High Power SSR

[AIMatrix]

I am trying to come up with a high power SSR design that can run off the
output of a 110 vac triac dimmer and switch a separate supply to a load of
lamps and still dim. I have found that back to back SCRs should work but can
not find a way to control them from the output of an existing triac dimmer.
Is there a way this can easily been done?? Andy

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I am trying to come up with a high power SSR design that can run off the
output of a 110 vac triac dimmer and switch a separate supply to a load of
lamps and still dim. I have found that back to back SCRs should work but
can
not find a way to control them from the output of an existing triac
dimmer.
Is there a way this can easily been done?? Andy

That's a perverse design. Why not design a complete system?








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[default]

I am trying to come up with a high power SSR design that can run off the
output of a 110 vac triac dimmer and switch a separate supply to a load of
lamps and still dim. I have found that back to back SCRs should work but can
not find a way to control them from the output of an existing triac dimmer.
Is there a way this can easily been done?? Andy

What is the aim - SSR's don't perform dimming they are on or off. You
want an SSR to come on when you turn on some dimmer lamps?

Like Homer says "that's perverse," If you must, I guess you could
kludge together a 7 watt 120 lamp and photocell and use the photocell
in one leg of the variable resistor of a conventional dimmer circuit.

 

[Glenn Gundlach]

What is the aim - SSR's don't perform dimming they are on or off. You
want an SSR to come on when you turn on some dimmer lamps?

Not necessarily. The Crydom D series with the '-10' suffix are intended
for phase control so no zero cross switching. The D2490-10 can do 280
VAC at 90 amps. Slaving it to a dimmer could be done but is ONE HELL OF
A SAFETY HAZARD if you don't know what you're doing. In the past we did
a multi-channel lighting controller using the D2440-10 units for
dimming 1 kW lights. It would be a snap using a microcontroller with a
power line interrupt.

Like Homer says "that's perverse," If you must, I guess you could
kludge together a 7 watt 120 lamp and photocell and use the photocell
in one leg of the variable resistor of a conventional dimmer

circuit.

GG

 

[AIMatrix]

What is the aim - SSR's don't perform dimming they are on or off. You
want an SSR to come on when you turn on some dimmer lamps?

Like Homer says "that's perverse," If you must, I guess you could
kludge together a 7 watt 120 lamp and photocell and use the photocell
in one leg of the variable resistor of a conventional dimmer circuit.


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Nice idea, but using a lamp and photocell my be to slow for dimming. Thanks
Andy

 

[AIMatrix]

That's a perverse design. Why not design a complete system?

This would be an add on to an existing system. A 16 channel light controler
with dimming, 8 amp max output per channel.
I would like to build a high power random phase SSR to run off a separate
power sorce controled by the exsisting controler.
Plug it in to any output channel of the controler to control up to 20 amps
off the separate power sorce. May only be needed here or thare and so would
be cost prohibited to modify the existing controler. Hope that clarifys.

Andy

 

[AIMatrix]

Not necessarily. The Crydom D series with the '-10' suffix are intended
for phase control so no zero cross switching. The D2490-10 can do 280
VAC at 90 amps. Slaving it to a dimmer could be done but is ONE HELL OF
A SAFETY HAZARD if you don't know what you're doing. In the past we did
a multi-channel lighting controller using the D2440-10 units for
dimming 1 kW lights. It would be a snap using a microcontroller with a
power line interrupt.

circuit.

GG

Exactly, they are called random turn on SSRs but are rather expensive
that's why I would prefer to design one out of discrete components with 110
volt input.

Thanks Andy

 

[Jamie]

Exactly, they are called random turn on SSRs but are rather expensive
that's why I would prefer to design one out of discrete components with 110
volt input.

Thanks Andy

those so called random are not expensive and they are not special by any
means.
if you need a COS/SIN detector that can start a delayed timer to pulse
the
gate or input line of the SSR of a NON Zero crossing unit.
basically, a simple SCR with an opto coupler etc..

 

[Arlet]

=----

Nice idea, but using a lamp and photocell my be to slow for dimming. Thanks
Andy

You could use a opto-coupler, with a capacitor as the current limiting
element for the LED. The capacitor will cause a phase shift, so you'll
have to add some additional phase shift to get back to 360 degrees.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

This would be an add on to an existing system. A 16 channel light
controler
with dimming, 8 amp max output per channel.
I would like to build a high power random phase SSR to run off a separate
power sorce controled by the exsisting controler.
Plug it in to any output channel of the controler to control up to 20 amps
off the separate power sorce. May only be needed here or thare and so
would
be cost prohibited to modify the existing controler. Hope that clarifys.

Still confusing, but if I wanted to build a multi channel stage dimmer board
I would look at off the shelf wall dimmers. They can be a few bucks each.
Mount them with a suitable cooling system (fans?) and remote the control
pots to make a compact control board.











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[AIMatrix]

Still confusing, but if I wanted to build a multi channel stage dimmer board
I would look at off the shelf wall dimmers. They can be a few bucks each.
Mount them with a suitable cooling system (fans?) and remote the control
pots to make a compact control board.

Thanks Homer; but I already have the controller. I am trying to make a box I
can plug into one of the outlets on the existing controller to control
higher loads from a seperat sorce and still have dimming capabilitys. Andy

 

[AIMatrix]

those so called random are not expensive and they are not special by any
means.
if you need a COS/SIN detector that can start a delayed timer to pulse
the
gate or input line of the SSR of a NON Zero crossing unit.
basically, a simple SCR with an opto coupler etc..

Jamie; Thay are not that common, especially with 110volt input. Crydom makes
them A1225-10 and the only suppler to stock them wants $25 each with a $30
min order. Andy

 

[AIMatrix]

You could use a opto-coupler, with a capacitor as the current limiting
element for the LED. The capacitor will cause a phase shift, so you'll
have to add some additional phase shift to get back to 360 degrees.

Thanks Arlet; I was hoping for something simpler may be a big current
limiting resistor, but I do not know how well it will handel the phase
shifting?? Andy

 

[Jamie]

Jamie; Thay are not that common, especially with 110volt input. Crydom makes
them A1225-10 and the only suppler to stock them wants $25 each with a $30
min order. Andy

strange, we have bins full of them at work.
zero crossing and non-zero crossing types.
the Non-crossing types, in 90+ input control range and something like
the 5..28 volt range.
we use them with another phase trigger board to control output level
to operate large tension motors, clutches etc..
also got a couple different kind in the 3 phase types.

oh well.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Thanks Homer; but I already have the controller. I am trying to make a box
I
can plug into one of the outlets on the existing controller to control
higher loads from a seperat sorce and still have dimming capabilitys. Andy

So you want one single high capacity channel?







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[AIMatrix]

Andy

So you want one single high capacity channel?

Yes, That can be plugged into any channel of the existing controller to get
its control signals and switch a separate supply.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Yes, That can be plugged into any channel of the existing controller to
get
its control signals and switch a separate supply.

It's kind of doable but it's like using an outboard motor to control the
speed of the engine on an ocean going liner.

You could make up a load resistor and put the primary of a pulse transformer
in series and use that to fire a triac or back to back SCRs. But I would
find another way.










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[AIMatrix]

strange, we have bins full of them at work.
zero crossing and non-zero crossing types.
the Non-crossing types, in 90+ input control range and something like
the 5..28 volt range.
we use them with another phase trigger board to control output level
to operate large tension motors, clutches etc..
also got a couple different kind in the 3 phase types.

oh well.

Maybe they are common at your work, but not to the general public thru the
online venders that would sell one peace. Would you sell me one for less
than $25.