Most awful hack job, but my kid likes it

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

s

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:41:04 -0800,


What should be defended is

1) The right to use drugs (for adults who know the consequences of their
actions)

I disagree. I also don't think people should have the right to fire a
firearm indiscriminately in a crowd.

I have been the victim of one of these people, via a burglary that might not
have occurred had this individual not been a drug addict. My loss was
severe, and not insured. 28 years of mementos from my life with Susan
were taken, never to be returned. These people are not victims of a
disease, they chose to use drugs, secure in the knowledge that not one
person has been known to improve their quality of life with drugs, but many
have died as a result. Go beyond that----what kind of example are these
people setting for children? Assuming you have "young-uns", how would
you feel if you found them with needles sticking in their arms?

2) The right of everybody to stay unmolested by the effects of drug
usage.

Can't have it both ways, can you.. If a person does drugs, it's usually
just a matter of time until their habit is beyond their means and they
resort to crime. Many also operate their vehicles while under the
influence.

I'm totally against the use of drugs, and feel it is not the *right* of
anyone to use and abuse them. Doing so is almost NEVER without cost to
humanity-------so in a sense, the right of a person to do something stupid
doesn't override the rights of others to not have something stupid committed
against them. I am not sympathetic towards drug users.

Harold

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

I disagree. I also don't think people should have the right to fire a
firearm indiscriminately in a crowd.

Here, you're absolutely wrong. I have the right, given to me by my
creator, whether random chance or cosmic leviathan (or my Dad and Mom),
to do whatever with my own body that I wish to do.

I do _not_ have the right, however, to adversely affect you physically,
which is what bullets do. And if you stay the **** out of my office,
you can refraining from inflicting my smoke on yourself.

Ideologue.

Feh,
Rich

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

Not exactly. I think it's safe to say that we that choose not to smoke
(I still enjoy the occasional cigar, and even light a pipe on occasion)
would like to live smoke free.

You fucking hypocrite. _You_ claim you want a "smoke-free" world, while
you "enjoy the occasional cigar, and ... a pipe..."

**** off and die.

Rich

 

[Robert Latest]

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:20:24 -0800,

I disagree. I also don't think people should have the right to fire a
firearm indiscriminately in a crowd.

I have been the victim of one of these people, via a burglary that might not
have occurred had this individual not been a drug addict.

That is covered under emission, see 2).

Can't have it both ways, can you.. If a person does drugs, it's usually
just a matter of time until their habit is beyond their means and they
resort to crime.

And why is that? Because drugs are illegal, and therefore only available
at high prices on the black market. Legalize drugs and dry out the
crime.

The alcohol prohibition didn't stop alcoholism. It just created a huge
criminal industry, which promptly ceased to exist when alcohol became
legal.

Many also operate their vehicles while under the
influence.

That's bad, and I can's see how that can be avoided.

I'm totally against the use of drugs, and feel it is not the *right* of
anyone to use and abuse them.

Well, I think this is a very limited worldview, although I can
understand how you arrived at it given your personal experience with
what I would call a result of drug illegalization, not of drug
consumption.

I am not sympathetic towards drug users.

That much is clear.

robert

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

Here, you're absolutely wrong. I have the right, given to me by my
creator, whether random chance or cosmic leviathan (or my Dad and Mom),
to do whatever with my own body that I wish to do.

Seeing as you wish to reduce this to insults, MORON, your right to do with
your body ends when *your body* is functioning irratiionally and you kill me
with your car, which you shouldn't have been driving because of your altered
state. Don't tell me I'm wrong when you ignore the facts.

I do _not_ have the right, however, to adversely affect you physically,
which is what bullets do. And if you stay the **** out of my office,
you can refraining from inflicting my smoke on yourself.

When did you notice me in your office?

Ideologue.

Idiot.

Harold

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:20:24 -0800,


That is covered under emission, see 2).


And why is that? Because drugs are illegal, and therefore only available
at high prices on the black market. Legalize drugs and dry out the
crime.

The alcohol prohibition didn't stop alcoholism. It just created a huge
criminal industry, which promptly ceased to exist when alcohol became
legal.


That's bad, and I can's see how that can be avoided.


Well, I think this is a very limited worldview, although I can
understand how you arrived at it given your personal experience with
what I would call a result of drug illegalization, not of drug
consumption.


That much is clear.

robert

I don't mean to sound like an ass, Robert, it's just that I've never seen
one person benefit from drug use, and have seen many hit the
bottom---including an attorney, who lost his marriage and over $2 million
due to cocaine abuse. I know that to be true, his ex is married to one of
my close friends.

What has happened to us, that we can't find pleasure in the good things in
life? Mind you, I'm not coming at you from a religious perspective. I
consider that just another narcotic. I'm simply saying that I've enjoyed
life at its fullest when I've had a clear head and mind. I don't need
anything to boost me along, and pity those that do. They are truly
missing out on life's real pleasures.

Be well,

Harold

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

You fucking hypocrite. _You_ claim you want a "smoke-free" world, while
you "enjoy the occasional cigar, and ... a pipe..."

**** off and die.

Rich

Like you, I'm entitled to do as I please in my own home and shop. I do not
do so in public, nor do I feel that the public must endure my abuse. Yes,
I want a smoke free environment. I don't take pleasure from smelling
other's smoke while I dine. That's why I don't smoke a cigar in public.
Grow up.

I'm also adult enought to have a civil conversation with others, a quality
you seem to lack. Or is that how you behave when you have egg on your face?
Sheesh! What a moron.

Harold

 

[Gunner]

Like you, I'm entitled to do as I please in my own home and shop. I do not
do so in public, nor do I feel that the public must endure my abuse. Yes,
I want a smoke free environment. I don't take pleasure from smelling
other's smoke while I dine. That's why I don't smoke a cigar in public.
Grow up.

I'm also adult enought to have a civil conversation with others, a quality
you seem to lack. Or is that how you behave when you have egg on your face?
Sheesh! What a moron.

Harold

Im curious Harold..what all electric vehicle do you drive?

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

Im curious Harold..what all electric vehicle do you drive?

Gunner

Sorry to report, I don't. I drive two of those Cummins diesels that smell
so good.

Harold

 

[Charlie Edmondson]

Robert Latest wrote:

And why is that? Because drugs are illegal, and therefore only available
at high prices on the black market. Legalize drugs and dry out the
crime.

The alcohol prohibition didn't stop alcoholism. It just created a huge
criminal industry, which promptly ceased to exist when alcohol became
legal.

Yep, it ended the criminal industry, but it didn't stop (or even slow)
alcoholism, which still kills or maims thousands every year. So, we lowered
one problem, but didn't solve the root problem.

That's bad, and I can's see how that can be avoided.




Well, I think this is a very limited worldview, although I can
understand how you arrived at it given your personal experience with
what I would call a result of drug illegalization, not of drug
consumption.

Nope, the problem is in the human animal. While there is a small
minority of folks who are able to 'handle' drug use, most of us poor
schmucks soon find ourselves using more and more of them, or using them
inappopriately, until one of two things happen: We kill or hurt
ourselves or someone else, or we wise up and completely stop using them.
That is reality, as much as some wish (or deny) that it is.

Charlie

 

[Gunner Asch]

Sorry to report, I don't. I drive two of those Cummins diesels that smell
so good.

Harold

So then you have no problem with polluting the air that I breath?
And the difference between your secondhand smoke and mine is what
again?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:54:37 -0800, "Harold and Susan Vordos"

So then you have no problem with polluting the air that I breath?
And the difference between your secondhand smoke and mine is what
again?

Gunner

Cute, Gunner, and maybe even clever, but I really do expect more from you
than that. For one, as a person that I hold in high regard, your
smoking is killing you-----as the doctors have already told you. You do
remember your incident of a year ago, yes?

The subject at hand. The harsh reality is I must be able to travel, as must
you. I drive about 26 miles, one way, to town, which I do once per week.
My truck, the '94 Dodge Cummins, delivers right at 22 MPG. Pretty damned
good for a 3/4 ton vehicle. We generally haul back the construction items
we need for our project, do our weekly shopping, and maybe stop for a
burger. We're pretty low key people, and don't need luxuries to make us
happy. From that, you can deduct that, at least to us, driving is a
necessity.

You, on the other hand, smoke cigarettes that are consuming your income at
an unreasonable rate, injuring your health in the bargain. I'm not sure I
can see a connection between your habit, something that has no redeeming
value, and my once per week trip to town. Beyond that, you may just be
depriving me of a friend (you) by being stupid, paying good money buying
tobacco to destroy your health. I'd rather have you around for a long
time. Sorry!

Susan's father died at age 47, when she was 5. He was a smoker, and died
of cancer of the lung.
Susan's brother was buried in July, age 58, from cancer of the liver, having
carried hepatitis C for years. He had quit smoking a year ago or so, so
that's not likely a connection.
Paul Desmond, likely the finest alto sax man to have lived in my time, died
at age 52. He was a chain smoker. I would have enjoyed hearing from him
for many more years. Yeah, I'm selfish like that.

Get it, Gunner? I'm concerned, not only for me, but for you. You don't
have to smoke, you choose to. I must drive to town, at least infrequently.

Be well,

Harold

 

[Gunner Asch]

Cute, Gunner, and maybe even clever, but I really do expect more from you
than that. For one, as a person that I hold in high regard, your
smoking is killing you-----as the doctors have already told you. You do
remember your incident of a year ago, yes?

The subject at hand. The harsh reality is I must be able to travel, as must
you. I drive about 26 miles, one way, to town, which I do once per week.
My truck, the '94 Dodge Cummins, delivers right at 22 MPG. Pretty damned
good for a 3/4 ton vehicle. We generally haul back the construction items
we need for our project, do our weekly shopping, and maybe stop for a
burger. We're pretty low key people, and don't need luxuries to make us
happy. From that, you can deduct that, at least to us, driving is a
necessity.

You, on the other hand, smoke cigarettes that are consuming your income at
an unreasonable rate, injuring your health in the bargain. I'm not sure I
can see a connection between your habit, something that has no redeeming
value, and my once per week trip to town. Beyond that, you may just be
depriving me of a friend (you) by being stupid, paying good money buying
tobacco to destroy your health. I'd rather have you around for a long
time. Sorry!

Susan's father died at age 47, when she was 5. He was a smoker, and died
of cancer of the lung.
Susan's brother was buried in July, age 58, from cancer of the liver, having
carried hepatitis C for years. He had quit smoking a year ago or so, so
that's not likely a connection.
Paul Desmond, likely the finest alto sax man to have lived in my time, died
at age 52. He was a chain smoker. I would have enjoyed hearing from him
for many more years. Yeah, I'm selfish like that.

Get it, Gunner? I'm concerned, not only for me, but for you. You don't
have to smoke, you choose to. I must drive to town, at least infrequently.

Be well,

Harold

While I deeply appreciate your concern about my health (and Im doing
rather well in minimizing my smoking, though still yet unable to quit
completly), the comment I made was germane to your comments about
other people messing up your air. While rightious indignation about
the tiny amounts of nastys that cigarette smoke contains is
interesting...bragging about owning and operating a monster polluter
of the air, ground and water in the next statement is hardly something
condusive to basing your moral high ground on.
<G>

Just holding your feet to the fire, old friend

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

 

[Harold and Susan Vordos]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 01:06:47 -0800, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
snip---

While I deeply appreciate your concern about my health (and Im doing
rather well in minimizing my smoking, though still yet unable to quit
completly), the comment I made was germane to your comments about
other people messing up your air. While rightious indignation about
the tiny amounts of nastys that cigarette smoke contains is
interesting...bragging about owning and operating a monster polluter
of the air, ground and water in the next statement is hardly something
condusive to basing your moral high ground on.
<G>

Just holding your feet to the fire, old friend

Gunner

All likely true, but a poor *smoke* screen for the topic at hand. I think
both of us would agree, in the course of living our lives, there are some
risks. It's up to us to determine those that are a necessity, and those
that can be avoided. If I must travel, which I must, I try to do it as
economically and safely as possible, keeping in mind that my purpose in
doing so must be fulfilled. Thus, I'm trapped in a world where I must own a
small truck. I've yet to find a way to haul 12' 2 x 4's in a car without
limiting the number, or causing considerable damage to the vehicle, for
example. Mind you, I'm not bragging because it's a smoke belching,
polluting device, but more so because it provides considerably more
performance and economy than do its counterparts, gas powered engines. My
second truck replaced one that was yielding scarcely more than 10 MPG.
Fewer pollutants per mile. When I drive it, that is.

One of the things I've done of late is not travel. I drive only when I
must, so my vehicles stay in the garage. One of them, purchased new in '99,
has only 13,000 miles on it. The other gets started usually only once per
week. Seriously! The one with 13,000 miles I use almost exclusively for
travel, at which time I drag a small travel trailer. Motels don't suit my
needs. The trailer has not been licensed for the current year, and the
truck hasn't left the garage in the past year save for once, when it was
used to haul building supplies. The truck in question has a 10' enclosed
box, so it's great for keeping things out of the weather, a serious
consideration when one lives where it rains 60"/year. So then, like you and
your smoking, I'm doing my best to "cut down". I'll eliminate my share of
the pollution only by stopping driving. I can't help but think it's the
same with you and your smokes. Yet I sympathize. I do understand it's
not easy to quit. I know folks that have tried many times, with no joy.

Electric vehicles do not eliminate pollutants. They do, however, lower them,
and create them at a different location, sort of out of sight, out of mind.
You do realize that much of the power generated is done by burning coal.
Only not driving eliminates pollutants.

By contrast, my father, who had smoked for over thirty years, pulled a pack
out of his pocket one day, looked at them., and tossed them out the window,
never to touch them again. He made a decision that day, and it was to quit.
He did.

You can do it, Gunner. You haven't made the decision to do so yet. I'm
confident that's true----you have too strong of a personality to have it not
be so. And I'm surprised, considering your survivalist instincts and
training.

I accept you, smokes or not. Not picking on you , old friend. Just
holding your feet to the fire as well. Not because of my moral high
ground, nor from my religious views, which do not exist. It's only because
I care. I worry.

I think I said that before.

Harold

 

[Richard Henry]

While I deeply appreciate your concern about my health (and Im doing
rather well in minimizing my smoking, though still yet unable to quit
completly), the comment I made was germane to your comments about
other people messing up your air. While rightious indignation about
the tiny amounts of nastys that cigarette smoke contains is
interesting...bragging about owning and operating a monster polluter
of the air, ground and water in the next statement is hardly something
condusive to basing your moral high ground on.
<G>

Just holding your feet to the fire, old friend

Just curious - when you are smoking outside in a light breeze, do you hold
the cigarette so the smoke off the hot end blows in your face?

 

[Gunner Asch]

Just curious - when you are smoking outside in a light breeze, do you hold
the cigarette so the smoke off the hot end blows in your face?

Of course. Just like you run a flex line from your tail pipe into the
cabin of your vehicle.

Oh..and I didnt inhale.

Chuckle

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

 

[Rich, Under the Affluence]

Just curious - when you are smoking outside in a light breeze, do you hold
the cigarette so the smoke off the hot end blows in your face?

Not necessarily. But if I did, would that give you some sort of
perverse satisfaction, like enacting your little revenge fantasy
by proxy?

And, in kind, when you start your car, do you go and joyously inhale
the exhaust fumes just to prove how self-righteous you are?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Richard Henry]

Not necessarily. But if I did, would that give you some sort of
perverse satisfaction, like enacting your little revenge fantasy
by proxy?

No, but I have noticed that smokers don't hold their cigarettes so the smoke
from the hot end doesn't blow in other people's faces.

And, in kind, when you start your car, do you go and joyously inhale
the exhaust fumes just to prove how self-righteous you are?

You really don't get it, do you?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus1740


He will become an accountant and very, very rich. But dull.(;-)

Or an IC designer, and an unbearable boor.

 

[Richard the Dreaded Libertarian]

No, but I have noticed that smokers don't hold their cigarettes so the
smoke from the hot end doesn't blow in other people's faces.

As a matter of fact, I do.

But I guess all us niggers look alike to you.

You really don't get it, do you?

Oh, I got it a long, long time ago.

Want some?

Thanks!
Rich