevans1944. A real life Sheldon Cooper it seems. You are indeed correct in the purging of the lines. I generally use water, but the de-ionized water is something I will have to look up.

I appreciate you pointing out that Google is my friend. And indeed Google is, but part of my situation is asking the right questions and finding the right terms to use in explaining what I want without being longwinded. I know, I know, too late, right?

For instance, my normal operation would be to soak down plants with water, then turn on and apply soap to surface. I would then, hand scrub tough areas, re-apply soap, then turn off soap for clear water to rinse surface clean.

And here's where I didn't explain what I needed: during the soap application, I would need it to be hands free. I would like one button of the remote to open the valve and different button to close the valve. The main reason I say I need one button to turn on the valve and another to turn it off is because I will not be close enough to the tanks to know if the valve is on or off. I will be 200 feet or more away from the tanks and separate buttons would assure me that they are either on or off.

So, if I had 4 valves and want an "on" button for each one and an "off" button for each one, does this mean I need an 8 channel remote control? And since the remote control is most likely a low
powered device, don't I need a relay to connect the 12 volt power to each valve? Does that mean I need 8 relays, one for each button?

I hope that's right.

Thank you both very much, for your input and your fast reply time
Mr. haven1944 and Mr. Davenn. I eagerly await your response!

 

[davenn]

Second, I would like to apologize to you, Mr. Davenn for wasting your valuable time with a wrong/bad link which is entirely my fault.

no probs

I've looked at way too many valves in the last few days and this is one that I meant to link to:
http://www.electricsolenoidvalves.com/1-2-12-volt-dc-latching-electric-solenoid-valve/

OK this one is different from your other one you initially listed

this is what the data sheet, that you linked to, says .....

Function:

The latching valve works with a short pulse of energy (50 ms) that will open the valve and keep it open until the polarity is reversed, closing the valve.

• Valve opens with quick positive pulse (red wire to "+" & black wire to "-")
• Valve closes with quick reverse pulse (red wire to "-" & black wire to "+")
• Valve stays in position with no additional power being applied

Aren't they supposed to be power on and power off, to make them work? So, no "h" gate, right?

not for this one ... see above datasheet quote

But because I want to operate these valves with a remote, this is where it got thick and my head started spinning; how do you turn on the power to a "normally closed" valve and keep it open (keeping it energized) without having to hold down the "on" button of the remote
the entire time that I need soap? Is there a type of circuit that keeps the power on to the valve with one press of the button?

again, you don't have to, see above quote

So, if I had 4 valves and want an "on" button for each one and an "off" button for each one, does this mean I need an 8 channel remote control? And since the remote control is most likely a low
powered device, don't I need a relay to connect the 12 volt power to each valve? Does that mean I need 8 relays, one for each button?

not quite
just one button for each, but at the remote receive end of the link, the electronics needs to be able to reverse the polarity of the pulse going to the solenoid with each push of a button
I would have to sit and think about that and how to do it
in the mean time, some else may come up with a circuit idea for it


Dave

 

[mrclean]

Thank you very much for pointing those things out, Dave.
It seems the more specs I read, the more I began confusing
them with each other. The only reason I found this link was
because it was on my browser history.

So, if I'm reading this right, you're pointing out to me that I
only need to supply a 12 volt pulse to either wire and I can
make this valve open or close, right?

Ok, it sounds like I got lucky and found a motorized valve
that does not require a relay or any other strange circuit
to make the valves function. And as I mentioned, I do want
to use a remote control to operate these valves.

I found an 8 channel remote with 8 buttons, that I'm hoping
I can I wire it up one set of buttons to open certain valves
and another set to close those valves.

Here is the remote I was looking at:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-8CH-...446609?hash=item4891f5be11:g:-v0AAOSwGtRXxE~i
Do you think this remote control switch will work with these valves?

When I look at the specs, it states the remote has a "working" voltage
of 12 volts and the control switch has a 12 volt "operating" voltage.
Google does not seem to explain these terms clearly or at least as
they pertain to this remote control switch. Does this mean there is a
full 12 volts going THRU the control switch TO the valves or that the
control switch NEEDS 12 volts to operate?

I haven't a clue as to how program this remote and when they get
back from their New Year celebrations, maybe they can explain to
me what "non-lock, self-lock and inter-lock" means. I hope to keep
the remote operation simple as I mentioned above, maybe using
odd numbered buttons to open the valves and the even numbered
buttons to close the valves.

So, as you can see, I'm as confused as can be. But with you pointing
out what I must have glazed over last night, its hard to believe it could
actually be this simple; a motorized valve and a remote controlled switch?

Thanks a lot, Dave! I really appreciate you helping me with this.
Once I get this going, I will be happy to compensate you for your
time and help. I only have google and a wife that knows even less
than I do about this, (if you can believe that). So, I guess I really
just have google because none of my friends know what the heck
I'm talking about.

Have a good night Dave and thanks again.

 

[mrclean]

Real quick, Dave.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12VDC-DPDT-Relay-Module-Polarity-reversal-switch-Board-for-Arduino-UNO-DUE-MEGA/282095180429?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=d523f06b2d0e48b9b32bc4cf0bf6a39f&pid=100338&rk=19&rkt=21&sd=271968911625
Would this little device reverse the polarity automatically
each time the valve is opened? It looks like it will going
by "application example no. 2". But I couldn't swear by it.

Now, if I can use this, does this mean I can use a remote
with only 4 buttons (one for each valve) to open and close
the valve like this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-4CH-...a7262ad&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=311686446609

Please let me know what you think. At your leisure, of course.
I know you have a life too.

Thanks, Dave