R
Ross Herbert
:On 20/07/2010 6:10 PM, Ross Herbert wrote:
:>
:> :On 20/07/2010 12:58 PM, Ross Herbert wrote:
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> ::> :> :> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:01:58 +1000, Adrian Jansen<[email protected]>
:> :> :> wrote:
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
on McKenzie wrote:
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Makes you want the NBN.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Residents at Point Cook near Melbourne have stopped queuing
large
:> :> :> :> downloads and started bringing on-demand movies down the pipe
in
:> under
:> :> :> :> 15 minutes after swapping "abysmal" ADSL1 connections for
superfast
:> :> :> :> broadband.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Three of the 1,500 residents in the coverage area of Telstra's
:> :> :> :> fibre-to-the-home (FttH) trial network have spoken to iTnews
about
:> :> :> their
:> :> :> :> experiences.
:> :> :> :> --------------------------------
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Cheers Don...
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :While I like the idea of fast comms, I do wonder whether its worth
it to
:> :> :> :deliver stuff like movies and other packaged consumer items. How
much
:> :> :> :does all the infrastructure cost, compared to the cost of posting a
DVD
:> :> :> :through snail-mail ?
:> :> :>
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Yes, I agree. It doesn't make any sense to spend over $30B just so
:> :> :> homeowners
:> :> :> can spend their leisure hours downloading and watching movies in
almost
:> :> :> real
:> :> :> time. It is not as if people are not time-poor now when they should
be
:> :> :> spending
:> :> :> more time interacting with their kids and family instead of stuck in
:> front
:> :> :> of a
:> :> :> computer or networked TV set watching stupid movies. If that is the
main
:> :> :> aim of
:> :> :> the NBN then it is a sad waste of resources which could be better
:> :> :> targetted to
:> :> :> business, medical, education sectors who would benefit from such
:> bandwidth
:> :> :> and
:> :> :> speed. 99% of the population certainly don't need it.
:> :> :
:> :> :
:> :> :Yep, we can pretty much do all that now on ADSL2+. Seems like a waste to
me
:> :> :as well, I keep thinking I must be missing something.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :>
:> :> Oh, and it gets even better when you consider that homeowners may not be
:> allowed
:> :> to opt out of having their current copper based communication facilities
:> :> upgraded to fibre when it is being rolled out in the neighborhood. I
:> encourage
:> :> you to read the Telstra documentation regarding their Velocity (FTTH)
:> offering
:> :> which will form the basis on which the NBN is to be rolled out
:> :> http://www.telstra.com.au/smartcommunity/homeowners.html
:> :>
:> :> Imagine the situation where an elderly non-computer savvy person who is
not
:> :> interested in having the NBN connected. They may only require a fixed
line
:> :> service and no internet. So if the copper network and dedicated Telstra
PSTN
:> :> exchanges are going to be made redundant with the advent of FTTH then
they
:> will
:> :> be up for added expense and ongoing maintenance for their UPS (read the
:> battery
:> :> pdf). It will be the responsibility of the homeowner to monitor the
condition
:> of
:> :> the UPS back-up battery supplying the ONT during mains power outages.
AFAIK,
:> :> small UPS of the type installed for the ONT don't have a battery test and
:> :> monitor facility so how does a non tech-savvy pensioner know when to
change
:> the
:> :> battery to ensure a reliable telephone service during power outages? They
:> will
:> :> probably only find out at some distant time in the future when the mains
:> power
:> :> is off for several hours and they try to use the phone and get nothing
:> because
:> :> the battery is dead. They will be responsible for ensuring the battery in
the
:> :> UPS is changed regularly by a licensed contactor at great expense. A
:> Panasonic
:> :> 12V, 7Ah battery will set them back around $40 plus the contractor fee
:> (approx
:> :> $60 - $70 min) to change it over for them. This will be a far cry from
the
:> :> present community service access provisions of the copper based PSTN
network
:> we
:> :> know today.
:> :>
:> :> That's progress???
:> :A most unlikely model ou are proposing , the logical conclusion is dsl
:> :/100mbs from neighbourhood fibre connection distributors which makes the
:> :most economic sense considering they can be dropped into existing
:> :exchanges for a fraction of the fibre to the house proposal , imagine a
:> :western town with a few hundred houses and fibre to the nearest large
:> :town 30k off.Running fibre to the local exchange is drawn via existing
:> :infrastructure and a router is dropped into the frame for bugger all
:> :relative cost , if the copper wont handle the distribution then a cheap
:> :wireless link which is stable and piss easy to install.
:>
:>
:> I don't know where you live mate but that is not the scenario in Australia
with
:> the proposed NBN.
: t's the most economic way to buikd it and technically superior in many
:respects
:
Economic to build and technically superior doesn't mean it is the most feasible
or most easy to use and maintain for the end user.
: silly idea at best which is why it will fail
Isn't this staement contradictory to your argument?
:
:
:This will be FTTH only in capital cities and wireless for
:> rural areas off the beaten track. The reason we won't get a NBN based on
fibre
:> with copper for the final 300 metres (so-called FTTN) is because Telstra owns
:> and maintains the existing copper infrastructure and all the other ISP's have
to
:> rely upon Telstra for providing and maintaining their networks while at the
same
:> time competing with them.
: yup which is flawed badly
Of course. The network cabling infrastructure should have been separated from
Telstra when it was privatised so that this impasse was eliminated. But that is
now history...
:
: With the advent of the NBN, Telstra - who owned and
:> maintained the copper - will have to sell their underground infrastructure to
:> NBNCo so they can use it to pull their fibre through. This means that Telstra
:> will give up their copper network completely and no longer support it.
: but the new owners are obliged to do so hence your theory is heavily
:flawed , remember contracts can be altered anytime
You are completely wrong. You should read the policy statements from the
government's broadband website
http://www.dbcde.gov.au/broadband/national_broadband_network/policy_statements
quote
The NBN fibre network will be progressively rolled out in different areas and
there will be a transition period during which Telstra will still be expected to
operate and maintain its existing copper network within fibre coverage areas.
Telstra will have a regulated obligation to continue to operate and maintain its
existing copper lines while the fibre network is rolled out, until the copper
exchange associated with that fibre area is decommissioned.
unquote
Note that the existing Telstra exchanges will be decommissioned after the
completion of the fibre rollout, ie. the copper network disappears completely.
and;
quote
NBN Co will progressively provide the infrastructure that will enable delivery
of high speed broadband services to all Australians.
unquote
Note the ALL Australians...
: Unless
:> you have fibre to the home you won't get anything - unless you go for
wireless.
: bullshite
See the previous quote.
:>
:> :On 20/07/2010 12:58 PM, Ross Herbert wrote:
:> :>
:> :> :
:> :> ::> :> :> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:01:58 +1000, Adrian Jansen<[email protected]>
:> :> :> wrote:
:> :> :>
:> :> :> :
:> :> :>
on McKenzie wrote::> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Makes you want the NBN.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Residents at Point Cook near Melbourne have stopped queuing
large
:> :> :> :> downloads and started bringing on-demand movies down the pipe
in
:> under
:> :> :> :> 15 minutes after swapping "abysmal" ADSL1 connections for
superfast
:> :> :> :> broadband.
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Three of the 1,500 residents in the coverage area of Telstra's
:> :> :> :> fibre-to-the-home (FttH) trial network have spoken to iTnews
about
:> :> :> their
:> :> :> :> experiences.
:> :> :> :> --------------------------------
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :> Cheers Don...
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :>
:> :> :> :While I like the idea of fast comms, I do wonder whether its worth
it to
:> :> :> :deliver stuff like movies and other packaged consumer items. How
much
:> :> :> :does all the infrastructure cost, compared to the cost of posting a
DVD
:> :> :> :through snail-mail ?
:> :> :>
:> :> :>
:> :> :> Yes, I agree. It doesn't make any sense to spend over $30B just so
:> :> :> homeowners
:> :> :> can spend their leisure hours downloading and watching movies in
almost
:> :> :> real
:> :> :> time. It is not as if people are not time-poor now when they should
be
:> :> :> spending
:> :> :> more time interacting with their kids and family instead of stuck in
:> front
:> :> :> of a
:> :> :> computer or networked TV set watching stupid movies. If that is the
main
:> :> :> aim of
:> :> :> the NBN then it is a sad waste of resources which could be better
:> :> :> targetted to
:> :> :> business, medical, education sectors who would benefit from such
:> bandwidth
:> :> :> and
:> :> :> speed. 99% of the population certainly don't need it.
:> :> :
:> :> :
:> :> :Yep, we can pretty much do all that now on ADSL2+. Seems like a waste to
me
:> :> :as well, I keep thinking I must be missing something.
:> :> :
:> :>
:> :>
:> :> Oh, and it gets even better when you consider that homeowners may not be
:> allowed
:> :> to opt out of having their current copper based communication facilities
:> :> upgraded to fibre when it is being rolled out in the neighborhood. I
:> encourage
:> :> you to read the Telstra documentation regarding their Velocity (FTTH)
:> offering
:> :> which will form the basis on which the NBN is to be rolled out
:> :> http://www.telstra.com.au/smartcommunity/homeowners.html
:> :>
:> :> Imagine the situation where an elderly non-computer savvy person who is
not
:> :> interested in having the NBN connected. They may only require a fixed
line
:> :> service and no internet. So if the copper network and dedicated Telstra
PSTN
:> :> exchanges are going to be made redundant with the advent of FTTH then
they
:> will
:> :> be up for added expense and ongoing maintenance for their UPS (read the
:> battery
:> :> pdf). It will be the responsibility of the homeowner to monitor the
condition
:> of
:> :> the UPS back-up battery supplying the ONT during mains power outages.
AFAIK,
:> :> small UPS of the type installed for the ONT don't have a battery test and
:> :> monitor facility so how does a non tech-savvy pensioner know when to
change
:> the
:> :> battery to ensure a reliable telephone service during power outages? They
:> will
:> :> probably only find out at some distant time in the future when the mains
:> power
:> :> is off for several hours and they try to use the phone and get nothing
:> because
:> :> the battery is dead. They will be responsible for ensuring the battery in
the
:> :> UPS is changed regularly by a licensed contactor at great expense. A
:> Panasonic
:> :> 12V, 7Ah battery will set them back around $40 plus the contractor fee
:> (approx
:> :> $60 - $70 min) to change it over for them. This will be a far cry from
the
:> :> present community service access provisions of the copper based PSTN
network
:> we
:> :> know today.
:> :>
:> :> That's progress???
:> :A most unlikely model ou are proposing , the logical conclusion is dsl
:> :/100mbs from neighbourhood fibre connection distributors which makes the
:> :most economic sense considering they can be dropped into existing
:> :exchanges for a fraction of the fibre to the house proposal , imagine a
:> :western town with a few hundred houses and fibre to the nearest large
:> :town 30k off.Running fibre to the local exchange is drawn via existing
:> :infrastructure and a router is dropped into the frame for bugger all
:> :relative cost , if the copper wont handle the distribution then a cheap
:> :wireless link which is stable and piss easy to install.
:>
:>
:> I don't know where you live mate but that is not the scenario in Australia
with
:> the proposed NBN.
: t's the most economic way to buikd it and technically superior in many
:respects
:
Economic to build and technically superior doesn't mean it is the most feasible
or most easy to use and maintain for the end user.
: silly idea at best which is why it will fail
Isn't this staement contradictory to your argument?
:
:
:This will be FTTH only in capital cities and wireless for
:> rural areas off the beaten track. The reason we won't get a NBN based on
fibre
:> with copper for the final 300 metres (so-called FTTN) is because Telstra owns
:> and maintains the existing copper infrastructure and all the other ISP's have
to
:> rely upon Telstra for providing and maintaining their networks while at the
same
:> time competing with them.
: yup which is flawed badly
Of course. The network cabling infrastructure should have been separated from
Telstra when it was privatised so that this impasse was eliminated. But that is
now history...
:
: With the advent of the NBN, Telstra - who owned and
:> maintained the copper - will have to sell their underground infrastructure to
:> NBNCo so they can use it to pull their fibre through. This means that Telstra
:> will give up their copper network completely and no longer support it.
: but the new owners are obliged to do so hence your theory is heavily
:flawed , remember contracts can be altered anytime
You are completely wrong. You should read the policy statements from the
government's broadband website
http://www.dbcde.gov.au/broadband/national_broadband_network/policy_statements
quote
The NBN fibre network will be progressively rolled out in different areas and
there will be a transition period during which Telstra will still be expected to
operate and maintain its existing copper network within fibre coverage areas.
Telstra will have a regulated obligation to continue to operate and maintain its
existing copper lines while the fibre network is rolled out, until the copper
exchange associated with that fibre area is decommissioned.
unquote
Note that the existing Telstra exchanges will be decommissioned after the
completion of the fibre rollout, ie. the copper network disappears completely.
and;
quote
NBN Co will progressively provide the infrastructure that will enable delivery
of high speed broadband services to all Australians.
unquote
Note the ALL Australians...
: Unless
:> you have fibre to the home you won't get anything - unless you go for
wireless.
: bullshite
See the previous quote.
