That is also the us price from brunswick.. monopoly and all that you know
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Is it possible to find serial output if you know all parts on a PCB?
- Thread starter jimmydanny
- Start date
Yeah, I've been, and still am laying in my bed sick... GPG, I met two kiwis on a train trip here in Norway some months ago, had a Norwegian exchange thingy with farms going on way back, and was visiting him now... Funny you are helping me here and saying that lol!
Anyways, I don't know how this all would add up, say that you take pin 1 and 3, what would the outcome be in the serial com... I guess if I can somehow trace what goes where on the keyboard PCB, I can find out what part of the matrix is used, and I can give you the binary output from the KR9601 to the UART, atleast for some of the keys, and that would atleast be a start.
Is that an angle we could work with on this?
Anyways, I don't know how this all would add up, say that you take pin 1 and 3, what would the outcome be in the serial com... I guess if I can somehow trace what goes where on the keyboard PCB, I can find out what part of the matrix is used, and I can give you the binary output from the KR9601 to the UART, atleast for some of the keys, and that would atleast be a start.
Is that an angle we could work with on this?
The serial output might give the key used. The output of the encoder is 10 bit but if only the first 70 keys are (no shift or ctl) considered the first 2 bits are always 00 so the possibility of discarding them and using the remaining 8 bits as one data frame arises. need to sniff the data lines to find out.
http://www.eltima.com/products/serial-port-monitor/
https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/looking-for-serial-data-logger-suggestions.276244/
http://www.eltima.com/products/serial-port-monitor/
https://www.electronicspoint.com/threads/looking-for-serial-data-logger-suggestions.276244/
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The problem with that is that I don't have access to the keypad/board control station. I got to take pics of it, because the mechanic at that bowling alley is a nice guy and a friend. The owner, however... few people like him at all lol...
If I could sneak in there and connect a sniffer, I would do it, and then I wouldn't need to ask here tbh... I hoped there could be a way around it.
Is there no way to find out, if I find out what parts of the matrix is actually used by the keypads? It is my only angle except doing the analog relay controlled switch stuff, which is costly with a big C. Not as much as the HDLC interface PCBs, but still costly.
If I could sneak in there and connect a sniffer, I would do it, and then I wouldn't need to ask here tbh... I hoped there could be a way around it.
Is there no way to find out, if I find out what parts of the matrix is actually used by the keypads? It is my only angle except doing the analog relay controlled switch stuff, which is costly with a big C. Not as much as the HDLC interface PCBs, but still costly.
Hmm, is there any way i can find out this without the original Player Control Station then?
Upgrade... What I am trying to replace, or upgrade, is a piece of PCB that went out of production in around 2002. The serial com protocols or anything is unused by Brunswick since then, and it will ever ever see use again.
So I am trying to use something that isn't used and never will be again except by the few lucky who actually had the Player Control Station.
So I am trying to use something that isn't used and never will be again except by the few lucky who actually had the Player Control Station.
And no, no bit rate yet... I don't have the stupid USB-RS485 converter yet, I need to find one for an okay price that can take full duplex 485, so I don't have to start changing up things
The first of my posts was just me saying it is retarded that Brunswick keep it to themselves when it is totally unused. If they just released it it would change a fair bit for many bowlers and proprietors of alleys around the world.
As for the USB-serial, I want a proper one, and 89$ is not something I got lying around here, sadly. But I might just order one today, as it got 232, 422 and 485, so I can use it at many occasions both at work and privately.
Let me add this project is a private project of mine for now, so all expenses are on me.
If I find useful info on the PCB images and with the analyzer, that will change.
Same if I can get hold of one for just 1 minute, I will be able to get my boss into this
So I am nagging and digging because this is a PCB I have seen one place in all of Norway, and I have bowled for 8 years, so I've seen a lot of alleys.
And if I so unlucky that I can't sniff the coms on that PCB that I got the pictures of, all I got left is to try is to get help from people like you guys, and then: trial and error and luck.
And I know luck isn't something I'm known for.. So far... So I am not putting my money on luck just yet lol!
As for the USB-serial, I want a proper one, and 89$ is not something I got lying around here, sadly. But I might just order one today, as it got 232, 422 and 485, so I can use it at many occasions both at work and privately.
Let me add this project is a private project of mine for now, so all expenses are on me.
If I find useful info on the PCB images and with the analyzer, that will change.
Same if I can get hold of one for just 1 minute, I will be able to get my boss into this
So I am nagging and digging because this is a PCB I have seen one place in all of Norway, and I have bowled for 8 years, so I've seen a lot of alleys.
And if I so unlucky that I can't sniff the coms on that PCB that I got the pictures of, all I got left is to try is to get help from people like you guys, and then: trial and error and luck.
And I know luck isn't something I'm known for.. So far... So I am not putting my money on luck just yet lol!
I was thinking a bit, while waiting for the USB-RSx converter... As I might have said, this system currently uses the two TX wires to send the data to the scoring system, as the proper com out got some wacked properitary protocol... If we get one of the converter cards, and I analyze the input and outputs of it all over the course of.. A day or a week, whatever is needed, wouldn't some software converting be possible, either with a PC or with an Arduino or similar?
Okay, I got my serial analyzer now! I ran it on a lane, and tripped some pins to see what the analyzer software got out of it.
Struggled a bit finding a baud rate that gave me some useful info, and I thought since this is equipment with patents from 86 or something, it would be low... At 1200 I got different outputs for each of the pins I tried, and for the combos of these three pins.
Mark: This is the info the machine sends out to the Player Control Station. I take it this would have the same baud rate atleast. If the commands sent are the same... Who knows..
Anyways, I tried No parity, 8 bits, 2 stop bit, 1200 baud rate (and all up to 32k), and it seems like 1200 was the one that sent something I could interpret as usable info for you (and/or a computer).
Knocking over the 1 pin (leaving 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 2C 48 3E (these are on separate lines, so sent separately from the machine, but cba to type it like that, it is already past 12am here now).
Knocking over the 2 pin (leaving 1-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 59 48 3E
Knocking over the 3 pin (leaving 1-2-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 5A 48 3E
Knocking over the 1-2 combo (leaving 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 16 48 3E
Knocking over the 1-3 combo (leaving 2-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 2D 48 3E
Knocking over the 1-2-3 combo (leaving 4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 0B 48 3E
It also sends some command every 0.5 seconds or so (less than a second, but not sure how often, but can clearly see the RX marker blinking in the analyzer app), didn't write it down at 1200 baud, only at 32k which it started at as default, makes it useless I guess.
I will try a bit tomorrow, especially if you can make any sense out of this. There must be some laymans understandable logic in the values for combos... or so I hope!
Struggled a bit finding a baud rate that gave me some useful info, and I thought since this is equipment with patents from 86 or something, it would be low... At 1200 I got different outputs for each of the pins I tried, and for the combos of these three pins.
Mark: This is the info the machine sends out to the Player Control Station. I take it this would have the same baud rate atleast. If the commands sent are the same... Who knows..
Anyways, I tried No parity, 8 bits, 2 stop bit, 1200 baud rate (and all up to 32k), and it seems like 1200 was the one that sent something I could interpret as usable info for you (and/or a computer).
Knocking over the 1 pin (leaving 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 2C 48 3E (these are on separate lines, so sent separately from the machine, but cba to type it like that, it is already past 12am here now).
Knocking over the 2 pin (leaving 1-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 59 48 3E
Knocking over the 3 pin (leaving 1-2-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 5A 48 3E
Knocking over the 1-2 combo (leaving 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 16 48 3E
Knocking over the 1-3 combo (leaving 2-4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 2D 48 3E
Knocking over the 1-2-3 combo (leaving 4-5-6-7-8-9-10): 0B 48 3E
It also sends some command every 0.5 seconds or so (less than a second, but not sure how often, but can clearly see the RX marker blinking in the analyzer app), didn't write it down at 1200 baud, only at 32k which it started at as default, makes it useless I guess.
I will try a bit tomorrow, especially if you can make any sense out of this. There must be some laymans understandable logic in the values for combos... or so I hope!
Hmm, when I used my actual working eyes (who knew), the frequency of the crystal on the board is stated on it. So if that is the decider The clock is 4.9152 which is stated on the crystal and also in the datasheet for it.
That would be a baud rate of 78643.2, which I guess is 76800 in reality? In that case I was wrong about the old stuff with low baud rates...
I have to try that baud rate tomorrow and see what it gives me then I guess.
That would be a baud rate of 78643.2, which I guess is 76800 in reality? In that case I was wrong about the old stuff with low baud rates...
I have to try that baud rate tomorrow and see what it gives me then I guess.
There are several dividers on the board near the oscillator that divide the crystal down. The frequency will give 75, 150, 300, 600, 1200, 2400, etc. bps
Ah so I might have 1200bps even with that clock then? Aka I wasn't wrong when I saw that this data might be useful.
Using CommFronts analyzer and opto-isolated usb to 232/422/485.
Not exactly sure how I use the program yet, got a friends friends license to borrow... Have to see how and what, use some time learning all this lol.
Not exactly sure how I use the program yet, got a friends friends license to borrow... Have to see how and what, use some time learning all this lol.
Yeah I have no idea what I am doing lol! I am wondering if I can get hold of the original PCB and see what it sends out.. Depending on the baud rate I set it to, and assuming 8 bits, no parity, 2 stop bits is correct of course, I get either <SOH> <STX> <NUL> or <ACK> <CAN> <NUL> repeatedly from the machine... If I turn on both lanes it shuts up, so it looks almost like it is sending this awaiting the other lane to turn on. If I turn on lane 1 (what I stated I got from lane 2) I get something else, or atleast I am pretty sure I did.
I should probably get an oscilloscope for this to check the baud rate,
I should probably get an oscilloscope for this to check the baud rate,
