I hate imperial units

[Joerg]

Ouch! Mine is nailed in place. I simply pulled it all down,
filled the holes, stained and polyurethaned it, cut the bottoms to
size and put it all back up (pneumatic nailers are fantastic
things). I had to do the base molding anyway.



Our wood stove will drive us out of the house if it's above 0F, so
we only use it in Jan/Feb. On the coldest days the boiler, if run
without the wood stove, will run about a 50% duty cycle. I'd go
broke on propane here. I switched from oil to natural gas about
ten years ago.

We will never have natural gas out here so were are stuck with a
quasi-monopoly situation. They can pretty much charge what they want :-(

The coldest days here are -20F (nights have gotten down to -40).
:-(

Not much global warming, eh? We certainly don't have one here when I
look at our wood consumption over the years.

 

[Dave Farrance]

You have: 200 btu*in/(ft^2*hr*degF)
You want: W/m K
* 28.845578
/ 0.034667359

Interestingly, Google has a built-in calculator with units conversion
(try searching for '160 pounds * 4000 feet in Calories') but I couldn't
get it to parse the above.

As a general rule, to invoke Google's unit conversion, use spaces rather
than "*" and try spelling out the units if the abbreviation doesn't
work. For example, this works when put in Google's search box:

henrys gross slugs in stone grain barns per square faraday

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:


[...]

Our wood stove will drive us out of the house if it's above 0F, so
we only use it in Jan/Feb. On the coldest days the boiler, if run
without the wood stove, will run about a 50% duty cycle. I'd go
broke on propane here. I switched from oil to natural gas about
ten years ago.

Just a thought: Is it a modern EPA rated stove? If not maybe you could
consider one. Ours is a Quadrafire 3100 insert without catalytic
converter. We didn't want a converter because their insert modules wear
and are expensive. Plus they can take longer to "catch" and I find that
we can reach a smoke free burn faster with this secondary combustion stove.

We can throttle that stove down to around 10,000BTU/hr and still
maintain blue/white flames and no smoke from the chimney. On almond it
burns 4-5hrs and even after an overnight there is plenty of coals and
some heat left to get it going again in the morning.

 

[krw]

We will never have natural gas out here so were are stuck with a
quasi-monopoly situation. They can pretty much charge what they want :-(

Natural gas (at least distribution) is sorta a monopoly too; moreso
than oil or LP. We get ours from Canuckistan so it didn't spike
likely the gulf stuff last year.

Not much global warming, eh?

Well, 57F on Dec 14 isn't too bad! Two years ago we had 5'
of snow by now.

We certainly don't have one here when I
look at our wood consumption over the years.

Well, I still have 4/5s of a cord I bought five years ago. It's a
lot of work to fire up the wood stove if noone is going to be home
to tend it. Last year it didn't get cold enough to bother once.
While I'd like to burn the stuff up before we split, I don't want
cold.

 

[krw]

krw wrote:


[...]

Our wood stove will drive us out of the house if it's above 0F, so
we only use it in Jan/Feb. On the coldest days the boiler, if run
without the wood stove, will run about a 50% duty cycle. I'd go
broke on propane here. I switched from oil to natural gas about
ten years ago.

Just a thought: Is it a modern EPA rated stove?

Not sure what the "specs" are for "modern" or "EPA rated" are this
year, but it does have a secondary (catalytic?) combustion chamber.
It really needs a hot chimney to get the down-draft working to get
it all working (keep the "glass clean, etc.) together though. Once
the chimney is hot it can be throttled back, but the house is
already 110F. It also has a thermostatically controlled fan that
wraps around the secondary combustion chambers to blow that air
back into the room. The stove is built into the "wall" (really a
massive concrete block structure in the middle of the house with
the flues in tile/concrete blocks at each end.

If not maybe you could
consider one. Ours is a Quadrafire 3100 insert without catalytic
converter. We didn't want a converter because their insert modules wear
and are expensive. Plus they can take longer to "catch" and I find that
we can reach a smoke free burn faster with this secondary combustion stove.

It's not a fireplace. Most are a net-negative. This one seems to
be pretty efficient (can't light it unless it's COLD).

We can throttle that stove down to around 10,000BTU/hr and still
maintain blue/white flames and no smoke from the chimney. On almond it
burns 4-5hrs and even after an overnight there is plenty of coals and
some heat left to get it going again in the morning.

Once the chimney is hot I an throttle mine back too.
Unfortuneately, the house is unbearably hot by that time. Once it
dies down to embers (6 hours or so) I have to let it completely die
or the front "glass" is impossible to clean. The reverse draft on
the "glass" doesn't work after a point and it smokes up. Get the
hot again and it's a *MESS* to clean up.

 

[Joerg]

Natural gas (at least distribution) is sorta a monopoly too; moreso
than oil or LP. We get ours from Canuckistan so it didn't spike
likely the gulf stuff last year.

But it's regulated while propane doesn't seem to be. I am not a fan of a
lot of government intervention but for monopolistic energy situations
regulation needs to be in place or they'll have us over the barrel.

Well, 57F on Dec 14 isn't too bad! Two years ago we had 5'
of snow by now.




Well, I still have 4/5s of a cord I bought five years ago. It's a
lot of work to fire up the wood stove if noone is going to be home
to tend it. Last year it didn't get cold enough to bother once.
While I'd like to burn the stuff up before we split, I don't want
cold.

Ours can be up and running at the desired BTU/hr rate in under 1/2hr if
kindled right.

 

[Joerg]

krw wrote:


[...]

Our wood stove will drive us out of the house if it's above 0F, so
we only use it in Jan/Feb. On the coldest days the boiler, if run
without the wood stove, will run about a 50% duty cycle. I'd go
broke on propane here. I switched from oil to natural gas about
ten years ago.

Just a thought: Is it a modern EPA rated stove?

Not sure what the "specs" are for "modern" or "EPA rated" are this
year, but it does have a secondary (catalytic?) combustion chamber.
It really needs a hot chimney to get the down-draft working to get
it all working (keep the "glass clean, etc.) together though. Once
the chimney is hot it can be throttled back, but the house is
already 110F. It also has a thermostatically controlled fan that
wraps around the secondary combustion chambers to blow that air
back into the room. The stove is built into the "wall" (really a
massive concrete block structure in the middle of the house with
the flues in tile/concrete blocks at each end.

That stove may be oversized then. In our case I wish it would be a bit
larger because it's tough to keep the house at 70F when it's below
freezing or in a cold northern wind.

It's not a fireplace. Most are a net-negative. This one seems to
be pretty efficient (can't light it unless it's COLD).

Ours used to be fireplaces. Those are the pits and as you wrote they can
actually remove heat from the house. So we had inserts put in. Wood
stove upstairs, pellet stove downstairs.

Once the chimney is hot I an throttle mine back too.
Unfortuneately, the house is unbearably hot by that time. Once it
dies down to embers (6 hours or so) I have to let it completely die
or the front "glass" is impossible to clean. The reverse draft on
the "glass" doesn't work after a point and it smokes up. Get the
hot again and it's a *MESS* to clean up.

Then it is probably not a modern stove. Our glass never gets dirty.
After about 80-100 hours of operation there will be fine ash splatters
on the glass but they are really easy to wipe off after letting it cool
down. Even when burning rather sappy pine.

 

[krw]

But it's regulated while propane doesn't seem to be. I am not a fan of a
lot of government intervention but for monopolistic energy situations
regulation needs to be in place or they'll have us over the barrel.

Regulation is overrated. Aftar Katrina our gas rates spiked, even
though there is no connection between our gas supply and the gulf.
Energy costs/prices aren't local.

Ours can be up and running at the desired BTU/hr rate in under 1/2hr if
kindled right.

I can start it in a half hour easily enough. It has to stay
regulated/stoked until it's left to die completely then completely
cleaned or it's a total mess. 24 hours is about all I can get it
going for without a real mess (I like to sleep).

 

[krw]

krw wrote:


[...]


Our wood stove will drive us out of the house if it's above 0F, so
we only use it in Jan/Feb. On the coldest days the boiler, if run
without the wood stove, will run about a 50% duty cycle. I'd go
broke on propane here. I switched from oil to natural gas about
ten years ago.


Just a thought: Is it a modern EPA rated stove?

Not sure what the "specs" are for "modern" or "EPA rated" are this
year, but it does have a secondary (catalytic?) combustion chamber.
It really needs a hot chimney to get the down-draft working to get
it all working (keep the "glass clean, etc.) together though. Once
the chimney is hot it can be throttled back, but the house is
already 110F. It also has a thermostatically controlled fan that
wraps around the secondary combustion chambers to blow that air
back into the room. The stove is built into the "wall" (really a
massive concrete block structure in the middle of the house with
the flues in tile/concrete blocks at each end.

That stove may be oversized then. In our case I wish it would be a bit
larger because it's tough to keep the house at 70F when it's below
freezing or in a cold northern wind.

The firebox is too small, IMO. If I could keep it (well) lit for
eight hours I might be able to get two days out of it but I do like
to sleep too. The issue is getting the chimney hot enough to get
the draft working well enough to make sure the "glass" stays clear.
The start-up puts out a huge amount of heat.

The start-up is enough to heat the house to an uncomfortable level
unless it's *cold*. Note that we keep the house in the mid 60s and
upper 50s at night. I don't like hot when I'm sleeping.

Ours used to be fireplaces. Those are the pits and as you wrote they can
actually remove heat from the house. So we had inserts put in. Wood
stove upstairs, pellet stove downstairs.

Have you looked into the corn stoves? They look quite interesting.
AISI, wood pellets are a good idea as long as there is more waste
wood than demand for pellets. After that it's more expensive than
cut and split wood, which is more expensive than most other heat
sources.

Then it is probably not a modern stove. Our glass never gets dirty.

It gets filthy when the fire dies. The draft isn't enough to
reverse the flow (the draft across the "glass" is from the top) and
the fire smokes some. If the smudge/coke isn't cleaned when it's
cold, forget it! What a PITA!

After about 80-100 hours of operation there will be fine ash splatters
on the glass but they are really easy to wipe off after letting it cool
down. Even when burning rather sappy pine.

Our stove is likely the original (20 YO). It's an "Elmira", which
is now out of business. It's a fantastic backup heat source (kinda
important here) and works well when it's cold. It looks like
another hot winter though.

 

[Joerg]

Regulation is overrated. Aftar Katrina our gas rates spiked, even
though there is no connection between our gas supply and the gulf.
Energy costs/prices aren't local.




I can start it in a half hour easily enough. It has to stay
regulated/stoked until it's left to die completely then completely
cleaned or it's a total mess. 24 hours is about all I can get it
going for without a real mess (I like to sleep).

Then it must be an old stove. Some of our neighbors have those and the
glass looks like it was painted with rustoleum, can't even see the fire,
just a faint glow. Ours never does that unless you choke it down too
early too much. With pine it's just ashes in the morning and with almond
there are plenty of coals plus some residual heat. The downside is that
it's an insert sans ash drawer. The ash must be separated from the coals
and shoveled out every morning. But we have that job down to under five
minutes now.

 

[Eeyore]

Then it is probably not a modern stove. Our glass never gets dirty.
After about 80-100 hours of operation there will be fine ash splatters
on the glass but they are really easy to wipe off after letting it cool
down. Even when burning rather sappy pine.

In an auto group I came across the idea of cleaning glass with very fine wire
wool btw.

Graham

 

[Joerg]

Joerg wrote:




In an auto group I came across the idea of cleaning glass with very fine wire
wool btw.

I wouldn't do that. I have a stove glass cleaner but the bottle is still
almost as full as it was 5 years ago.

 

[Joerg]

Have you looked into the corn stoves? They look quite interesting.
AISI, wood pellets are a good idea as long as there is more waste
wood than demand for pellets. After that it's more expensive than
cut and split wood, which is more expensive than most other heat
sources.

Yes, but we don't want to spend another $2k+. It won't amortize because
the pellet price is higher than wood but it is a stable supply/demand
situation. So except for higher freight charges the price remained
almost constant over 5 years. Around $4.30/bag for 40lbs of the good
stuff (GoldenFire). Cord wood is cheaper, of course, but a pellet stove
can run up to 24 hours without tending. We use between 1/2ton and 1ton
per season, plus about 3-4 cords of split wood.

It gets filthy when the fire dies. The draft isn't enough to
reverse the flow (the draft across the "glass" is from the top) and
the fire smokes some. If the smudge/coke isn't cleaned when it's
cold, forget it! What a PITA!

That must be an old stove. What also helps is our triple wall DuraVent
chimney liner. That cost almost $1000 but it always provide good draft.
IIRC the total stack height should be around 15ft minimum.

Our stove is likely the original (20 YO). It's an "Elmira", which
is now out of business. It's a fantastic backup heat source (kinda
important here) and works well when it's cold. It looks like
another hot winter though.

I'd still look into a newer one. The non-cat stoves aren't that
expensive and might cut your wood consumption while giving you a more
balanced heat pattern. IOW not all at once and then nothing but more
constant. We can throttle it back to the point where it only burns the
gases. Looks cool, a blueish cloud hovering over the wood but not really
touching it. Anyhow, except for startup and reload a good stove should
never release visible smoke out the stack. If there is a constant smoke
crawling out it's not an efficient stove plus might cause a chimney fire
(neighbors just had one).

 

[Jim Thompson]

Yes, but we don't want to spend another $2k+. It won't amortize because
the pellet price is higher than wood but it is a stable supply/demand
situation. So except for higher freight charges the price remained
almost constant over 5 years. Around $4.30/bag for 40lbs of the good
stuff (GoldenFire). Cord wood is cheaper, of course, but a pellet stove
can run up to 24 hours without tending. We use between 1/2ton and 1ton
per season, plus about 3-4 cords of split wood.

I doubt that I use more than a *dozen* logs per winter to heat the
house ;-)

[snip]

That must be an old stove. What also helps is our triple wall DuraVent
chimney liner. That cost almost $1000 but it always provide good draft.
IIRC the total stack height should be around 15ft minimum.

I have a draft fan on my outdoor fireplace, due to the wind problem
down the hillside ;-)
[snip]

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

I doubt that I use more than a *dozen* logs per winter to heat the
house ;-)

Very different here

Got to turn off some outside pipes this afternoon before the freeze
rolls in. Else I'd be doing mop up and plumbing work tomorrow afternoon.

[snip]

That must be an old stove. What also helps is our triple wall DuraVent
chimney liner. That cost almost $1000 but it always provide good draft.
IIRC the total stack height should be around 15ft minimum.

I have a draft fan on my outdoor fireplace, due to the wind problem
down the hillside ;-)

Those may be ok for recreational use but on a heating stove that would
be scary. One outage and then...

 

[jasen]

And there is no thermal inductor!

a chimney comes close

Bye.
Jasen

 

[jasen]

It gets filthy when the fire dies. The draft isn't enough to
reverse the flow (the draft across the "glass" is from the top) and
the fire smokes some. If the smudge/coke isn't cleaned when it's
cold, forget it! What a PITA!

stoke it up good with dry wood, get a really hot fire going in there, the glass should clear in
a few minutes.

Bye.
Jasen

 

[jasen]

You should worry....... I might have learnt recently that 25.4mm is not an
exact inch.

they changed the size of the inch to 25.4mm about the same time the changed
the litre. (give or take 10 years) I guess they also changed the mile that
day - what a headache for surveyors, and precision mechanical engineers


Bye.
Jasen

 

[krw]

stoke it up good with dry wood, get a really hot fire going in there, the glass should clear in
a few minutes.

No, it gets baked on the glass and takes forever to clean the next
time; it only goes down from there. I've been around this block
before. It is a *requirement* that one cleans the glass before
relighting the stove.