How can the new Yamaha HH65 Hi-Hat Pedals be modified to work with the Yamaha DD-50?

[hsr]

Kris, I manage to find this Yamaha DTXTREME drum trigger module service manual, I have yet to confirm its compatibility with the HH-65 pedal but here is the link:

http://89.228.128.119/RemoteDownloa...e=DTXTREME+YAMAHA+Service+Manual++-+EN+JP.pdf

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

Thanks for the link. According to that service manual, that drum trigger module is compatible with the HH-60 hi-hat pedal, but the HH-65 is not mentioned. Do you know (or can you find out) what differences there are between the two models?

The hi-hat pedal socket on that drum trigger module does support an analogue-style hi-hat pedal. The module provides +5V (through a 220 ohm resistor) on the tip of the TRS jack plug, and GND (0V) on the sleeve, and module measures the voltage on the ring, which is the signal back from the pedal that indicates the pedal pressure.

When the pedal is unplugged, the ring voltage is forced to +5V, so I assume that this is the voltage that indicates that the pedal is not pressed at all. I assume that increasing pressure on the pedal translates into lower voltage on the ring connection of the pedal's TRS plug/socket.

If that's the case, you MAY be able to use the variable resistance of the HH-65 pedal to operate your DD-50. Wire up a cable like this:

HH-65 pedal (TRS jack plug) . . . . . . DD-50 (TRS jack plug)
Tip-------------------------- NC . . . . . . . . . . NC-------------Ring
Ring--------------------------------------------------------------------Tip
Sleeve-------------------------------------------------------------Sleeve

This MAY work and it's worth a try. If it doesn't work, the following cable will probably work:
HH-65 pedal (TRS jack plug) . . . . . . DD-50 (TRS jack plug) . . . . . 5VDC PSU
Tip------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +V
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NC-------------Ring
Ring--------------------------------------------------------------------Tip
Sleeve-------------------------------------------------------------Sleeve---------------------- -V

If that doesn't work, you'll need an adjustable comparator. I'll design that if neither of those cables work.

This is all based on the assumption that the HH-65 is electrically compatible with the HH-60.

 

[hsr]

Thanks a lot, Kris!

The DTXTREME and the HH60 pedal are the last generation models. From the info I found, the HH60 and HH65 may be similar that they can produce a full range of hi-hat effects such as full open, full closed, half open, and foot splash. I'm not sure if they are able to produce all sounds in between the fully opened and fully closed hi-hats.

HH60
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/el-drums/hihat-controllers/hh60/?mode=model

HH65
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/el-drums/hihat-controllers/hh65/?mode=model

This is the HH60 Service Manual:
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/Drums/HH60_E.pdf

Sorry, I don't know how to wire up the cable from your drawings.

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

OK, it's probably best to make up a cable and try it.

The first cable drawing shows the plug that plugs into the pedal on the left, and the plug that plugs into the DD-50 on the right. The cable has a 1/4" jack plug at each end.

If you have an old mono instrument cable, such as a standard jack-to-jack guitar lead, perhaps one with one damaged end, you can use the plug on one end for the DD-50 end (the right hand end) of your cable. For the HH-65 end (the left end), you need a stereo 1/4" jack plug, also called a TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) plug, so you'll need to replace the plug at the left end of the cable.

and wire it to a TRS jack plug as shown.

A mono instrument cable is a screened coaxial cable with a single insulated core, which is insulated, then and a wire screen around the outside of that, then the outer insulation.

After you've removed the plug (if any) from the left end of your cable, you need to strip back the outer insulation off the wire, gather together all the thin wires that make up the screen, twist them together and connect them to the sleeve connection of the plug. The sleeve is the metallic body of the plug, the part furthest away from the tip (end).

A mono plug only has two connection points - the tip, and the sleeve. A stereo or TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) plug has an extra connection - the ring, a ring-shaped metal section in between the tip and the sleeve. All three electrical contact points (tip, ring, and sleeve - TRS) are brought out to metal tags that you can solder you wires onto.

So you need to strip the inner core of the cable and solder it to the metal tag that connects through to the ring. That connects the ring of the HH-65 plug to the tip of the DD-50 plug, and the screen connects the sleeves of the two plugs together.

I hope that explains it. Google some keywords like make solder guitar jack plug lead cable mono stereo TRS. There will be plenty of guides out there.

 

[hsr]

Thanks a lot, Kris! I have ordered 2 mono guitar cables and am waiting for them to arrive. I'll try them out.

 

[hsr]

I would like to add this link in a reply I just saw from another forum: some picures of the inside of the HH65: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpre...68992/pic/list

"One of the pictures shows a white rectangle of insulating material which covers the "switches". It consists of a flexible, conductive membrane (a bit like a flexible PCB) which is pushed onto the PCB underneath and so shorts connections out. It wires into the PCB with the resistors/capacitor/diode on it.

I think the pedal rubber is connected to ground. When you push the pedal down it first shorts out R2 then R3 etc. When it reaches the end the only resistance is R5 from the tip of the jack to ground.

There is no power supply. The Yamaha module senses the resistance by applying a voltage to the tip (through a resistor or possibly with a current source)."

- by Keith

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

I get "Document not found" on that Yahoo groups link

 

[hsr]

I signed in with a Yahoo email account and join the DTXpress group before I can view the pictures. And I just got a reply from Yamaha that the HH65 is compatible with the DTXTREME drum module. In the reply, I was told the HH65 is compatible with the DD50 too.

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

I don't think the HH-65 would be compatible with the DD-50 even if you used a mono cable, but of course you can try it.

In post #5 on this thread, you said that they aren't compatible using a stereo cable. Using a mono cable will short the ring connection to ground at the pedal. It won't do any damage, and it's worth a try.

 

[hsr]

Yes, Yamaha had given me wrong information about the compatibility of the HH65 with the DD50. So I'm thinking is the HH65 compatible with the DTXTREME module correct?

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

Let's assume they're right about that until we find out otherwise.

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

Since the first cable drawing requires the stereo plug at the HH65 end, is it sensible to just modify the stereo cable with stereo plugs at both ends and I don't need the mono cables?

I'm assuming that we're talking about the cable wiring diagrams from my post #22 on this thread.

Both of those cables can be made from a stereo cable with a stereo plug at each end, or a mono plug at the DD-50 end (the DD-50 has a mono socket which doesn't have a ring contact).

The original stereo cable will connect tip-tip, ring-ring, and sleeve-sleeve, which is not what you want, so you'll need to cut off one plug (I suggest you cut off the plug at the DD-50 end) and connect a new stereo or mono plug instead, with the wiring modified so that the overall cable has the connections shown in the text illustration.

In both text illustrations, the plug at the DD-50 end has no connection to the ring. That's assuming that you use a stereo (TRS) plug. If you use a mono plug at that end, there is no ring connection. That will be fine too.

For the second option, where a 5V supply is needed, you may be able to run a thinnish twin cable (from the 5V power supply) into the plug at the DD-50 end, alongside the cable that comes from the pedal, and do the connections inside the plug barrel. Make sure everything is well insulated.

 

[hsr]

To update, the mono cable doesn't work directly. Kris, in a mono cable, the copper shield wires are usually connecting the Sleeves together and the only insulated wire in it is connecting the Tips together, is this right? The original stereo cable for the HH65 looks like they only have two wires inside, where's the third?

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

That's right.

Mono cable:

Tip --------------------------inner core---------------------- Tip
Sleeve ---------------------shield---------------------------Sleeve

Stereo cable:

Tip --------------------------inner core---------------------- Tip
Ring ------------------------inner core---------------------- Ring
Sleeve ---------------------shield---------------------------Sleeve

 

[hsr]

Hi all, to conclude, the first cable design in post #22 by Kris works, many thanks to you !!

 

[one2waziru]

dm dock issues
Hi ,I got an yamaha hh65 hi hatt controller but it only works If I use an insert cable
stereoplug in hh65 and white (ring)mono plug connected to the Dm Dock .I got everything except the half closed hi hatt .
I did even make the cable with the powersuply ,same problem
no half open hihatt.
It only works with Dm touch not with other apps nor my good old D4 (through midi)I get
no hi hatt control
I don't know why ??!!
please help me out.

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

What are you connecting the HH65 to?

 

[one2waziru]

to a Dm Dock from Alesis.

 

[KrisBlueNZ]

Model number? Link to data?

 

[one2waziru]

Hey Kris ,http://alesis.com/dm-dock
I sended them an email:
and this is what they answered :
Unfortunately, Yamaha pads are notorious for not working properly with our Alesis drum modules, and are even known to have issues with Roland modules as well. They really only work properly with Yamaha modules. Hi Hat controllers send a lot of data and the messages being sent by the Yamaha controller is too different from the messages the Alesis module is looking for, so they may never work together properly.
But there publicity campaign
they say it's compatible with all continious controllers.