Guy Macon on using terms such as "Professional Engineer"

[Guy Macon]

Do you care if I flame you? This is an unmoderated group (I hardly
need remind you!) and any one of the 6 billion people on Earth can
post here and razz you. So get used to it.

They have done nothing to deserve my respect and to make me care
what they think. You have.

 

[Guy Macon]

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit

Is this passage from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer that to
which you refer above, regarding the title "PE" requiring a license?

"Laws exist in all U.S. states and in Canada which limit the use of several
engineer titles, particularly the title of "Professional Engineer," and
often also titles indicating a specific, regulated branch of engineering,
such as "civil engineer" or "mechanical engineer." Most U.S. states do not
restrict unlicensed persons from calling themselves an "engineer" or
indicating branches or specialties not covered by the licensing acts...

That, and decades of experience working as an engineer and with
engineers, mostly in California but also in several other US
states, Canada, Mexico, China, and Japan.

The bottom line is this:

Roger Maynard (the resident alt.os.linux.slackware troll)
has, in the last week:

[1] Accused me of breaking an imaginary California law prohibiting
the use of the title "Engineer" by non-degreed engineers.

[2] Edited my words in replies so as to make it look like I wrote
that DOS is suitable for all kinds of multitasking, when my
original siad the I think it suitable only for simple round-
robin single loop multitasking.

[3] Generated fake posts from employers that do not exist claiming
that they fired me for starting fires and other crimes.

[4] Started using my name in post titles with the stated goal of
making it so employers searching Google for my name would
find the posts, believe the lies, and not hire me.

[5] When I responded to [5] by generating posts such as this
one that use my name in the subject line to push the others
down in the search results, he started acting as if my using
my name in subject lines is the reason he is doing all of this.

....and this is just what I saw in replies to his posts or in Google
searches. I don't read what he writes, so I may be unaware of
other, ineffective attacks.

I suggest killfiling him a I have done, and I suggest that those
who reply not do so under subject lines that are slander, or that
they set "X-No-Archive: yes".

 

[Guy Macon]

Do you suppose this passive-aggressive martyr complex might
somehow be related to that weight problem?

I am a bit overweight (not nearly as much as when we last met
face to face -- I tend to oscillate between exerciseing/dieting
and working 14-hour days and eating junk) and you are an asshole
who keeps insulting me despite my every effort to be friendly.

I can lose weight and gain muscle mass. You will always be an
asshole.

Go **** yourself.

 

[Dan C]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:28:51 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:

Safety comes from insuring that the product is designed to
comply with appropriate standards, not by attempting to control
who is and isn't allowed to design things.

Correction to your English: in this context, the word should be
"ensuring", not "insuring". Completely different meanings...

With that said, who exactly *ensures* that a product complies with
standards, if it's not done by the designer? Someone else has to come
along behind the designer and check the design for compliance?

 

[John Larkin]

They have done nothing to deserve my respect and to make me care
what they think. You have.

Well then, keep it light and enjoy. It's just a game, it ain't life.

John

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Do you care if I flame you? This is an unmoderated group (I hardly
need remind you!) and any one of the 6 billion people on Earth can
post here and razz you. So get used to it.

John

Is there ANY regular on this group who hasn't been flamed at least
once?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:28:51 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:



Correction to your English: in this context, the word should be
"ensuring", not "insuring". Completely different meanings...

With that said, who exactly *ensures* that a product complies with
standards, if it's not done by the designer? Someone else has to come
along behind the designer and check the design for compliance?

Often, yes. There are "compliance engineers" and they have their own
magazine.

http://www.ce-mag.com/


John

 

[SP]

Often, yes. There are "compliance engineers" and they have their own
magazine.

http://www.ce-mag.com/


John

See also the usenet group sci.engr.electrical.compliance, though it
doesn't get a lot of traffic.

 

[Esther & Fester Bestertester]

The applicable California law is:

Professional Engineers Act
Business And Professions Code §§ 6700 – 6799
Effective January 1, 2007
Chapter 7. Professional Engineers
http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/pe_act.pdf

§ 6704 Defines who may use engineer titles:

"Only persons licensed under this chapter shall be entitled
to take and use the titles 'consulting engineer,' 'professional
engineer,' or 'registered engineer,' or any combination of
those titles or abbreviations thereof."

Our government at work again. With all the abuse big business (the guys with
enough bucks to actually buy their influence) generates, you'd think our reps
would be too busy keeping these guys in check to pay attention to the "there
oughtta be a law" fools who come whining at their door.

FBt

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:28:51 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:



Correction to your English: in this context, the word should be
"ensuring", not "insuring". Completely different meanings...

With that said, who exactly *ensures* that a product complies with
standards, if it's not done by the designer? Someone else has to come
along behind the designer and check the design for compliance?

Of course. It's called "checking". ;-)

And, about "professional engineer", I'd call myself a de facto engineer,
since I've been doing engineer work (and getting paid for it, which makes
me a professional) for some years now.

You see, I graduated Summa Cum Laude from the School Of Hard Knocks. ;-)
(line lifted from last night's late-night "Frasier" rerun.)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

So, how does the smarter one take credit for that?

I don't - I give my credit to Mom. (RIP). One of my earliest memories is
of sitting on Mom's lap, with a book in my lap, and her reading out of it,
following along the words with her finger.

So, in my experience, all the credit belongs to the Mother.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Roger Manyard]

And, about "professional engineer", I'd call myself a de facto
engineer, since I've been doing engineer work (and getting paid for
it, which makes me a professional) for some years now.

You see, I graduated Summa Cum Laude from the School Of Hard
Knocks. ;-) (line lifted from last night's late-night "Frasier"
rerun.)

So you are, in reality, a handyman, who duplicates the work of real
engineers while lacking the understanding necessary to the design of
the work in question.

A monkey-see-monkey-do type. There are a lot of you guys in the
world of Computer Science.

cordially, as always,

rm

 

[John Larkin]

I don't - I give my credit to Mom. (RIP). One of my earliest memories is
of sitting on Mom's lap, with a book in my lap, and her reading out of it,
following along the words with her finger.

So, in my experience, all the credit belongs to the Mother.

Well, a whole lot of people believe that being intelligent gives them
some sort of moral superiority... even if it doesn't make them rich or
happy. Or better circuit designers.

John

 

[Frank Raffaeli]

Mr. Macon has neither the education, nor the recognized
qualifications necessary to call himself an "Electrical Engineer",
and those who hire him as an Engineer should know that he is not
insurable as such and he is legally unable to sign off on jobs as an
Engineer.

To the extent that Mr. Macon misrepresents himself, he is a fraud.

I'm not sure that it's enough of a qualifier to say "to the extent Mr.
_______ misrepresents himself / herself". You've made an assertion
that may be actionable. I don't know this Macon fellow; however, your
statement could be considered libelous, especially if Mr. Macon has
sufficient works or qualifications to demonstrate he is an engineer.

Frank

 

[Roger Manyard]

[email protected] (Rhonda Moffat) wrote:

I'm not sure that it's enough of a qualifier to say "to the extent Mr.
_______ misrepresents himself / herself". You've made an assertion
that may be actionable.

What statement is actionable? To the extent that anybody
misrepresents him or herself, such a person is a fraud. That's just
a simple tautology.

I don't know this Macon fellow; however, your statement could be
considered libelous, especially if Mr. Macon has sufficient works
or qualifications to demonstrate he is an engineer.

Anybody can be hired and given the job title of "Engineer." But the
law in California demands that you be a licensed Engineer before you
can undertake certain tasks and responsibilities and since Mr. Macon
is not licensed, these tasks and responsibilities are without his
purview.

cordially, as always,

rm

 

[Frank Raffaeli]

Mr. Macon has neither the education, nor the recognized
qualifications necessary to call himself an "Electrical Engineer",
and those who hire him as an Engineer should know that he is not
insurable as such and he is legally unable to sign off on jobs as an
Engineer.

To the extent that Mr. Macon misrepresents himself, he is a fraud.

It is libelous to call someone a fraud if it's not true. Not knowing
Mr. Macon's qualifications, I wouldn't be so loose with the f-word.

Frank Raffaeli

 

[Guy Macon]

It is libelous to call someone a fraud if it's not true. Not knowing
Mr. Macon's qualifications, I wouldn't be so loose with the f-word.

I appreciate the defense, but those who choose to respond are becoming
part of the problem. Please don't feed the trolls. Responding only
encourages them.

 

[Roger Manyard]

It is libelous to call someone a fraud if it's not true. Not knowing
Mr. Macon's qualifications, I wouldn't be so loose with the f-word.

To the extent that you misrepresent yourself, you are a fraud as
well. To the extent that anyone misrepresents himself or herself,
that person is a fraud as well.

You have to learn to read.

cordially, as always,

rm

 

[[email protected]]

I appreciate the defense, but those who choose to respond are becoming
part of the problem. Please don't feed the trolls. Responding only
encourages them.

I said *I* wouldn't make libelous remarks. Wasn't defending you. I
assume you believe you have the qualifications to call yourself an
engineer. I don't have the information to dispute it.

Frank

 

[Frank Raffaeli]

To the extent that you misrepresent yourself, you are a fraud as
well. To the extent that anyone misrepresents himself or herself,
that person is a fraud as well.

You have to learn to read.

cordially, as always,

rm

Nope. Misrepresentation by itself does not constitute fraud, but
calling someone a fraud in print is libel - unless it's true.

Google "badges of fraud".

Frank