Elementary question - what makes the current flow?

[bud--]

When I initiated what I thought would be an interesting subject of
intellectual discussion, perhaps I misunderstood the title of this NG?

The following posters are the same entity:
Archimedes' Lever
Bungalow Bill
Capt. Cave Man
Corbomite Carrie
GoldIntermetallicEmbrittlement
TralfamadoranJetPilot

This entity is commonly know as DimBulb or AlwaysWrong for appropriate
reasons - ignore it.

A full list (over 70 sock puppets) is at:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.design/
browse_frm/thread/a0cca4042b3c1834/fc4048aa160e0370?
hl=en&q=cellshocked+group:alt.engineering.electrical#fc4048aa160e0370

(Note this URL is on 3 lines and has to be combined.)

Also ignoring electrician, that leaves some serious posters.

 

[Who Am I?]

... < Palpable bollocks deleted > ...

You are quite wrong in your assumed assessment of me.

I completed an electronics degree over 20 years ago, and looking at
the shelf of textbooks I mused that if I didn't get around to reading them
again soon, I never would.

So, out of interest, I started reading them all again, and came to the
conclusion
that there was a great deal left unsaid and unexplained, even at the
degree
level.

I also accept that despite my level of education, that I do not know
everything,
and in pursuit of the truth, am prepared to admit my limitations in order
to achieve intellectual satisfaction.

I perceive now, that at whatever level one studies electricity, from the
age
of
11 years upwards, that one is presented with a series of paradigms, none
of which are complete, and all of which are misleading to some extent.

Even at the level of Maxwell's Equations, electric charge is presented as
point
function akin to mass, whereas the physicist might claim that the electron
is
not a point, but a wave function.

So, as a part of my extended revision, I awakened the paradigm of
electrons
being bunched together against their mutual repulsive forces (the "packing
density" sneered at in another post by a further example of rampant
childhood)
and the electric current (and I am definitely discussing electrons and not
positive
ions) being caused by that pressure from the electric field.

However, in discussion with a fellow radio ham (for such am I also) he
suggested
that the current flow in a waveguide is not caused by the mutually
repulsive
electric field between electrons, but that the electrons are carried along
under the
influence of a travelling e-m field and that the original emf that set the
wave in motion
is no longer relevant.

Hence the question that I posed.

Perhaps I was in error in posing a question about elementary matters in
language
that was itself more redolent of the elementary school and so attracted
comments
from one or two who should perhaps still be confined to the classrooms of
that elementary school? If so, then I apologise, but I'm still interested
in
the
elementary mechanisms of electric current, but from a perspective of one
who
has experience of much more in-depth paradigms.

I too completed my Mathematics degree many years ago. I used to think
Physics was a revelation of how God created this universe until I
learned that all laws of physics are mere approximations, and that is
a bout the best we can do. God did not used such rigid structures in
his design but allowed for a multitude of variables and yet the
processes still work for us and him. The more I learn about his
infinite power the more I realize that we with all our knowledge know
about as much as one grain of sand on a planet of beaches. Look out
onto the many stars at night and one begins to realize just how small
we are.
What makes current flow? GOD!

You would be better advised to seek the attention that you seek from
a psychiatrist and not from this group. It is not unheard of for young
children to have an imaginary friend, but to have such a belief in adulthood
is a very clear indication of mental illness.

 

[Who Am I?]

There are many equations to describe what happens whenever
it does happen, but why does the current flow in the first place?
I used to think that it was electrostatic pressure caused by all
the electrons being bunched up against each other and so
pushing them apart, but someone said to me recently, that
the electrons are merely being dragged along by the travelling
electric wave.
So, why does the current start flowing in the first place
(when there is no wave to drag them along)?
And why does it keep flowing?

When I initiated what I thought would be an interesting subject of
intellectual discussion, perhaps I misunderstood the title of this NG?

 

[Capt. Cave Man]

When I initiated what I thought would be an interesting subject of
intellectual discussion, perhaps I misunderstood the title of this NG?

No. You are an idiot. Your pathetic question is for a BASIC
electronics group, like sci.electronics.basics

You know... YOUR speed.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

Any person that cannot believe in God surely is suffering from
delusions placed in their head by a misconception that Man's knowledge
is divine.
It is like thinking the sun rotates around the earth.
So I presume, you have seen an electron and know why current flows. I
presume you think cause and effect, and an end and beginning are part
of all processes.
I presume that your thinking is inside the box created by empiricists
and you simply cannot crawl out from under the weight of years of
rational concrete thinking.
You are programmed.

No. Essentially, YOU are an idiot. And every response you give
supports the claim.

Empiricize that, dipshit.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

You are a true idiot.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

No one yet can explain why current flows.

You are an idiot.

Try a Fourier heat flow
equation.

Why should we? It does not apply, idiot!

The Mechanical people figured it out long before Charles
Ohm.

You're not an idiot, you're a goddamned retard, boy.

Ohms simply copied the heat flow equation.

You are a complete and utter dumbfuck. The name is Ohm, not Ohms, you
stupid fucktard.

Ohms' law should be called Fourier's law.

You should be called retarded. Oh wait... that has already happened,
and after this post, it is proven to be certain!

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

So, smarts, what makes current flow?

Man has learned how to gather an excess of electrons such that given a
load (conduction path, dipshit), said electrons will flow until balance
is established between the storage medium and ground, or the return of an
isolated storage medium. Such differences are ALWAYS with respect to
ground or a pseudo-ground within the device itself. The mechanism is
electrostatic pressure. When one strips the electrons away from a
lattice, there is a huge attraction developed in that medium. That
difference is referred to by those of us with a grasp of this realm, as
Electromotive Force.

In man's control of this, we are able to gather continuous streams of
electrons and HUGE differences between said sources and ground or
'returns'. In such cases, we are able to utilize the continuous stream
such that we do not even refer to it as being electrostatic any longer
because we can make HUGE amounts available, which the electrostatic world
does not get far. Even something as large as a lighting bolt cannot
perform much work in our continuous realm, but the instantaneous work
performed was fairly great... for a lightning bolt. We, however,
need a LOT more force for a much longer duration.

So, if you have no grasp of the four forces, which it is fairly obvious
that you do not, you will not have any inkling of what is taking place.
Essentially, you display a glaring lack of aptitude for this particular
science.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

I don't think anyone knows why crurrent flows.

More proof that you are an absolute fucking loon here.

It just flows.

Unlike the neurological processes in your skull, which flow at near
nil.

The next question, how does gravity work?

Get yourself up on a tall bridge or building, jump off, and find out.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

If there were no gravity our universe would be really messy. So why
is there this attraction between bodies of matter?

GO AWAY, YOU STUPID DOLT.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Why do so called electron shells not quite full exert attraction for
that extra electron?

Bwuahahahahahahaahahahahah!

"Shells" indeed!

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Archimedes Lever,
You have absolutely no sense of humor or of any other kind.
Try going over to alt.usenet.kooks where your kind thrive.

You are the fucking kook, electron boy.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

You also should go to alt.usenet.kooks where your kind thrive.
Name calling will get you no where with me.

Yet your retarded, pathetic ass calling us kooks is okie dokie?

You are pathetic. You must be an adolescent, gang boy retard.
Do you wear your pants down past your asscrack as well, boy?

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

So Great One, almighty Archimedes, tell me why?
Every particle of matter in the universe attracts every other particle
with a force that is directly proportional to the product of the
masses of the particles and inversely proportional to the square of
the distance between them.
You are an empiricist and don't have a friggin clue as to why? You
can describe how and what until we are blue in the face, but ask why
and you go into a Usenet rage.
Because you do not have a theory, a hypothesis, or a guess. So God is
my answer and you can't stand it. You have no answer!

Rant on, retard boy. I took my electronics decades ago.

You need to do your own homework, you stupid twit ****.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

For example, electrons move
very slowly in a wire,

No, they do not.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Actually they do.

"very slowly" is a stupid, misleading statement. Period.

Do you even know what a coulomb is? How about fifty of them?

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

I don't want to go anywhere with you. Maybe dimbulb will be your gay
lover. he even uses female names so you can hide it from your family
and friends.

Just so you'll shut up, current flows because of a difference in
potential at two points in a circuit.

I kill filed crossposts from your alt.usenet.kooks group years ago,
so I won't see your ignorant crap when you go home.

Christ, you are worse than Proteus is. Fag references, Terrel? How
sad.

 

[[email protected]]

Ah, I confess to peeking back though I said I wouldn't.
Yes, a coulomb is equivalent to 6E18 electrons.

For a given current you have a certain # of electrons moving past a
point in the wire per second (Q/t), so either you have a small # of
electrons in motion and thus a high velocity, or you have a large # of
electrons in motion and thus a low velocity. The formula is pretty
simple in concept.

Don't expect AlwaysWrong to show any math.

If you want to dispute my statement you'll have to come up with a
different value for the 'number of charged particles per unit volume'
I used, and of course document where you got it, or otherwise it's
just blather.

That's DimBulb; just blather. ...usually with poop.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Don't expect AlwaysWrong to show any math.

You're an idiot.

That's DimBulb; just blather. ...usually with poop.

You're the poop as well, so I guess you got one right as you followed
right along behind me.

 

[[email protected]]

You're an idiot.

At least I'm not _always_ wrong, AlwaysWrong.

You're the poop as well, so I guess you got one right as you followed
right along behind me.

IKWYABWAI? I suppose that is the best you can do, DimBulb.