Maker Pro
Maker Pro

HV Ladder by Jacob

  • Thread starter My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do
  • Start date
M

miso

Biggest one I've ever seen.

http://flic.kr/p/b7Jj54

http://flic.kr/p/b7JjUz

From the local Fry's Electronics store. They all have different
motifs.

The Fremont Fry's has one of the better themes. It is supposed to be the
"worlds fair". Lots of geeky displays like this. The other interesting
theme is the Sunnyvale Fry's. They tried to make it an electronics
museum of sorts.

For the actual shopping experience, the San Jose Fry's on Brokaw is
where you want to go. Is is the most relevant as far as electronic
components goes. As far as I can tell, it has the most of whatever Fry's
carries.

Fry's used to be real jerks about cameras in their stores. They didn't
want the look and feel of a Fry's to be duplicated. Nowadays with
cellphone cameras, it is just impossible to enforce the no photography
rule.

Back to the Jacob's ladder, if you can an off the shelf neon light
display power supply, these things are trivial to build. All you need is
the power supply, copper wire, and ceramic insulators.
 
J

Jeffery Tomas

"Robert Macy" wrote in message
The Fremont Fry's has one of the better themes. It is supposed to be the
"worlds fair". Lots of geeky displays like this. The other interesting
theme is the Sunnyvale Fry's. They tried to make it an electronics
museum of sorts.

For the actual shopping experience, the San Jose Fry's on Brokaw is
where you want to go. Is is the most relevant as far as electronic
components goes. As far as I can tell, it has the most of whatever Fry's
carries.

Fry's used to be real jerks about cameras in their stores. They didn't
want the look and feel of a Fry's to be duplicated. Nowadays with
cellphone cameras, it is just impossible to enforce the no photography
rule.

Back to the Jacob's ladder, if you can an off the shelf neon light
display power supply, these things are trivial to build. All you need is
the power supply, copper wire, and ceramic insulators.

Try to get the 'old' transformer type, not the electronic ballast
type.

From playing with one of these home-made Jacob's Ladders; I learned a
lot about ESD. One example, I found that a very visible arc would
strike through 3 sheets of paper, burning a hole and then traversing
up the rods. However, no amount of insulation [a whole tablet of
paper] would stop a slightly visible 'sizzle' arc to the metal head of
a ball peen hammer held by its wooden handle....with the arc going
just from one rod to the ball peen hammer's head with no need to
complete the electrical path to the other rod. At the time this
observation was a great marvel with no explanation.

Impossible. The current must complete the electrical path. Else you are
violating the laws of physics. Something very quickly would become
excessively charged creating a huge force of attraction and most likely
create a _____(insert your favorite new age physics term here that will make
you seem really smart. e.g., black hole, quantum singularity, etc...).

Chances there was a streamer or leakage that was not visible or the hammer
was grounded in some way.



--
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

The Fremont Fry's has one of the better themes. It is supposed to be the
"worlds fair". Lots of geeky displays like this. The other interesting
theme is the Sunnyvale Fry's. They tried to make it an electronics
museum of sorts.

For the actual shopping experience, the San Jose Fry's on Brokaw is
where you want to go. Is is the most relevant as far as electronic
components goes. As far as I can tell, it has the most of whatever Fry's
carries.

Fry's used to be real jerks about cameras in their stores. They didn't
want the look and feel of a Fry's to be duplicated. Nowadays with
cellphone cameras, it is just impossible to enforce the no photography
rule.

Back to the Jacob's ladder, if you can an off the shelf neon light
display power supply, these things are trivial to build. All you need is
the power supply, copper wire, and ceramic insulators.

Try to get the 'old' transformer type, not the electronic ballast
type.

From playing with one of these home-made Jacob's Ladders; I learned a
lot about ESD. One example, I found that a very visible arc would
strike through 3 sheets of paper, burning a hole and then traversing
up the rods. However, no amount of insulation [a whole tablet of
paper] would stop a slightly visible 'sizzle' arc to the metal head of
a ball peen hammer held by its wooden handle....with the arc going
just from one rod to the ball peen hammer's head with no need to
complete the electrical path to the other rod. At the time this
observation was a great marvel with no explanation.

And had nothing whatsoever to do with ESD.
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

Back to the Jacob's ladder, if you can an off the shelf neon light
display power supply, these things are trivial to build. All you need is
the power supply, copper wire, and ceramic insulators.
Try to get the 'old' transformer type, not the electronic ballast
type.
From playing with one of these home-made Jacob's Ladders; I learned a
lot about ESD. One example, I found that a very visible arc would
strike through 3 sheets of paper, burning a hole and then traversing
up the rods.  However, no amount of insulation [a whole tablet of
paper] would stop a slightly visible 'sizzle' arc to the metal head of
a ball peen hammer held by its wooden handle....with the arc going
just from one rod to the ball peen hammer's head with no need to
complete the electrical path to the other rod.  At the time this
observation was a great marvel with no explanation.

  And had nothing whatsoever to do with ESD.

OK, ESD is the dischage,
WRONG AGAIN.

The are NO electrostatics going on here.

You experienced an HV discharge. Period. If there were some meat
behind it, it would have been an HV discharge 'with sustained current'
and you would not be here right now.

ESD relates to accumulated charges found on INSULATORS!

It has NOTHING to do with electrical power.
not continual high voltage breaking down
something. But, it is difficult to separate the two.

No, it is not. If you actually have a grasp of electronics, you would
know the difference between electrostatic discharge and an electrical
power fault event.
But Jacob's
Ladder is like an ESD with "Deep Pockets"

No, it isn't. It is a High Voltage AC arc on a vertically aligned,
non-parallel pair of conductors. The heat of the arc causes it to rise,
and the spread of the conductors means that it will eventually break, and
reform again at the closely spaced bottom of the conductor pair.

It has NOTHING _at all_ to do with ESD.

It MIGHT be described as "Electrical discharge with deep pockets" if you
actually had an understanding of it. I would never term it that way, but
there is NO S (Static) in the ED (Electrical Discharge) here.

You also mess up "your" and "you're" too, don't you?
 
substitute your for you're, yes ...also their and they're

in addition, live with dyslexia, niether form creates errors that are
important, unless I'm writing 'copy'

Since you're dyslexic, I'm surprised you have such a low regard for the same
trait in others. These mistakes make reading your text especially hard for
fellow dyslexics. Maybe you don't care about others?
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

What is missed by many is that in nature EVERYTHING conducts,


You are an idiot. Firmly grounded IQ. Right at zero.

Firmly grounded... just not in reality.

ESD is a release of excessive electron accumulations, not some damned
carbon arc path that traced its way down a fucking hammer. And it is NOT
conduction either.
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

even so
called insulators. Keep that in mind and the analysis of just why ESD
burned up the insulator placed there to stop discharges becomes
clear.

STOP making up stupid shit, boy!

ESD did not "burn up" ANYTHING (maybe your brain)!
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

Very dramatic failure caused by a lack
of understanding of ESD.

THAT had NOTHING to do with ESD EITHER, you stupid fucking dope!
 
What do you mean low regard? When have I called anyone to task for
dyslexic writing? Or, even for mispelled words, ...lately?

You regard your readers, particularly those with similar problems, so lowly
that you can't be bothered to use the right word. You should know better.
If you mean, "Why do you demonstrate low regard for other dyslexics by
leaving errors in your postings?" in defense, before posting, I read,
and reread, my postings looking for errors, both of spelling and
dyslexic origins. When I don't see a single error, then post, only to
discover after all the efforts that I still missed something! This PC
system and usenet access have NO easily accessible spell checkers, so
all checking is manual.

I'm specifically referring to "neither form creates errors that are
important". You somehow think writing for others is unimportant. Why bother?
Amazingly, during the checking, an error [dyslexic word] appears to be
absolutely correct, until it's noticed, then after that the error is
always blatantly obvious, at least in that text..

You don't have to tell me.
On top of such personally generated errors, now the keyboard is aging
and starting to skip letters. Leave out blanks etc.

There is a difference between tupos and using the wrong words.
 
On Jan 7, 10:04 am, "[email protected]"
<sniped wrong stuff>
substitute your for you're, yes ...also their and they're
in addition, live with dyslexia, niether form  creates errors that are
important, unless I'm writing 'copy'
Since you're dyslexic, I'm surprised you have such a low regard for the same
trait in others.  These mistakes make reading your text especially hard for
fellow dyslexics.  Maybe you don't care about others?
What do you mean low regard? When have I called anyone to task for
dyslexic writing? Or, even for mispelled words, ...lately?

You regard your readers, particularly those with similar problems, so lowly
that you can't be bothered to use the right word.  You should know better.
If you mean, "Why do you demonstrate low regard for other dyslexics by
leaving errors in your postings?" in defense, before posting, I read,
and reread, my postings looking for errors, both of spelling and
dyslexic origins. When I don't see a single error, then post, only to
discover after all the efforts that I still missed something!  This PC
system and usenet access have NO easily accessible spell checkers, so
all checking is manual.

I'm specifically referring to "neither form creates errors that are
important".  You somehow think writing for others is unimportant.  Why bother?
Amazingly, during the checking, an error [dyslexic word] appears to be
absolutely correct, until it's noticed, then after that the error is
always blatantly obvious, at least in that text..

You don't have to tell me.
On top of such personally generated errors, now the keyboard is aging
and starting to skip letters. Leave out blanks etc.

There is a difference between tupos and using the wrong words.

True, using the WRONG word will confuse ANYBODY, whether dyslexic, or
not.

What was the wrong word?

"your" (instead of "you're")
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

there was NO carbon arcc to the hammer, the arc was an ionized blue
streak in through the air.

Be very careful of over compartmentalizing concepts.


You fucking be careful. The arc DOWN THE HAMMER makes a carbon trail ON
the hammer instantly, you dopey ****. Nobody said a goddamned thing
about a "carbon arc through the air" or "over to" the hammer, I said DOWN
THE HAMMER. The same path YOU described, fuckhead!.
The very nature
of such restrictiveness will limit your ability to see beyond.

YOU are the fucking idiot thinking that an AC arc event is an "ESD
discharge". You are the one needing to re-educate yourself.
And,
such narrowness is PROVEN to limit understanding and inventiveness.


Grow the **** up, dumbfuck. I was building Jacob's Ladders before you
criminal mother shat you and forgot to flush you. An powered HV flash is
NOT an ESD event, idiot.
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

Bert Hickman explained in great detail the EXACT process of
deterioration. Sounded like he had been there, has the T-Shirt, etc.

An HV corona pierce through is NOT an ESD event. But YOU wouldn't
know, ditz!
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

You have a serious problem with your attitude... are you competing with Phil
Allison for the most Arrogant Potty Mouth 2012 Award?


Go back to the baby seal pool, child.
 
On Jan 7, 10:04 am, "[email protected]"
<sniped wrong stuff>
substitute your for you're, yes ...also their and they're
in addition, live with dyslexia, niether form  creates errors that are
important, unless I'm writing 'copy'
Since you're dyslexic, I'm surprised you have such a low regard for the same
trait in others.  These mistakes make reading your text especially hard for
fellow dyslexics.  Maybe you don't care about others?
What do you mean low regard? When have I called anyone to task for
dyslexic writing? Or, even for mispelled words, ...lately?
You regard your readers, particularly those with similar problems, so lowly
that you can't be bothered to use the right word.  You should know better.
If you mean, "Why do you demonstrate low regard for other dyslexics by
leaving errors in your postings?" in defense, before posting, I read,
and reread, my postings looking for errors, both of spelling and
dyslexic origins. When I don't see a single error, then post, only to
discover after all the efforts that I still missed something!  This PC
system and usenet access have NO easily accessible spell checkers, so
all checking is manual.
I'm specifically referring to "neither form creates errors that are
important".  You somehow think writing for others is unimportant.  Why bother?
Amazingly, during the checking, an error [dyslexic word] appears to be
absolutely correct, until it's noticed, then after that the error is
always blatantly obvious, at least in that text..
You don't have to tell me.
On top of such personally generated errors, now the keyboard is aging
and starting to skip letters. Leave out blanks etc.
There is a difference between tupos and using the wrong words.
True, using the WRONG word will confuse ANYBODY, whether dyslexic, or
not.
What was the wrong word?

"your" (instead of "you're")

Apologies at NOT having proof read the post well enough. I usually
catch those stupid errors, but sometimes when in a hurry...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Understood. We all make such mistakes but I was pointing out your ambivalence
to others with your "disability".
In the future, I'll make a point to reread more carefully.

Got that.
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

There was no arc DOWN THE HAMMER, only through the air to the head of
the hammer. Apologies at not stating that more clearly.

There was no ESD event either. An electrical power source experiencing
an arcing event is NOT an ESD event.

The two are absolutely different effects from different sources,
sinking in different ways as well.
 
M

My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do

Never heard that term before. Sounds like the EXACT description for
the observation describing the arc's ability to, apparently, go
through a thick tablet of paper.

But it is NOT an ESD event!
Might have helped while desinging all those 20-30kV power supplies and
200kV systems,

If you did, you were in the wrong career path then as well, because your
grasp of the effects and events are badly bent by your inability to KNOW
and USE the proper terminology.
especially trying to get them to also operate in vacuum
[10-7 down to 10-12 torr]

A power supply will ALWAYS operate in a vacuum. Perhaps you refer to
some effect, such as an arc being more or less difficult within a vacuum,
but there is nothing in a vacuum to make a circuit fail to operate,
except for vented parts, like EL caps.

If it is a proper HV supply, it will be potted. And yes, I do have
first hand experience.

So what are your fears about a vacuum and HV?
 
J

josephkk

On Jan 7, 10:04 am, "[email protected]"
<sniped wrong stuff>
substitute your for you're, yes ...also their and they're
in addition, live with dyslexia, niether form creates errorsthat are
important, unless I'm writing 'copy'
Since you're dyslexic, I'm surprised you have such a low regard for the same
trait in others. These mistakes make reading your text especially hard for
fellow dyslexics. Maybe you don't care about others?
What do you mean low regard? When have I called anyone to task for
dyslexic writing? Or, even for mispelled words, ...lately?
You regard your readers, particularly those with similar problems, so lowly
that you can't be bothered to use the right word. You should know better.
If you mean, "Why do you demonstrate low regard for other dyslexics by
leaving errors in your postings?" in defense, before posting, Iread,
and reread, my postings looking for errors, both of spelling and
dyslexic origins. When I don't see a single error, then post, only to
discover after all the efforts that I still missed something! This PC
system and usenet access have NO easily accessible spell checkers, so
all checking is manual.
I'm specifically referring to "neither form creates errors that are
important". You somehow think writing for others is unimportant.Why bother?
Amazingly, during the checking, an error [dyslexic word] appears to be
absolutely correct, until it's noticed, then after that the error is
always blatantly obvious, at least in that text..
You don't have to tell me.
On top of such personally generated errors, now the keyboard isaging
and starting to skip letters. Leave out blanks etc.
There is a difference between tupos and using the wrong words.
True, using the WRONG word will confuse ANYBODY, whether dyslexic,or
not.
What was the wrong word?
"your" (instead of "you're")
Apologies at NOT having proof read the post well enough. I usually
catch those stupid errors, but sometimes when in a hurry...
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Understood.  We all make such mistakes but I was pointing out your ambivalence
to others with your "disability".
In the future, I'll make a point to reread more carefully.

Got that.

a bit OT, waaaay OT:
I always thought I was a 'hotshot' at proofreading: For example, in
Daytona, FL back in the 60's , as I went to sign the Hertz rental
contract for renting one of their cars, I was asked to initial several
places. One of the places had printed, "I have read this contact in
its entirety." When the misspelling was pointed out to the attendant
[contact instead of contract], she registered extreme surprise and
said that no one had ever noticed that before and they must have gone
through a million of these forms.

So it has been an extremely humbling experience to find out that as I
post, I too make stupid errors - even with my own conscientious
rereading.

It's not that I don't care about the person reading, but rather I
accept the fact that I WILL make mistakes and thus accept others'
mistakes, In turn I hope they will have the same attitude and forgive
me mine.

Now, my proofreading is more limited to grammatical construction and
any syntax errors that would not only discombobulate the primary
English speaking population, but would most likely do a real 'mind
trip' to any non-primary English speaking person trying desparately to
follow the English Usenet groups.

In my accepting all those 'nuisance' errors, I now spend the major
effort in checking for proper order/sequence of logic, proper
grammatical construction, and avoid too many pronouns - absolutely
making certain each antecedent for any pronoun is explicitly clear.
.

Formal systems consistency check; i get it. It take a while to develop
the skill though.

?-)
 
Top