How does one find employees, including trainees?

[Robert L Bass]

I would have to disagree. checking continuity

is a perfect use of ohm's law...

You happen to be quite wrong. Ohm's law derives either resistance, voltage
or amperage when the other two elements are given. A continuity tester
doesn't read voltage or amperage. Some display resistance but that alone is
insufficient to determine the other values.

just because you aren't plugging numbers into
a calculator dosen't mean you aren't using the
formula. how can you use an instrument if you
do not understand the feedback it is giving you.

Indeed. Since you obviously don't understand what "feedback" your
continuity tester is giving, you clearly don't understand the instrument
itself. Whether you actually happen to know Ohm's law or not is irrelavent.

BTW, I wasn't going to bother commenting at all until I noticed your snipe
in the succeeding post.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Mike Sokoly]

Gotta agree with ya Tom!
Why does the NY State License Class and State exam Teach AND TEST you
for Basic Electricity including Ohm's Law? So you're OVER-qualified?
Apparently they think it's important enough to LEARN for Security and
Fire Licensing!

 

[Tommy]

I still disagree, continuity is "0" resistance to current flow. it does
that by putins voltage on the line and seeing if it has current at the
other lead, if that isn't ohm's law, what is? as it happens i
understand quite well how and why a "volt-ohm" meter works so let me
say this back to you, "Since you obviously don't understand what
"feedback" your

continuity tester is giving, you clearly don't understand the
instrument itself. Whether you actually happen to know Ohm's law or
not is irrelavent."

As for the snipe, i'm really not trying to be harsh, but you have tried
to give the impression that doing this job is ".... where monkeys can
be trained to do a better job
than some "professionals." quote by RLB.

 

[Tommy]

If you'll read the post, what i said was that you do not have to be
pluging numbers into a calculator to be using the formula. i would be
willing to say that most techs worth a hoot understand ohm's law just
fine. a good number of them probably cannot quote it but understand it
nonetheless.

You are correct about one thing you don't have to know ohm's law to use
a volt meter, but you probably couldn't tell a person what you are
looking at on the meter either.

 

[Tommy]

I would not want a tech who only knew that" bell ring good wire. no
ring oh-oh, call supervisor."

 

[Robert L Bass]

Gotta agree with ya Tom!

If the "Tom" referenced above is Fowler, he wouldn't know about the NY state
license because he doesn't have a license.

Why does the NY State License Class and State
exam Teach AND TEST you for Basic Electricity
including Ohm's Law? So you're OVER-qualified?
Apparently they think it's important enough to
LEARN for Security and Fire Licensing!

If you plan to do this work for a living you will be faced with service
calls where knowledge of Ohm's law helps. Most paid technicians in the
industry never even apply Ohm's law during the course of their work though.
They use a VOM meter to read ohms, volts or milliamps directly when needed
but can't do the math to derive an unknown without that VOM. Fortunately,
the job can still be accomplished without ever knowing the formulas.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

I still disagree, continuity is "0" resistance to current flow. it does

that by putins voltage on the line and seeing if it has current at the
other lead, if that isn't ohm's law, what is?

As stated earlier, you are wrong. That is not Ohm's law and it does not
require knowledge of Ohm's law to operate a continuity tester.

as it happens i understand quite well how and
why a "volt-ohm" meter works...

That doesn't mean that you know Ohm's law. That just means you know how to
use a VOM meter. The one does not imply the other and, according to
contrapositive logic, the other does not require the one.

Note: Whether you do or do not know Ohm's law is not being questioned. It
is only the idea that one must know Ohm's law to do this work and that one
needs to understand Ohm's law to use a continuity tester.

so let me say this back to you, "Since you obviously
don't understand what "feedback" your continuity
tester is giving, you clearly don't understand the
instrument itself. Whether you actually happen to
know Ohm's law or not is irrelavent."

The funny thing is I can quote you Ohm's law and I can explain it to you. I
had to answer several questions related to Ohm's law on my license
application some decades ago. Yet I've probably needed to actually use
Ohm's law two or three times at most during the decades I've been in the
industry.

As for the snipe, i'm really not trying to be
harsh...

No, you simply took a pot shot without provocation. That's par for the
course in ASA.

but you have tried to give the impression that
doing this job is ".... where monkeys can be
trained to do a better job than some "professionals."
quote by RLB.

Indeed I have seen work by some professionals that probably could have been
done better by a trained monkey. If you decide to be honest about this
you'll have to admit having seen some sloppy, witless, "professional"
installations as well.

The reality is that alarm installation is not rocket science. Anyone with a
modicum of tool skills and a bit of patience can be taught to DIY an
effective, comprehensive security system. The other reality is that most
people have neither the time nor the inclination to DIY. That's fine with
me. I'm perfectly happy catering to the niche market of people who want to
do their own installation.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[[email protected]]

If you'll read the post, what i said was that you do not have to be
pluging numbers into a calculator to be using the formula. i would be
willing to say that most techs worth a hoot understand ohm's law just
fine. a good number of them probably cannot quote it but understand it
nonetheless.

You are correct about one thing you don't have to know ohm's law to use
a volt meter, but you probably couldn't tell a person what you are
looking at on the meter either.

Now we get to the source of your confusion. Ohm's law is about the
relationship between voltage, current, and resistance. If you are not
making conscious use of the relationship, you are not using ohm's law.
Explaining what you see on the meter rarely involves using more than
one of these parameters in isolation.

Ohm's law is not involved unless you measure two parameters and use
them to determine (by feel if not calculation) the third.

And again, it doesn't matter how your meter actually takes the
measurement presented to you. Just because the engineer who designed
the meter made use of ohms law does not mean that the user does. If
you are trying to read resistance, and the meter displays resistance,
you are not using ohms law - only if it displayed voltage and current
and left determining the resistance up to you would this relationship
be involved in your work.

 

[[email protected]]

Gotta agree with ya Tom!
Why does the NY State License Class and State exam Teach AND TEST you
for Basic Electricity including Ohm's Law? So you're OVER-qualified?
Apparently they think it's important enough to LEARN for Security and
Fire Licensing!

No, because it a moderately relevant topic which leads to problems
easily included on an exam. It's not on their because you really need
to know it, it's on there to test your intelligence - "this will be on
the test, so learn it - now we'll see if you did" If you aren't able
to handle that "test" assignment, they don't want you tackling the
challenges of real world problems.

I don't see any problem with teaching material like this to trainees
and testing them on it as part of a job-inspired intelligence test.
But that is very different than expecting them to know it when they
initially apply - it's largely unimportant and gets minimal attention
in school, but it's not a complicated idea, so an intelligent person
should be able to pick it up with a little instruction.

 

[Mike Sokoly]

No, because it a moderately relevant topic which leads to problems
easily included on an exam.

Who's opinion is that? YOURS? Did you write the exam questions? Do you
administer the test?

It's not on their because you really need

to know it, it's on there to test your intelligence

Sorry jackass- it's there to test your Knowledge and how to apply it to
your installations!
- "this will be on

the test, so learn it

No-- this is a necessary part of electricity that you should understand
and know how to use.
- now we'll see if you did"

True
If you aren't able

to handle that "test" assignment, they don't want you tackling the
challenges of real world problems.

True, Again. To add to it- I don't want you tackling the challenges
related to Ohm's Law Applications when it comes to FIRE!

I don't see any problem with teaching material like this to trainees
and testing them on it as part of a job-inspired intelligence test.

What are you- the "Instruction Police"?
The State Mandates to me the course content and the curriculum.

But that is very different than expecting them to know it when they
initially apply

Again, I agree
- it's largely unimportant and gets minimal attention

in school,

Maybe in Grade and High School, but not where I teach! It's a part of
every Apprentice, Masters, Journeyman, Security and Fire Course we teach.
but it's not a complicated idea,

Guess Again- I rountinely am confronted by LICENSED MASTER ELECTRICIANS
who can't understand ratio's, proportions, Kirchoff's, Ohms, Battry
Calculations- I can go on.
so an intelligent person

should be able to pick it up with a little instruction.

A very one sided, uninformed, and obviously uneducated opinion.

 

[Robert L Bass]

No, because it a moderately relevant topic

Who's opinion is that? YOURS? Did you write
the exam questions? Do you administer the test?

I think it's safe to assume that Mr. Sokoly didn't write the test or
administer it either.

Sorry jackass- it's there to test your Knowledge
and how to apply it to your installations!

Mike, calm down. He's talking about intelligence. This would be outside
your area of expertise.

No-- this is a necessary part of electricity that you
should understand and know how to use. - now
we'll see if you did"

The problem is that Mr. Sokoly is *trying* to find a reason why end users
should not install their own alarms. No amount of reason and logic will
convince him. He's on a mission. :^)

True If you aren't able
True, Again. To add to it- I don't want you tackling the challenges
related to Ohm's Law Applications when it comes to FIRE!

Fortunately, what Mr. Sokoly may or may not want is of no consequence to
anyone other than Mr. Sokoly.

A very one sided, uninformed, and obviously uneducated opinion.

Indeed.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Group-Moderator]

If you'll read the post, what i said was that you do not have to be
pluging numbers into a calculator to be using the formula. i would be
willing to say that most techs worth a hoot understand ohm's law just
fine. a good number of them probably cannot quote it but understand it
nonetheless.

You are correct about one thing you don't have to know ohm's law to use
a volt meter, but you probably couldn't tell a person what you are
looking at on the meter either.

But do you need a calculator to keep track of Robert L Bass's BBB
complaints?
20 complaints in just 36
months.........................................................................

Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Cir
Sarasota, FL 34233
Telephone: (941) 925-9747
Fax: (941) 925-9747


www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

www.Home-Automation.us.com

www.Security-Alarm-Systems.us


See the BBB report on line before you purchase from this vendor.


SEE THE REPORT BELOW

http://www.bbbwestflorida.org/commonreport.html?bid=41001663

 

[JoeRaisin]

Why would knowing ohm's law make one overqualified? that sounds like a
comment from an unnamed (RLB) person who already says that alarm
installtion can be done by "trained monkeys."

Absolutely not. I have worked with some guys who were not much better
than monkeys and they couldn't install worth a damn.

Perhaps I overstated when I made the "overqualified" remark. I know
Ohm's law, however I have never calculated anything out on paper to
troubleshoot an alarm system. Therefore I can understand folks saying
that one need not know it.

Would I hire someone who didn't at least know what it was? No.

Ohm's law is such a basic aspect of electronics that someone who doesn't
know it doesn't know enough about electronics to work with alarms (IMHO).

But unfortunately interviewing and hiring techs is not in my job
description.

 

[Everywhere Man]

If the "Tom" referenced above is Fowler, he wouldn't know about the NY state
license because he doesn't have a license. <

Now now now you pink little piggy didn't anyone ever tell you it's
impolite for the operator/convicted felon of an unlicensed & uninsured
company with 20 BBB complaints (like bAssburgers.com) to make pooh pooh
comments about a man who passes on that cup of coffee and donates 52
cents a day so your in-law's village can be fed for a month?

 

[Jim]

I would have to disagree. checking continuity is a perfect use of ohm's
law. just because you aren't plugging numbers into a calculator dosen't
mean you aren't using the formula. how can you use an instrument if you
do not understand the feedback it is giving you.

I didn't ask them what their thought process was, but I assumed they
used the meter as you would a battery and bulb or a buzzer continuity
tester. Relative brightness of the bulb or tone of the buzzer gives
some indication, similar to a meter ..... yet you don't have to use
....... or even know that there is a formula, to figure out if the
circuit is good or not.

But anyway these guys would use a meter for continuity and for reading
voltage on a circuit .... I guess because they knew they were supposed
to get a reading of 12. If they didn't get that, they knew "something"
was wrong. Sometimes I had to help but not often. They wouldn't have
ever tried to take a current reading. I doubt they would have
understood what they were looking at or even know what to expect.

These guys had been around for a pretty long time and were good
installers and could usually locate any problems that occured in an
installation. That's all that I expected from them. They knew there was
an Ohms Law. They just didn't know what it was. Maybe they figured if
they broke it, they would get a summons.

 

[Tommy]

This is a futile argument. we disagree and that is that. the world wont
end because if it. and as for the shot without provocation, touchy,
touchy. if you can't take a shot every once and a while what fun is it?
i don't have the burning hatred for you that some seem to here. you
were just an easy target in this instance.

So chill out and take a ride on your sccoter, scooter.

 

[Robert L Bass]

This is a futile argument...

True, but in this newsgroup that qualifies it for at least another 263
posts. :^)

we disagree and that is that. the world wont
end because if it. and as for the shot without
provocation, touchy, touchy...

No problem. But that's why I bothered to correct you.

if you can't take a shot every once and a while
what fun is it?

Fun for whom? I guess you won't mind if I take a few potshots at you every
now and then.

i don't have the burning hatred for you that
some seem to here. you were just an easy
target in this instance.

Hatred only burns the one doing the hating. My life is fine regardless how
screwed up some of the idiots who post here may be. Guys like Olson,
Cracker and Jiminex spend more time and energy attacking me than they do
running their business. Guess who they hurt.

So chill out and take a ride on your sccoter, scooter.

Actually, I've decided to sell the Burgman 650 scooter and buy something
else. It's a fun bike but after taking the MSF course I decided I'd look at
a few cruisers.

 

[Frank Olson]

Guys like Olson,
Cracker and Jiminex spend more time and energy attacking me than they do
running their business. Guess who they hurt.

Dunno. I haven't "attacked" you in months. You do seem to enjoy taking
"potshots" at me though.

 

[Tommy]

I don't see it as confusion, i just feel that if you are using a meter
to find resistance, you are instinctively using the formula. but then
maybe i am equating memorization with understanding.

 

[Tommy]

It's also a fundamental in basic electronics. i would hope that any
trainees you have are getting a basic understanding of electronics as
well as how to pull wires through two floors