How to build self-powered perpetual motion heat pump ?

[Don Kelly]

Thanks Don, but you are not right.
Peltier modules work great.

-------
surre they do - energy in- energy out -just less energy out than there is
in.

There is no Peltier membranes yet, I am just working on to make one to
use in my 6-layer ENERGY WAFER.

-----
In fact some do exist and interesting conversion techniques using catalytic
burning of fuel are being explored- so far efficiency far less than 1% at a
500 C temperature difference and low output.
------

And please stop your general speaking about physics and thermodynamics.

----------
Why- that is the crux of the matter.
----------

My concept of 6-LAYER ENERGY WAFER is excellent and feasible.
Each ENERGY LAYER is already operational and on the market.
I am integrating 6 forms of renewable energy generators into one wafer.
That's all. My 6-layer energy wafer is ok and is not against any rules
of science.

---------
You have not attempted to show that and have avoided questions regarding the
physics. What you say for some components is fine- for others it is nonsense
and for the overall concept the nonsense wins out.
Peltier OK, solar OK, water fuel cell-not OK, overall energy conversion
concept -hand waving- not based on an understanding of what takes place. Can
you show the energy balances in your system- i.e. where the energy
originates, how it is used and what is left over- You apparently are
thinking of a source followed by a set of sinks which waste energy.

My opinion stands- you have shown no fundamental understanding of the
physics and energy balances involved. Without that, why should I consider
you any more seriously than I would consider any of the perpetual motion and
overunity cranks and scams?

Have fun
Bye,

 

[Jack]

you are not correct
I am building my 6-layer renewable energy generator wafer
to transform heat energy into electrical energy
and Peltier is great but still to expensive.

I have already tested cold fusion cells, especially H2 cells
and now wait for delivery of ethanol/methanol fuel cell membranes for
testing purposes.

There is no fuel in my 6-layer wafer.
The only fuel is heat from sunshine and rain water to power water fuel
cell, once on the market.
Peltier is to transform heat energy into electrical energy and to cool
solar cell. Both Piezo and Electret are intended to use energy of sea
waves.
I have already got very small size generator powered by wind energy.

------

but your comments are irrelevant
exactly, still under development

and have avoided questions regarding the

physics.

what questions abut ?
Peltier ?
Piezo ?
solar cell ?
cold fusion cell ?
Electret ?
very small wind energy powered generators ?

You get your questions already answered on the net.
Go to Google and ask your question.

What you say for some components is fine- for others it is nonsense

and for the overall concept the nonsense wins out.

concept is great and excellent
I have already got 2 companies interested to support me with funding and
materials supply .

Peltier OK, solar OK, water fuel cell-not OK,

water fuel cell is still under development
let us see what we get in few next months

overall energy conversion

concept -hand waving- not based on an understanding of what takes place.

there is no hand waving
6-layer wafer floating on the sea as life saving equipment.
In the meantime got concept of 7th layer from another company.

Can

you show the energy balances in your system- i.e. where the energy
originates, how it is used and what is left over-

sunshine, heat energy is transformed by solar cell, Peltier into
electrical energy
sea wave energy is transferred by Piezo/Electret into electrical
energy, water fuel cell generates electrical energy
small wind energy powered generators supply electrical energy
7th layer still under development

You apparently are

thinking of a source followed by a set of sinks which waste energy.

not exactly
energy comes from 5 sources and is transformed into electrical energy
in the night work Piezo/Electret layers or wind energy layer as option,
water fuel cell layer as option
7th layer chemical fuel cell is on only for a short time

My opinion stands- you have shown no fundamental understanding of the
physics and energy balances involved.

you are wrong
each layer works independently, generating electrical energy given
conditions are met
Without that, why should I consider

you any more seriously than I would consider any of the perpetual motion and
overunity cranks and scams?

stupid comment
is Peltier something wrong to you ?
is Piezo ?
is solar cell ?
is sea wave energy ?
is cold fusion ?
is wind energy ?
is chemical fuel cell ?

what's wrong with you ?
Anyway, I am going to build 10-layer renewable energy life-saving
floating wafer.

Have fun
Bye,

to see you next year

--
Jack
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography.
All rights reserved 2003.
______________________________
Global Inventors Organization
28 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $1000 a piece

 

[Jack]

You can probably boost performance of your ENERGY WAFER with an EER device.

EER device stays for what ?
electrical energy ... ?

I have got 2 another layers to my wafer.
chemical fuel cell membrane
and magnetic induction layer
--
Jack
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography.
All rights reserved 2003.
______________________________
Global Inventors Organization
28 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $1000 a piece

 

[Don Kelly]

I have already tested cold fusion cells, especially H2 cells
and now wait for delivery of ethanol/methanol fuel cell membranes for
testing purposes.

--------
They exist and work a lot better than cold fusion
------------

There is no fuel in my 6-layer wafer.
The only fuel is heat from sunshine and rain water to power water fuel
cell, once on the market.

-------
You seem to be sure that the water fuel cell is a viable option but have
given no evidence to show that. I did ask if it was Meyer's water fuel cell
but had no answer. -then what is it?
------------

Peltier is to transform heat energy into electrical energy and to cool
solar cell.

-----------
If it is used to transform heat energy to electrical energy then it is using
waste heat from the solar cell. Will this cool it? If it does then the
Peltier output decreases and the cooling effect decreases. If you intend to
use the Peltier to cool the solar cell (why?) then you will need an energy
source to accomplish this.

Both Piezo and Electret are intended to use energy of sea

waves.

--------
fine- but have you looked at the characteristics (particularly voltage
levels and power output levels) of these and the energy conversion
efficiencies?
How these various thing behave is something that you should know.
-------
Now you have a device sitting in the sun, and getting further input from the
sea and wind and somehow adding on bits and pieces that, as far as I can
see, are actually energy sinks
------------

I have already got very small size generator powered by wind energy.
but your comments are irrelevant

----------
They are damned relevant. Maybe that is why you don't want to face them.
-------------,excellence or feasibility. I can claim that pigs can fly but backing it up
is a problem.

exactly, still under development

------
Or, you are whistling in the wind.
-------------------

and have avoided questions regarding the
what questions abut ?
Peltier ?
Piezo ?
solar cell ?

----
so far so good
------------

cold fusion cell ?

-----------
-?????- got one that works?
-----------------

Electret ? OK
very small wind energy powered generators ?

--

Now put together as you propose - you may end up with the good sources
producing energy which is absorbed by the rest of the setup resulting in
less output than would be available from the solar and wind sources
separately.
------------

You get your questions already answered on the net.
Go to Google and ask your question.

--------------
What source -Keelynet? You are still avoiding the issue. There are good
sources on the net but for every one of these there are sources which are,
put basically, pure bullshit. Got any references? Can you separate the real
from the imagined?
------------

What you say for some components is fine- for others it is nonsense
concept is great and excellent
I have already got 2 companies interested to support me with funding and
materials supply .
--------------------
water fuel cell is still under development
let us see what we get in few next months

------
Any references re water fuel cell? Any physical backing for this?
----------
--> overall energy conversion

there is no hand waving

-------
You are right - there is not even that.
-------

6-layer wafer floating on the sea as life saving equipment.
In the meantime got concept of 7th layer from another company.

Can

sunshine, heat energy is transformed by solar cell, Peltier into
electrical energy
sea wave energy is transferred by Piezo/Electret into electrical
energy, water fuel cell generates electrical energy
small wind energy powered generators supply electrical energy

7th layer still under development

You apparently are
not exactly
energy comes from 5 sources and is transformed into electrical energy

-------
No- I am thinking of what happens in the whole package and wanting to know
what the energy flows and balances are. You havenot provided any information
regarding this and your concept has shifted around from heat pump/engine to
a mix of other ideas without any reasoning. At one time you were getting
electric energy from osmosis but also indcated that osmosis doesn't need
energy input. Shades of perpetual motion.
Solar, sea, wind and if you have your 7th element- chemical. The rest ???

in the night work Piezo/Electret layers or wind energy layer as option,
water fuel cell layer as option
7th layer chemical fuel cell is on only for a short time
you are wrong
each layer works independently, generating electrical energy given
conditions are met

-------------
Good - now we are getting to a number of different known devices working
independently in layers(?) We have those. Relative power output of the
propsed mechanisms??? Where is the invention here?
Independent sources feeding to a common load - fine- This is not new -but,
until now you have not indicated or implied such independence. Remember that
you started with an impossible heat pump/engine scheme and now are throwing
in a whole mixture of ideas without due consideration of the interactions
(or lack of). My following comment still holds.

stupid comment

---------
That is a non-answer.
--------

is Peltier something wrong to you ?
is Piezo ?
is solar cell ?
is sea wave energy ?

--------
Those exist -I do not deny that..
-----------

is cold fusion ?

----------------
problem here- where's the evidence that it actually exists? Sounded good but
it appears to be a dud.
-----------

is wind energy ?
is chemical fuel cell ?

---------
These exist but you forgot your amazing water fuel cell which is also a
non-starter.

The problem is that you are trying to layer things that work with things
that don't and have simply ignored any analysis of what the end result will
be. Don't you think that some form of analysis and backing up of such
analysis with solid data or theory might be useful? Simply because some of
the things that you promote are feasible, doesn't mean the combination is
feasible (particularly when you throw in cold fusion and water fuel cells).
..
-----------

what's wrong with you ?

---------
Possibly many years being exposed to a scientific and engineering education
and practice and the associated need to defend ideas against criticism
(compared to which, my criticism of your ideas is really quite gentle) may
have something to do with it. It is also a desire to see some meat rather
than wishful thinking. If you know what you are about then you should be
able to answer my questions/criticism with solid analysis/data. So far, you
haven't tried.

------------------------------

Anyway, I am going to build 10-layer renewable energy life-saving
floating wafer.

--------

goodness me - first it was 5 then 6 then 7 and now 10.
Go ahead. Have fun.
If you succeed, I'll eat crow. Boiled.
I won't heat the water yet if you don't mind.

 

[Jack]

thanks,
where to buy ?
exactly

I did ask if it was Meyer's water fuel cell

but had no answer. -then what is it?

why do you ask about Meyer's water fuel cell ?
I mean the latest water fuel cell microchannel membrane invention from
University of Calgary (last month's invention)

------------

it all depends on a construction of Peltier membrane

Will this cool it?
no, whould will it ?

If it does then the

Peltier output decreases and the cooling effect decreases.

have you ever played with Peltier before ?

If you intend to

use the Peltier to cool the solar cell (why?)

no
don't ask unrelevant questions

then you will need an energy

source to accomplish this.

see above

Both Piezo and Electret are intended to use energy of sea

are you joking ?
in the night solar cell and Peltier simply don't work.
efficiency is unrelevant
in the night only Piezo and Elecret can work powered by sea wave energy
the only choice is : yes or no

How these various thing behave is something that you should know.
-------

I know that, because I have already built Piezo, magnetic induction and
Electret charger

Now you have a device sitting in the sun, and getting further input from the
sea and wind and somehow adding on bits and pieces that, as far as I can
see, are actually energy sinks
------------

quite opposite
relevant to you only

,excellence or feasibility. I can claim that pigs can fly but backing it up
is a problem.

what's your problem ?
I am making my already 8-layer renewable energy generator wafer.
All I need is to know how to make low-cost Peltier membrane on myself.and what about you ?
R&D group of scientists worked out water fuel cell membrane
I am a buyer not developer only.

no
I have got 8 renewable sources of electrical energy, working
independently and in parallel.
Not the case.

resulting in

less output than would be available from the solar and wind sources
separately.
------------ Nope.

your issue ?

There are good

sources on the net but for every one of these there are sources which are,
put basically, pure bullshit. Got any references? Can you separate the real
from the imagined?
------------

Peltier is real
magnetic induction is real
Piezo is real
Electret is real
solar cell is real
water fuel cell is under development in Calgary (if I remember)
wind energy is real

what is imagined by you ?

go to Google

--> overall energy conversion

there is waving by sea waves
it's to early to made analysis like above right now

You havenot provided any information

regarding this and your concept has shifted around from heat pump/engine to
a mix of other ideas without any reasoning.

reasoning by you ?
It's me making my 8-layer renewable energy generator - wafer.


At one time you were getting

electric energy from osmosis but also indcated that osmosis doesn't need
energy input.

exactly
don't mess RO with natural osmosis

Shades of perpetual motion.

your problem

Solar, sea, wind and if you have your 7th element- chemical. The rest ???

as described earlier
exactly

We have those. Relative power output of the

propsed mechanisms??? Where is the invention here?

wait for finished product

Independent sources feeding to a common load - fine- This is not new -but,
until now you have not indicated or implied such independence. Remember that
you started with an impossible heat pump/engine scheme

there is nothing impossible in heat pump/engine as described at the
beginning

and now are throwing

in a whole mixture of ideas without due consideration of the interactions
(or lack of).

you are wrong

My following comment still holds.

it doesn't matter
don't await answers to stupid questions
so what was your point ?
go to the source
Once again
I am not developer of water fuel cell.
I am going to buy ready made water fuel cell membranes and use in my
wafer.

The problem is that you are trying to layer things that work with things
that don't

completely untrue

and have simply ignored any analysis of what the end result will

be.

what kind of analysis do you mean ?
I am going to get my wafer finished first and site tested.

Don't you think that some form of analysis and backing up of such

analysis with solid data or theory might be useful?

to whom ?
First of all I have to have my Peltier membrane manufactured first to
make any analysis.

Simply because some of

the things that you promote are feasible, doesn't mean the combination is
feasible

ok, but it's your problem

(particularly when you throw in cold fusion and water fuel cells).

.

let us wait for market product

-----------
---------
Possibly many years being exposed to a scientific and engineering education
and practice and the associated need to defend ideas against criticism ok

(compared to which, my criticism of your ideas is really quite gentle) ok

may
have something to do with it. It is also a desire to see some meat rather
than wishful thinking. If you know what you are about then you should be
able to answer my questions/criticism with solid analysis/data.

tell me frankly, why should I answer your questions over and over again
not concentrating on building my 8-layer renewable energy generator
wafer ?

So far, you

haven't tried. why should I ?

------------------------------

exactly
the idea is developing fast, very fast
I get really interesting input from people.

Go ahead. Have fun. thanks

If you succeed, I'll eat crow. Boiled. great

I won't heat the water yet if you don't mind.

ok

I'll be busy making my wafer and making low-cost big poster size Peltier
membrane, Piezo charger layer .

BTW.
What is EES ?

greetings,

--
Jack
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography.
All rights reserved 2003.
______________________________
Global Inventors Organization
28 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $1000 a piece

 

[Jack]

(unfair competition practices spam cut)

 

[[email protected]]

I am developing 6-layer Renewable-Energy Wafer, combing
solar cell, Peltier, Piezo, water fuel cell, Electret and wind energy
generator into one unit, called by me 6-LAYER RENEWABLE ENERGY GENERATOR
WAFER , abbreviated to 6L-E+WAFER.
So groups on thermal, photovoltaic, renewable are all relevant.

After reading the last dozen or so of Jacks posts, I have come to the following
conclusion:

He's playing a game of Consultant's Charades.

Not familiar with the game? It's simple.

1) Gather (or locate) a group of people knowlegable in a field in which
you know little.

2) Throw out a preposterous statement as if it was fact, carefully
misusing the terms and rules of the subject.

3) Vaguely outline the objective. If appropriate, toss in a drawing
using non-standard jargon and symbols. Make sure everything is maked
"draft".

4) Sit back and watch the experts debate over what you really meant
to say and then take notes as they come to a consensus as to both the
problem and solution. Somewhere along the line they will 'correct'
your drawings to match their solution.

When you are satisfied, congratulate the experts on FINALLY understanding
what was so clear to you all along. Make sure your name is spelled
correctly on all final copies.

It's a great game that I've seen played by several consultants.

Daniel

 

[Jack]

After reading the last dozen or so of Jacks posts, I have come to the following
conclusion:

He's playing a game of Consultant's Charades. Nope.


Not familiar with the game? It's simple. Nope.

1) Gather (or locate) a group of people knowlegable in a field in which
you know little. Nope.

2) Throw out a preposterous statement as if it was fact, carefully
misusing the terms and rules of the subject. Nope.

3) Vaguely outline the objective. If appropriate, toss in a drawing
using non-standard jargon and symbols.

Nope.

Make sure everything is maked

"draft".

exactly, still under development

4) Sit back and watch the experts debate over what you really meant
to say and then take notes as they come to a consensus as to both the
problem and solution.

Nope.
It's me, making my 10-layer renewable energy generator wafer.

Somewhere along the line they will 'correct'

your drawings to match their solution. Nope.


When you are satisfied, congratulate the experts on FINALLY understanding
what was so clear to you all along. Make sure your name is spelled
correctly on all final copies. Nope.

It's a great game that I've seen played by several consultants.

Daniel

thanks Daniel
you are completely wrong

Usenet is intended for group thinking.
My 10-layer renewable energy generator - life saving wafer, I am working
on, makes sense to me.
I really appreciate comments and inputs by others.
But there is no game, there is a discussion only.
I am just posting what I am thinking about live on-line.

Now I have closed conception phase and go to work to make a prototype.
Wish me luck and tell me how to order big poster size flrexible 1m x 1 m
Peltier modules or how to make my own ones.

You are right, I switched from traditional heatpump with compressor,
moving parts, to Peltier heatpump
and switched from home heating to electrical energy generating.
But once my 10-layer renewable energy generator - wafer is finished, I
will go to home heating issue back.

big size flexible Peltier modules is what I need now to combine with
solar cells in one unit.

--
Jack
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography.
All rights reserved 2003.
______________________________
Global Inventors Organization
28 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $1000 a piece

 

[William P.N. Smith]

Wish me luck and tell me how to order big poster size flrexible 1m x 1 m
Peltier modules or how to make my own ones.

Well, given that you haven't explained what a Solar Peltier Osmotic
Membrane HeatPump _IS_, it's going to be hard to order, isn't it?
Besides the fact that it's made of nearly pure Thiotimoline doped with
Unobtanium, can you tell us anything else about it?

 

[Jack]

Well, given that you haven't explained what a Solar Peltier Osmotic
Membrane HeatPump _IS_, it's going to be hard to order, isn't it?

don't go so specific.
just standard Peltier module in big size 1m x 1 m
list me your price

Besides the fact that it's made of nearly pure Thiotimoline doped with
Unobtanium, can you tell us anything else about it?

thanks, but tell me first where to order slim flexible Peltier sheets in
big size 100 cm x 100 cm

and what is about "eer" concept ?
--
Jack
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography.
All rights reserved 2003.
______________________________
Global Inventors Organization
14 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $8700 a piece

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

Hi Don;

Haven't you figured it out yet?
Jack is a troll!
He has hooked you big time.

3 words.

Just walk away.

Duane

Not only is Jack a TROLL, he is a very well_read TROLL, who can
use the "Buzzwords" very well. Although he uses the buzzwords
well the conclusions he comes to are JIBBERISH, and show his
lack of comprehension of Physics. I repeat the above, "Just
walk away". This guy isn't worth your or MY time. He needs to
add another layer of foil tohis hat.

Bruce in alaska

 

[Jack]

Isn't Computerized Tomography ( CT, ie CT scan ) the method of scanning the
body with xrays and using a computer to reconstruct 3d images? And isn't
Ultrasonography ( ultrasound ) generally used to provide images of fetal
development?

not necessarily

What is the present purpose of this new system?
to provide full body ultrasound scanning and reconstruct live 5d images
( 4d imaging already offers GE)

Does it involve

the scanning of humans? If so, it sounds pretty expensive and dangerous,

you are completely wrong
who

is the organization that funded this development? I would be very interested
in reading any available literature on this new system.

Alec

invention is for sale
if you are interested just let me know

and go to read something about latest developments in ultrasound
examination and volume imaging, 4D volume morphological processing,
object extraction

--
Jack
Inventor of Tomosonography and Tomoultrasonography.
All rights reserved 2003.
______________________________
Global Inventors Organization
14 inventions for auction sale
starting bid $8700 a piece

 

[Jack]

Bruce in Alaska wrote:

stop spamming and stop your unfair competition practices
I am not interested in your general speaking about Physics.

 

[Alec Chiasson]

What is the present purpose of this new system?

images( 4d imaging already offers GE)

Can you explain 5d imaging for me and provide me with references?

Does it involve
the scanning of humans? If so, it sounds pretty expensive and dangerous,

Please explain your specific invention with reference to accessible
diagrams.

who is the organization that funded this development? I would be very

interested in reading any available literature on this new system.

Alec

I have already told you I am very interested. I ask again for complete
information on this system, not vague references to existing technology.
Surely you don't expect anyone to give you money on faith? Also, what is the
name of your business and it's address?

From google:
Your search - "Global Inventors Organization" - did not match any documents.
Is this a registered patent anywhere? Surely there are specific, detailed
drawings and descriptions available somewhere to research?

and go to read something about latest developments in ultrasound
examination and volume imaging, 4D volume morphological processing,
object extraction

Thanks for the references; also, please provide the information I asked for.

Alec

 

[Alec Chiasson]

I must also apologize to anyone outside of alt.solar.thermal who is
receiving this thread; I don't read the others and so can't see your
responses. I will only continue it inside of alt.solar.thermal.

Alec

 

[Alec Chiasson]

Tomoultrasonography and Tomosonography (All rights reserved 2003)
is a new science, integrating Computer Assisted Tomography and
Sonography, Ultrasonography into one new branch, I have invented and
developed while building a prototype of Tomo-Ultrasonography Diagnostics
System,
integrating developments in ultrasonography and in computer assisted
tomography.

Isn't Computerized Tomography ( CT, ie CT scan ) the method of scanning the
body with xrays and using a computer to reconstruct 3d images? And isn't
Ultrasonography ( ultrasound ) generally used to provide images of fetal
development? What is the present purpose of this new system? Does it involve
the scanning of humans? If so, it sounds pretty expensive and dangerous, who
is the organization that funded this development? I would be very interested
in reading any available literature on this new system.

Alec

 

[Jack]

images( 4d imaging already offers GE)

Can you explain 5d imaging for me and provide me with references?

learn first about 4D imaging by GE

Please explain your specific invention with reference to accessible
diagrams.

sorry, I don't disclose details of my inventions to IP hunters

interested in reading any available literature on this new system.

I have already told you I am very interested.

are you a company ?

I ask again for complete

information on this system, not vague references to existing technology.

I don't disclose details of my inventions to IP hunters, especially on
or over the net.

Surely you don't expect anyone to give you money on faith?

Let me know if you are representing a busines , company, agency, private
person ?

Also, what is the

name of your business and it's address? contact me by e-mail first

From google:
Your search - "Global Inventors Organization" - did not match any documents.

exactly, no webpage information intended

Is this a registered patent anywhere? Surely there are specific, detailed
drawings and descriptions available somewhere to research?

no details avaliable to Intellectual Property hunters.

Thanks for the references; also, please provide the information I asked for.

thanks for your interest
e-mail me

Jack

 

[Jack]

I must also apologize to anyone outside of alt.solar.thermal who is
receiving this thread; I don't read the others and so can't see your
responses. I will only continue it inside of alt.solar.thermal.

Alec

please don't continue
that thread has already been closed

Jack

 

[Don Kelly]

You and Bruce are absolutely correct. I will follow your advice.

 

[Jack]

so what is your point ?
I closed the discussion a week ago.

It may take me a year or so, to build first 2-layer solar-Peltier cells
and another year to build my 10-layer renewable energy generator - life
saving waffer, each layer generating electrical energy from different
source of renewable energy.
Already 6 layers are feasible and under development.

greetings,
Jack