How much does speaker polarity matter?

[[email protected]]

Hello all...

I recently installed a radio and stereo speakers in my car. The
speakers were a trashpicking find and they seem to work just fine. At
the time I wired them up, I didn't know which terminals represented +
and - on the speakers, so I took a guess and wired them both the same
way. The speakers had no marking to indicate polarity, other than a
"thin" spade lug for one terminal.

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

Over the years I've read a number of different views on the effect of
wiring speakers with reversed polarity. I've heard everything from "it
won't really matter if the speakers are both wired the same way" to
"the sound won't be as good because the speaker cone will pull inward
instead of being pushed out".

It wouldn't be hard to fix, but should I bother correcting the
polarity?

William

 

[Arfa Daily]

Hello all...

I recently installed a radio and stereo speakers in my car. The
speakers were a trashpicking find and they seem to work just fine. At
the time I wired them up, I didn't know which terminals represented +
and - on the speakers, so I took a guess and wired them both the same
way. The speakers had no marking to indicate polarity, other than a
"thin" spade lug for one terminal.

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

Over the years I've read a number of different views on the effect of
wiring speakers with reversed polarity. I've heard everything from "it
won't really matter if the speakers are both wired the same way" to
"the sound won't be as good because the speaker cone will pull inward
instead of being pushed out".

It wouldn't be hard to fix, but should I bother correcting the
polarity?

William

I've never known it to matter, as long as they are both wired the same way
round, as you say. Reverse wiring just one will result in a lack of bass and
a 'woolly' stereo image, as I'm sure you are aware. If you think about it,
any waveform driving them will have a pretty symmetrical count of positive
and negative half cycles of largely similar amplitude, so there is no real
reason why the speaker moving back, at a time when the diaphragm in the
microphone that made the original recording was moving forward, should have
any effect. The theory also assumes that the phase relationship was
maintained throughout the entire recording process, and that there is no
inversion taking place in amplifier stages in your player, that isn't
reversed again, by the time the signal reaches the output terminals ...

Arfa

 

[N Cook]

Hello all...

I recently installed a radio and stereo speakers in my car. The
speakers were a trashpicking find and they seem to work just fine. At
the time I wired them up, I didn't know which terminals represented +
and - on the speakers, so I took a guess and wired them both the same
way. The speakers had no marking to indicate polarity, other than a
"thin" spade lug for one terminal.

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

Over the years I've read a number of different views on the effect of
wiring speakers with reversed polarity. I've heard everything from "it
won't really matter if the speakers are both wired the same way" to
"the sound won't be as good because the speaker cone will pull inward
instead of being pushed out".

It wouldn't be hard to fix, but should I bother correcting the
polarity?

William

Do you want fixed "image" stereo or musicians "wandering around in space"?

 

[jakdedert]

Hello all...

I recently installed a radio and stereo speakers in my car. The
speakers were a trashpicking find and they seem to work just fine. At
the time I wired them up, I didn't know which terminals represented +
and - on the speakers, so I took a guess and wired them both the same
way. The speakers had no marking to indicate polarity, other than a
"thin" spade lug for one terminal.

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

Over the years I've read a number of different views on the effect of
wiring speakers with reversed polarity. I've heard everything from "it
won't really matter if the speakers are both wired the same way" to
"the sound won't be as good because the speaker cone will pull inward
instead of being pushed out".

It wouldn't be hard to fix, but should I bother correcting the
polarity?

William

In a word, no. The only time that speaker polarity 'really' matters in
non-critical situations is in cases where different speakers in a system
are wired differently...leading to cancellation (one speaker is
'pushing' air, while another is 'pulling'.)

In your case, if those are the only two speakers in the car, absolute
polarity is irrelevant.

Next time, use a 9v battery to check. *Briefly* touch the battery
terminals to the speaker terminals. The speaker polarity matches the
battery polarity when doing so makes the speaker cone extend, as opposed
to pulling in. IOW, when the cone comes out, the positive battery
terminal is connected to the positive speaker terminal.

jak

 

[Antonio Iovane]

Hello all...

I recently installed a radio and stereo speakers in my car. The
speakers were a trashpicking find and they seem to work just fine. At
the time I wired them up, I didn't know which terminals represented +
and - on the speakers, so I took a guess and wired them both the same
way. The speakers had no marking to indicate polarity, other than a
"thin" spade lug for one terminal.

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

Over the years I've read a number of different views on the effect of
wiring speakers with reversed polarity. I've heard everything from "it
won't really matter if the speakers are both wired the same way" to
"the sound won't be as good because the speaker cone will pull inward
instead of being pushed out".

It wouldn't be hard to fix, but should I bother correcting the
polarity?

William

I don't know whether there is any standard among audio equipment
manufacturers that guarantees at the speaker output the same phase as
the original signal, and this could be the real issue. If there were
one, then I would suggest you correcting your polarity. Probably you
will soon agree yourself if you think of the sound that comes from a
bass drum vigorously hit by the pedal.
Antonio - Italy

 

[[email protected]]

Hi!

To everyone who has replied so far, thank you for your information.

I would have normally used a nine volt battery to check the polarity,
but I couldn't find one anywhere in the various messes I have.

I think I'll go ahead and correct the speaker polarity so that it at
least matches what the radio manufacturer and speaker manufacturers
say it "should" be. This will not be difficult. There are only two
speakers in the car (at this time...I may add two more later the car's
design permits it) However, I do see the point that one poster made
about which way the speaker cone will "fire" when a large signal comes
its way. It would seem logical that the speaker cone can extend much
further outward than it can inward (toward the speaker basket).

Again, thanks for the info. I will keep checking into this posting if
more information shows up.

William

 

[Meat Plow]

I've never known it to matter, as long as they are both wired the same way
round, as you say. Reverse wiring just one will result in a lack of bass and
a 'woolly' stereo image, as I'm sure you are aware. If you think about it,
any waveform driving them will have a pretty symmetrical count of positive
and negative half cycles of largely similar amplitude, so there is no real
reason why the speaker moving back, at a time when the diaphragm in the
microphone that made the original recording was moving forward, should have
any effect. The theory also assumes that the phase relationship was
maintained throughout the entire recording process, and that there is no
inversion taking place in amplifier stages in your player, that isn't
reversed again, by the time the signal reaches the output terminals ...

Arfa

It would matter for impulses from the waveform say as in a drum beat?
Wouldn't the beat of a kick drum cause the speaker cone to move inward if
the polarity is reversed? This certainly wouldn't be suitable for a sound
reinforcement system.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

[email protected] hath wroth:

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

It doesn't matter. The speaker audio has no DC component and neither
is connected to the speaker frame. The AC component of the audio is
generally symmetrical about the 0 volt axis. Whether you push or you
pull doesn't really matter. However, you do have to get the phasing
correct between the two speakers to avoid "ping pong" stereo. Try a
test CD where a train or car goes from the left to right speakers. If
it sounds "real", then you got it right. If it bounces back and forth
between speakers, reverse ONE of the speaker polarities.

I forgot to mail you the PS2 boards. I also found some Dallas clock
blobs. Sorry. Still want them?

 

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

Hi!

To everyone who has replied so far, thank you for your information.

I would have normally used a nine volt battery to check the polarity,
but I couldn't find one anywhere in the various messes I have.

I think I'll go ahead and correct the speaker polarity so that it at
least matches what the radio manufacturer and speaker manufacturers
say it "should" be. This will not be difficult. There are only two
speakers in the car (at this time...I may add two more later the car's
design permits it) However, I do see the point that one poster made
about which way the speaker cone will "fire" when a large signal comes
its way. It would seem logical that the speaker cone can extend much
further outward than it can inward (toward the speaker basket).

Again, thanks for the info. I will keep checking into this posting if
more information shows up.

William

The speakers should move equally in and out if they are not to distort
the sound.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Some people believe that "absolute" polarity matters -- that is, a
compression (rarefaction) in the original sound should be reproduced as a
compression (rarefaction). I experimented with this 28 years ago, and never
heard an effect from simply flopping the polarity of both channels. Even if
it were audible, there are no industry standards for recording polarity.

All that matters in practice is that both sides are wired identically. This
gives maximum bass, and guarantees that mono components will be properly
centered.

 

[Ron(UK)]

It would matter for impulses from the waveform say as in a drum beat?
Wouldn't the beat of a kick drum cause the speaker cone to move inward if
the polarity is reversed? This certainly wouldn't be suitable for a sound
reinforcement system.

One might think that, but flipping the polarity on a kik drum mike has
little if any effect on the sound through the PA. Sometimes I mike a
bass drum from both sides, using a 'bassdrum' mike on the front head and
a normal instrument mike on the batter head. Reversing the polarity of
the batter head mike does make a difference in this instance.
Ron(UK)

 

[Fleetie]

It would matter for impulses from the waveform say as in a drum beat?
Wouldn't the beat of a kick drum cause the speaker cone to move inward if
the polarity is reversed? This certainly wouldn't be suitable for a sound
reinforcement system.

Basically (and I have some experience with audio and hi-fi, including an
electroacoustics degree - but I am NOT an "expert"), I agree with Arfa that
for MOST practical purposes, as long as both speakers are connected with
the same polarity, then it'll be fine and you won't be able to distinguish
one polarity from the other.

If one speaker is wired in antiphase with the other, you'll lose bass to
an extent that depends on room geometry and speaker positioning - but
whatever happens, it won't be good.

There has indeed been debate about whether people are sensitive to
"absolute phase"; and I remember reading about higher-end DAC units for
CDs that included a switch to flip phase on both channels. ISTR, an d
I may be wrong, that back in the late 80s when I had a part-time job
at a hi-fi shop, there was a Musical Fidelity outboard DAC unit that
featured such a switch - but it was 20 years ago, so don't quote me.

Personally I don't believe that people are sensitive to absolute phase, and
anyone who claims they are needs to submit to a double-blind test, and
maybe if they pass, go and have a word with James Randi, who while
AFAIK he isn't offering a prize for absolute phase YET, may be interested
in handing out a financial prize if they can repeat the souble-blind
performance repeatably. He offers a prize to those claiming to be able to
distinguish between interconnect cables (providing both sets are reasonably
well-executed and one pair isn't made of wet string, for example!).

As Meat Plow suggests, there COULD be an issue with high cone excursions,
where on a bass kick, or similar, the cone former may hit the endstop
on the way IN (away from the listener) with the speaker wired one way
round, but not with it wired the other way round. However, that's a
completely separate consideration unrelated to human sensitivity to
"absolute phase". You just hear a nasty knocking sound when it happens and
risk damaging your bass unit. If you're driving them that hard though, you
may encounter problems regardless of polarity.

Summary: Make sure both speakers are wired the same way round. That done,
forget worrying about it. Unless you're maybe doing an acoustics PhD.


Martin

 

[[email protected]]

Hi!

Try a test CD where a train or car goes from the left to right
speakers. If it sounds "real", then you got it right.

I must have it right then. Both speakers are wired exactly the same
way. I was careful to be sure of that and even used different colored
wire. The "+" lead is red while the "-" is black. Stereo separation is
excellent, and sounds that do move "across" from one speaker to the
other do sound "real". In fact, it's quite surprising how good the
sound really is. The speakers are small, so they don't have a whole
lot of bass, but otherwise the sound is good, if a bit centered on the
midrange.

I forgot to mail you the PS2 boards. I also found some Dallas
clock blobs. Sorry. Still want them?

Yep. Dallas clock blobs (!!!) are also interesting. I have been
reworking them...maybe I mentioned that.

William

 

[Meat Plow]

One might think that, but flipping the polarity on a kik drum mike has
little if any effect on the sound through the PA. Sometimes I mike a
bass drum from both sides, using a 'bassdrum' mike on the front head and
a normal instrument mike on the batter head. Reversing the polarity of
the batter head mike does make a difference in this instance.
Ron(UK)

Hmmmmm I would think the pressure wave created from the bass drum head
upon the mic element would be mimicked at the speaker. Not that I don't
trust your years of experience but I just need to get a hands on with this
one.

 

[Ron(UK)]

Hmmmmm I would think the pressure wave created from the bass drum head
upon the mic element would be mimicked at the speaker. Not that I don't
trust your years of experience but I just need to get a hands on with this
one.

I`m sure it does, but the initial pulse from a bass drum hit is a lot
higher in frequency than you might think.
If you look at a trace of a drum hit it`s quite a complex waveform,
although there`s a lot of low frequency energy, the main transient
impulse is mid band where you shouldn't be getting a lot of cone
excursion. Often this mid band impulse is accentuated by a sound
engineer to get the bass drum to 'pop out' over the rest of the band.
The bottom end is still there, but the punch comes from higher up.

The low sound that you feel in your gut (63/80hz ish) is usually
reproduced by different sub bass speaker cabinets (and amplifiers) that
are easily capable of handling those kind of frequencies. Subs are
generally crossed over around 80/100 cycles and can be driven with
several kilowatts of amplifier power.

If you think about it, the bass drum head itself doesn't move much when
it`s hit by the beater, why should the speaker.

Ron(UK)

 

[jakdedert]

Ron(UK) wrote:

If you think about it, the bass drum head itself doesn't move much when
it`s hit by the beater, why should the speaker.

Actually, it does move quite a bit; but the operative dimension is not
the excursion, but the size of the head vs. the size of the speaker. To
move as much air as a 20-someodd inch bass drum head--moving x
distance--the 6 to 18 inch woofer cone has to move correspondingly
farther. I'm sure there's a mathematical relationship there that I
don't have the chops to calculate....

jak

 

[Ron(UK)]

Ron(UK) wrote:

Actually, it does move quite a bit; but the operative dimension is not
the excursion, but the size of the head vs. the size of the speaker. To
move as much air as a 20-someodd inch bass drum head--moving x
distance--the 6 to 18 inch woofer cone has to move correspondingly
farther. I'm sure there's a mathematical relationship there that I
don't have the chops to calculate....

The majority of the initial energy is outside the range of the
subwoofer, also a bass drum (any drum in fact) is a tuned instrument.
the 'x distance' excursion as you put it, is very small in relation to
the sound output, maybe half an inch or so on a properly tuned bass
drum. Don't go by the front head which is often far slacker than the
batter head, sometimes it`s only there for show.

IMO
Ron(UK)

 

[Eeyore]

It would matter for impulses from the waveform say as in a drum beat?
Wouldn't the beat of a kick drum cause the speaker cone to move inward if
the polarity is reversed? This certainly wouldn't be suitable for a sound
reinforcement system.

You presume that the recording-reproduction chain is polarity accurate. IME it's a
lottery.

Graham

 

[Meat Plow]

I`m sure it does, but the initial pulse from a bass drum hit is a lot
higher in frequency than you might think.
If you look at a trace of a drum hit it`s quite a complex waveform,
although there`s a lot of low frequency energy, the main transient
impulse is mid band where you shouldn't be getting a lot of cone
excursion. Often this mid band impulse is accentuated by a sound
engineer to get the bass drum to 'pop out' over the rest of the band.
The bottom end is still there, but the punch comes from higher up.

The low sound that you feel in your gut (63/80hz ish) is usually
reproduced by different sub bass speaker cabinets (and amplifiers) that
are easily capable of handling those kind of frequencies. Subs are
generally crossed over around 80/100 cycles and can be driven with
several kilowatts of amplifier power.

If you think about it, the bass drum head itself doesn't move much when
it`s hit by the beater, why should the speaker.

Just so you know, I spent 2 decades gigging with several bands playing
bass, rhythm, and drums. I well understand the dynamics of sound
reinforcement having owned at one time a full tri-amped pa system
consisting of 18s mids and horns, 24 channel board, snakes, mics, effects,
compressors, gates, active crossovers and around 5K of power. I still have
much of that equipment but got rid of a few amps and the separate
cabinetes buying a pair of 3 way cabs with an 18" in a Theil designed
enclosure, a 10" mid sitting in a large horn lens and piezo horn.

Anyway back to the subject. I know the drum head doesn't move much. But
to reproduce the bass drum enough to fill a big room with plenty
of low end the speakers are going to move much more than the bass head. I
do fully understand that the tap part of the bass drum is frequently
desired to cut through and it does add emphasis on the bass drum but I for
one am not partial to hearing a lot of it. The best subs are designed to
utilize both the front and back of the speaker instead of just baffling
it as in but not limited to a folded horn enclosure as you probably know.
My cabinets are Thiel design which utilize a tuned enclosure and a slot
to allow the pressure wave of the back of the speaker to unite in phase
with the front.

I suppose I'm going to go get my Yamaha sound reinforcement handbook and
refresh my memory on all of this. That's a damn good book and it's been my
bible for many years.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Hello all...

I recently installed a radio and stereo speakers in my car. The
speakers were a trashpicking find and they seem to work just fine. At
the time I wired them up, I didn't know which terminals represented +
and - on the speakers, so I took a guess and wired them both the same
way. The speakers had no marking to indicate polarity, other than a
"thin" spade lug for one terminal.

Just the other night I found the box the speakers were in. It has a
detailed wiring diagram on the side. According to the diagram I have
reversed the + and - connections on both speakers.

Over the years I've read a number of different views on the effect of
wiring speakers with reversed polarity. I've heard everything from "it
won't really matter if the speakers are both wired the same way" to
"the sound won't be as good because the speaker cone will pull inward
instead of being pushed out".

Basically you're talking about so called 'absolute phase'. Which is total
rubbish spouted by some self appointed 'experts'. If you think of a sine
wave, moving your head relative to the source can reverse the phase at any
one point in time.

It wouldn't be hard to fix, but should I bother correcting the
polarity?

No reason to at all.