Maker Pro
Maker Pro

HUGE electricity increase - help!

K

Kremlar

I came here to ask for help, not to be critized. I know my electrical
useage is high, and a big part of that is because of my home office where I
need 5 servers running for test and other purposes 24 hours per day. I also
have a nice home theater system with a projector, a plasma, several media
center PCs, a wholehouse audio system, a hot tub, etc....

Of course I want to lower that usage, and I'm working on it, but I also
enjoy those things. I'm willing to pay a certain price for all the luxuries
I have. I'm working on better sleep modes/power management for my media
center PCs, consolidating some of my servers, getting everybody to stop
leaving lights & TVs on, etc. I've also replaced 90% of my bulbs with CFL
low-power bulbs.

I don't know how you utilize only 200 KWH per month, but it's impressive.
Maybe with gas water heater, gas stove, gas dryer - but I don't have those
options here. I'm also assuming you don't have a sewer pump like I do.

However, the people I know in the neighborhood here utilize 1500 KWH+ per
month, so I know I'm not too far off the truck.

What I came here about was that huge 4500 KWH bill, and I appreciate all the
help I've gotten.

Thanks...
 
K

Kremlar

Of course I do want to lower my power usage, but I want to do so in a way
that won't affect me in a negative way, at least not too much.

For example, I sometimes have to run down to my office, check my email very
quickly and rush to an appointment. I don't want to turn my PC completely
off at night and have to run down, boot the PC up, log in, go into my email,
download any new email, etc... But, if there's a way I can reliably put the
PC into a sleep mode, quickly wake it up and download my email almost as
fast as before, I'll do it.

The hot tub is a sore spot. I love it, and enjoy using it when I'm in it,
but it's tough to justify the cost based on the amount that it's used.
Before I hooked it up at our new house, I had my fiance swear up and down
that she would use it. It's barely been used so far. I don't want to give
it up, but I need to find a way to keep it but reduce the energy cost as
much as possible.

I don't want to ditch my whole-house audio system, or my home theater -
those are things that I enjoy and am willing to pay for. If there's
anything I can do to reduce their energy use, I'm all for it - as long as it
doesn't affect my enjoyment too much.

Thanks again, eveyone, fore the help. If there are any good links you can
point me to regarding smart ways to save energy, please do.
 
W

wmbjk

I know my electrical
useage is high, and a big part of that is because of my home office where I
need 5 servers running for test and other purposes 24 hours per day. I also
have a nice home theater system with a projector, a plasma, several media
center PCs, a wholehouse audio system, a hot tub, etc....

Of course I want to lower that usage, and I'm working on it, but I also
enjoy those things. I'm willing to pay a certain price for all the luxuries
I have. I'm working on better sleep modes/power management for my media
center PCs

Ours wakes itself up nicely from "hibernate", but will not wake itself
from "off". Seems like it should be the same either way. Anyway,
switching from a DVR to the PC is saving us about .5 kWh per day,
which was worth it for us since we're off-grid.
I'm also assuming you don't have a sewer pump like I do.

Even if that pump is inefficient, raising all the water used by three
people a few feet shouldn't take much energy. 1/2hp? If it was running
24-7 it would only account for less than half the culprit you're
looking for. Unless there's a problem I'd expect the pump to be
consuming about as much as a refrigerator. Still, worth getting a
handle on its run time in case water conservation is called for.

As for all the smaller loads, a KillaWatt is definitely worth the 30
bucks. Lots of Ebay vendors here http://tinyurl.com/qlfsa.

Wayne
 
K

Kremlar

It looks like a cool device. I think I'll grab one - I could always re-eBay
it if I don't use it!
 
J

JoeSP

Kremlar said:
(sorry, this will probably be rambling...)

I opened my electrical bill to find a HUGE jump last month in electricity
useage.


When that happened to me, it turned out to be a crack in the water line that
came up from the well. I still had near-normal pressure, but the submersible
pump ran nearly nonstop for several months until I figured it out.
 
J

JoeSP

Take an hour out of your day, and do some detective work..

Measure the time it takes for the power meter disc to make a complete
rotation. Shut off breaker to a major appliance, re-measure the
time it takes to complete one or more rotation(s). Repeat as needed..

For times when there is low energy consumption, use the calibration
markings on the disk.
Measure how long it takes for the disk to turn 1/10 or 1/5 of a
revolution. For high energy usage devices(A/C, hot water, etc),
measure how long it takes to turn 5 or 10 revolutions.

How about borrowing or buying a clamp-around ammeter and check each circuit
coming out of your breakers?
 
E

Ecnerwal

Kremlar said:
I came here to ask for help, not to be critized.

Pardon them their jerking knees, or shrug it off. You're in a big grid
connected mostly-electric house and you've posted to a largely off-grid
energy-conserving newsgroup. Enough of us are willing to help; Some of
us have even done time in one of those houses. Some may have been
scarred by the experience.
I know my electrical
useage is high, and a big part of that is because of my home office where I
need 5 servers running for test and other purposes 24 hours per day.

Well, I believe that several old threads discuss some very efficient
headless servers which run on ~11 watts or so. And before you decide
that a big part of your usage is your home office, even with CRTs and
hot processors, you might want to go through the measuring schemes,
since most computers these days don't really draw all that much. If the
Kill-a-Watt actually shows them to be a big part of your use, you can
probably re-arrange things to save a bit there, yes - LCDs, sleep modes,
more efficient hardware for the stuff that really has to be always on, a
better analysis of what really has to be always on. A dirt-cheap
"obsolete" laptop will do a dandy job of checking your email, burn very
little power, and probably even have a choice of sleep options and
power-saving options.
Of course I want to lower that usage, and I'm working on it

Step one: look at the basics. The very basics. The "cripes my home is
brand-new I don't need to look at that" basics. Learn an important
lesson (which your sewer pump "installation" is trying to tell you): the
builder/contractor does not give a fig what the place costs to run, only
what it costs to build.

Check the insulation on the hot water pipes - actually, it's very likely
there isn't any - add some, and add more insulation to the hot water
heater, on top of what it came with. Check the caulking on the doors and
windows. Check the sealing/weatherstripping on the moving parts of the
doors/windows. Check insulation on the ductwork, especially if it goes
through unheated/cooled parts of the house. Check for drafts anywhere,
especially common locations such as electrical boxes on exterior walls.

Check to be sure that there are no "Ice melting cables" either in your
steps/sidewalk, on on your roof. Those eat a LOT of juice.

Check for any/all plumbing leaks, especially those that might not be
obvious. Use water-conserving showerheads and faucets where appropriate.
Check the dryer vent to see that it is free of obstructions and blows
strongly when the dryer is on.

That there hot-tub-thang. Couple of options, depending. Most are
<expletive>-poorly insulated, to say the least. This includes the ones
that claim to be well-insulated, in my shopping inquiries. They also
have pumps which suck a good bit of power. A usual option among off-grid
types is the wood-fired snorkel stove, or a wood-fired thermosyphon
stove setup. Takes a bit of planning ahead to use it, and generally
assumes that one is in a cheap-or-free-water area, as the usual
arrangement is to simply dump the tub when done, rather than frig with
chemicals. Fancy wood tubs on one hand, stock tanks used creatively on
the other. But this may not be an option in your more citified location.

You can certainly insulate the tub you have better, probably a lot
better. Comes to money on the one hand and aesthetics on the other. Also
involves your level of commitment to being fully outside, as opposed to
perhaps having a greenhouse over it to modify the local temperature
profile, and perhaps make your wife happier - ask her. In any case you
should be able to build a box for it from some type of stressed-skin
foam panel - given the water, I'd lean towards the metal-skinned ones
used for walk-in refrigerators, and then you can add redwood or cedar to
that where it's seen if your aesthetics require that. Be sure to start
by picking the tub up and fitting a panel under it, then have sides to
come up just above the current sides, and a good, thick, latching lid
with some means to help you lift it off. Or toss the one you have, get
two fancy wood ones (or stock tanks) of different sizes, put smaller
inside bigger and fill under and around with foam (do plumbing first,
and leave access holes for that anyway). Put the rest of the equipment
in a well-insulated "dog-house" attached to the access hole, and you're
set.

You might also (and this is one of those places where cheapness on your
contractor's part gets expensive for you) want to replace both the
electric hot water heater and the electric hot tub heater with an
oil-fired water heating boiler. If you had this for the house heat as
well, you'd be all set, but you already bought a forced-air furnace when
you bought the house, so you now get to not economize if you change the
heat source for water at your house from electric to oil.

As for that sewer pump - you definitely want a ground-level access hatch
with NO Digging required. When those things break, it is something you
want to be able to fix NOW, not next week after you find it again. You
might very well want to buy a spare pump (unless it belongs to the
city/town/sewer district), and either know how to change it, or have a
plumber who has come out and looked things over while it's all working
and daylight lined up for the emergency call when it's not working. At
minimum, you want a shut-off valve, and every competent member of your
family should know how to operate that, even if they find it Icky to
think about. Not being able to shut off a backflow is much icky-er.
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Kremlar said:
The last time they had an actual reading was 11/8/05. I finished my hot tub
and powered it up 11/10/05. Go figure.

Ah, there you go. Our hot tub seems to use (SWAG) about $100/month in
additional power, FWIW.
 
M

m Ransley

You came here for advise but dont like criticism, well to bad grow up,
this public place is about saving energy, not about people that use 20x
more energy than many here and dont care. Did you ever hear about
Standby or sleep mode for your computer, or energy saving settings.
 
P

Philip Lewis

Kremlar said:
Of course I do want to lower my power usage, but I want to do so in a way
that won't affect me in a negative way, at least not too much.
But, if there's a way I can reliably put the PC into a sleep mode,
quickly wake it up and download my email almost as fast as before,
I'll do it.
some processors have automatic power saving features. (scale the clock
back, etc)
It's barely been used so far. I don't want to give it up, but I need
to find a way to keep it but reduce the energy cost as much as possible.
Good insulation, and keeping it covered. Another poster recommended
turning it down and trying to plan the usage a couple days in
advance... only turn it up when needed. IIRC heat loss is
proportional to the difference in temp between the hot and cold
bodies... a hotter tub will transfer the heat out quicker... perhaps
i'm misremembering though. Perhaps a tarp over the entire thing will
help keep the wind from blowing on it. That might prevent some loss.
I don't want to ditch my whole-house audio system, or my home theater -
If there's anything I can do to reduce their energy use, I'm all for it

biggest thing: turn it off when not in use. The Kill-a-watt was
instrumental in convincing me of that. ;)

good luck...
 
K

Kremlar

Hey - I will!

Thanks!

Martin Riddle said:
Convert your tube to use propane.

For the 55kwh/day post your question in Alt.energy.HowToWasteEnergy .

Cheers
 
K

Kremlar

Ecnerwal said:
Pardon them their jerking knees, or shrug it off. You're in a big grid
connected mostly-electric house and you've posted to a largely off-grid
energy-conserving newsgroup. Enough of us are willing to help; Some of
us have even done time in one of those houses. Some may have been
scarred by the experience.

I guess I just assumed that this newsgroup was about home power in general,
and not necessarily about alternative energy. I should have done more
research.
Well, I believe that several old threads discuss some very efficient
headless servers which run on ~11 watts or so. And before you decide
that a big part of your usage is your home office, even with CRTs and
hot processors, you might want to go through the measuring schemes,
since most computers these days don't really draw all that much. If the
Kill-a-Watt actually shows them to be a big part of your use, you can
probably re-arrange things to save a bit there, yes - LCDs, sleep modes,
more efficient hardware for the stuff that really has to be always on, a
better analysis of what really has to be always on. A dirt-cheap
"obsolete" laptop will do a dandy job of checking your email, burn very
little power, and probably even have a choice of sleep options and
power-saving options.

I do plan on going through the whole setup to try and reduce costs - even if
it's fairly minor. Thanks for the tips.
Step one: look at the basics. The very basics.
......

Thanks for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it.
 
R

Ron Purvis

Just because some one wants help or advise doesn't mean that you have to
show that you are a total jerk.
 
R

Ron Purvis

Thanks for mentioning that some people need medication to stay in control.
There are times that I can't take enough pain meds and so I get a little
cranky. Today has been one of those days and I will try to watch what I say.
 
W

wmbjk

Most of these people are in
losing businesses and sit behind the computer too long each day.
needing medication to counteract all this they snap from time to time.

Holy friggin projection Batman!

Wayne
 
J

Jim Baber

Jim Baber replies:
Thanks to all who helped Kremlar in this thread. I have been
attempting to help a lady who has an even worse problem. She operates a
no kill shelter for cats, currently with 700 feline residents believe it
or not.

Her power bill was higher than she was comfortable with, so she
contracted with a local Solar PV installer to install a 5.3 kW solar
system to lower her billings. When the system was turned on last
November, PG&E replaced the original meter with a new Time Of Use
meter, at the customer's request.

The problem? The wattage billed went way up as is shown below
related to the prior 3 years (Jan. bill period)

2/4/2006 2/3/2005 2/4/2004 2/4/2003
8,014 kWh 4,517 kWh 3,853 kWh 2,280 kWh

That change in January's bill able watt hours went from 4517 kWh
(2005) to over 8014 kWh (2006). It should really been a reduction by
about 500 kWh. That 500 kWh should have been generated by her new Solar
PV system. If her system performed in a similar manner as my own system
did for the same 30 days. She is only 30 miles from me and my 10 kW
system produced 1078 kWh in that same time frame. Believe me the
weather was not that different at her place. By the way the meter's
accuracy has been checked by me, the installer and PG&E, and appears to
be within tolerance.

To make things even worse, PG&E also had a major rate increase 11%
in the month of January, to cover the added costs for natural gas after
Katrina. However the 11% was not evenly spread, PG&E weighted the rate
change to minimize the effect on low wattage customers, penalizing high
wattage users. Guess who? You got it! At the new rates this is how it
looks:
2006 2005 but new rates for comparison
8,014 kWh 4,517 kWh
$2,669.54 $1,169 ($683 @ last 2005 rates)
$1,169.24

$2,669.54

$2,669.54

reduced to
$2,338.74 by the 5.3 kW solar system installed in November.

She was considerably upset because she thought the new solar system
raised her January bill from the $683 (2005) to $2338, but it really
kept it down to $2,338.74. Not good, but it would be better with the
2006 TOU summer rate schedules and baseline.

However, this large power usage makes very little sense, even
considering the 4,200 sq. ft. dwelling on a concrete slab, is well
insulated, has insulation in the walls and ceilings, dual pane windows
and is heated with wood stoves. It does have an all electric kitchen,
two electric water heaters on TOU time clocks. No air conditioning, but
has ceiling fans in most rooms. There is 1 resident and 700 or so cats
with 3 dogs to level it out.

The owner and operator does not use lights much, usually only the
flourescents in the kitchen and reading lamps in bedroom and the living
room. She averages 3 loads of washing in winter or summer with drying
it only in the winter. The washer and dryer are new top line
equipment. There is a pool and pool pump.

I am interested in any comments or suggestions to help this lady. She
needs help and she does a lot of good by providing a no kill shelter
solution for cats in our area. (The SPCA/Animal shelter kills 300 or
more a year)
(sorry, this will probably be rambling...)

I opened my electrical bill to find a HUGE jump last month in electricity
useage.

To be more specific, 3 months ago I was averaging 65 KWH per day, 2 months
ago I was averaging 55 KWH per day. Last month I averaged 145.5 KWH per day.

Total useage for last month was 4511 KWH.
Here are how my bills break down.

2/11/06 - 3/14/06 (31 days) = 4511 KWH = $685.19
1/13/06 - 2/11/06 (29 days) = 1589 KWH = $245.36
12/13/05 - 1/13/06 (31 days) = 2031 KWH = $312.01
11/08/05 - 12/13/05 (35 days) = 2248 KWH = $344.71
10/10/05 - 11/08/05 (29 days) = 1725 KWH = $222.08 (this is before a rate
increase)
By any chance I wonder if Kremlar is a PG&E customer perhaps?

--
Jim Baber
Email [email protected]
1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 (Verizon IN cellphone (to other Verizon IN accounts))
See 10kW grid tied solar system at "http://www.baber.org/solarpanels.jpg"
See solar system production data at "http://www.baber.org/solar_status.htm"
 
W

wmbjk

Jim Baber replies:
Thanks to all who helped Kremlar in this thread. I have been
attempting to help a lady who has an even worse problem. She operates a
no kill shelter for cats, currently with 700 feline residents believe it
or not.

Her power bill was higher than she was comfortable with, so she
contracted with a local Solar PV installer to install a 5.3 kW solar
system to lower her billings. When the system was turned on last
November, PG&E replaced the original meter with a new Time Of Use
meter, at the customer's request.

The problem? The wattage billed went way up as is shown below
related to the prior 3 years (Jan. bill period)

2/4/2006 2/3/2005 2/4/2004 2/4/2003
8,014 kWh 4,517 kWh 3,853 kWh 2,280 kWh

That change in January's bill able watt hours went from 4517 kWh
(2005) to over 8014 kWh (2006). It should really been a reduction by
about 500 kWh. That 500 kWh should have been generated by her new Solar
PV system. If her system performed in a similar manner as my own system
did for the same 30 days. She is only 30 miles from me and my 10 kW
system produced 1078 kWh in that same time frame. Believe me the
weather was not that different at her place. By the way the meter's
accuracy has been checked by me, the installer and PG&E, and appears to
be within tolerance.

To make things even worse, PG&E also had a major rate increase 11%
in the month of January, to cover the added costs for natural gas after
Katrina. However the 11% was not evenly spread, PG&E weighted the rate
change to minimize the effect on low wattage customers, penalizing high
wattage users. Guess who? You got it! At the new rates this is how it
looks:
2006 2005 but new rates for comparison
8,014 kWh 4,517 kWh
$2,669.54 $1,169 ($683 @ last 2005 rates)
$1,169.24

$2,669.54

$2,669.54

reduced to
$2,338.74 by the 5.3 kW solar system installed in November.

She was considerably upset because she thought the new solar system
raised her January bill from the $683 (2005) to $2338, but it really
kept it down to $2,338.74. Not good, but it would be better with the
2006 TOU summer rate schedules and baseline.

However, this large power usage makes very little sense, even
considering the 4,200 sq. ft. dwelling on a concrete slab, is well
insulated, has insulation in the walls and ceilings, dual pane windows
and is heated with wood stoves. It does have an all electric kitchen,
two electric water heaters on TOU time clocks. No air conditioning, but
has ceiling fans in most rooms. There is 1 resident and 700 or so cats
with 3 dogs to level it out.

The owner and operator does not use lights much, usually only the
flourescents in the kitchen and reading lamps in bedroom and the living
room. She averages 3 loads of washing in winter or summer with drying
it only in the winter. The washer and dryer are new top line
equipment. There is a pool and pool pump.

I am interested in any comments or suggestions to help this lady. She
needs help and she does a lot of good by providing a no kill shelter
solution for cats in our area. (The SPCA/Animal shelter kills 300 or
more a year)

Geez! It looks like she had very serious problems *before* the recent
near-doubling. Based on what you've written, and assuming some
innovation on the pool and water heating, I would have thought that
the solar setup might have been able to power the whole place. Anyway,
one competent guy with a clamp meter should be able to sort out the
worst of it in a single day. The solar installer seems like the
logical guy to have figured out that mess, have you talked to him?

Wayne
 
W

William P.N. Smith

Jim Baber said:
Her power bill was higher than she was comfortable with, so she
contracted with a local Solar PV installer to install a 5.3 kW solar
system to lower her billings. When the system was turned on last
November, PG&E replaced the original meter with a new Time Of Use
meter, at the customer's request.

The problem? The wattage billed went way up

Well, other than the usual (are you sure it went up, or had she been
getting a free ride before due to a broken meter?), and checking for
power consumption, I'd check to make sure the meter actually runs
backwards when the sun is shining and all her appliances are turned
off. [These new-fangled meters can be programmed to, for instance,
count up no matter which way the power is flowing...]
 
Top