Earth bermed homes really frugal and effective?

[Anthony Matonak]

Hmmm...... micro duct cooling?!!
Never heard of that. can you explain??

Oops, I did a quick google search and found they are more often
referenced as "mini duct" and "small duct high velocity" systems.

http://www.spacepak.com/
http://www.toolbase.org/tertiaryT.asp?DocumentID=2088&CategoryID=962
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hvac/msg0221570019018.html
(and many, many more... try www.google.com yourself)

Anthony

 

[[email protected]]

Oops, I did a quick google search and found they are more often

referenced as "mini duct" and "small duct high velocity" systems.

http://www.spacepak.com/
http://www.toolbase.org/tertiaryT.asp?DocumentID=2088&CategoryID=962
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hvac/msg0221570019018.html
(and many, many more... try www.google.com yourself)

Very very cool!! Thanks Anthony!

However i wonder how much of a premium you have to pay for these
systems over a reg ducted AC?

I guess Im wondering if its cost effective

 

[Bob Peterson]

When I was checking up on this, the local building codes did not allow you
to do this. They still made you put your foundation below frost line. I
also wanted a basement so it was sort of a moot point with me.

 

[laughing rock]

20 years ago I worked for a guy in Washington State that made earth berm
homes.
They were constructed by using premade 4'x8' panel which were slightly arced
2x10's and plywood on both sides. A huge sheet of rubber over the top then
bermed with earth. Both ends were regular frame construction. They were
warm in the winter, cool in the summer, quiet, but rather dark. The arch
made building in cabinets etc a bit more challenging.
Sorry, I can't tell you about the square foot cost, more than conventional
stick framing, but way cheaper than a concrete berm home.
These were two story homes. I remember one photo that showed a D-6 cat
sitting on top of one of the finished berm homes. (Yes they were strong).
One I worked in had a small wood stove that heated the place. In the winter
a small fire would keep it warm for 24 hours.
I'd like to see one today to see how well they held up.

LR

 

[daestrom]

When I was checking up on this, the local building codes did not allow you
to do this. They still made you put your foundation below frost line. I
also wanted a basement so it was sort of a moot point with me.

I've kind of wondered about this too. Granted, once the soil is bermed, the
original ground level soil won't freeze. But what about the question of
putting the building right on this original level soil? Wouldn't it need
special compaction to avoid settling? If it had plant's growing in it
(grass, trees, whatever), wouldn't it be 'spongy' and not make for very good
foundation?

Seems like digging down a ways is not only beneficial in getting below any
frost line, but also gets the footers on some 'solid ground' and not spongy,
decaying plant matter. Berming will solve the frost line issue, but not the
'solid ground' issue.

daestrom

 

[[email protected]]

http://www.nahbrc.org/Docs/SubsystemNav/Foundations/3808_NAHB_fpsf.pdf

Interesting site. BTW, HUD's version of the FPSF manual is free, vs the
NAHB reprint. I wouldn't hesitate to use the parts of these guidelines
that apply to unheated buildings, even if not yet approved in the US,
given the millions of successful Scandinavian applications.

Nick

 

[Anthony Matonak]

I've kind of wondered about this too. Granted, once the soil is bermed, the
original ground level soil won't freeze. But what about the question of
putting the building right on this original level soil? Wouldn't it need
special compaction to avoid settling? If it had plant's growing in it
(grass, trees, whatever), wouldn't it be 'spongy' and not make for very good
foundation?

Topsoil (the part with plants growing in it) usually only consists of
of the first few inches down. Scraping this off is much easier than
digging down several feet. Compacting the soil likely needs to be done
anyhow and is neither complicated or expensive.

Anthony

 

[[email protected]]

The resale value of a one story bermed house will usually

not be nearly as good as that of a conventional home.

Yes.... I would only build a one story berm.... i.e. basically a
basement with a roof.

 

[Gary]

http://www.nahbrc.org/Docs/SubsystemNav/Foundations/3808_NAHB_fpsf.pdf

Interesting site. BTW, HUD's version of the FPSF manual is free, vs the
NAHB reprint. I wouldn't hesitate to use the parts of these guidelines
that apply to unheated buildings, even if not yet approved in the US,
given the millions of successful Scandinavian applications.

Nick

Its interesting that they say never to use this technique on unheated
buildings. Around here (Montana -- 8500 deg-days) thickened edge slabs
are very commonly used for both heated and unheated workshops, garages,
etc.

The "old timer" who did the grading for my thickened edge slab felt that
the key is to make sure that there is good drainage so that surface
water does not accumulate in the soil below the building. He has a
large heated workshop and an unheated storage building built 20 years
ago with the thickened edge slab, and has had no problems with frost
heaving.

Gary

 

[Mike Wilcox]

Yes.... I would only build a one story berm.... i.e. basically a
basement with a roof.

I knew a guy who lived this way for years after his house burned to
the foundation. He simply roofed over his foundation and put in
skylights.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes.... I would only build a one story berm.... i.e. basically a

I knew a guy who lived this way for years after his house burned to
the foundation. He simply roofed over his foundation and put in
skylights.

How did he like it?

Was it nice inside?

How was his utility bills?

 

[Mike Wilcox]

How did he like it?

Was it nice inside?

How was his utility bills?

It was quite a place, always warm and bright with the sky lights. It
looked a strange from the outside though, the house was originally a two
story Victorian with an exterior entrance to the basement at the side of
the house. He left this entrance way as it was originally, which without
the house looked like an outhouse in the middle of the yard ;~).
I don't know what his utilities cost, this way over 40 years ago.

 

[Graig Pearen]

I wound up with 2 copies of each of two excellent books on the subject (an e-bay bidding error). If
you would like a copy of each, I have $16 US invested in the pair so you can have them for that plus
postage.

The first is:
Earth Sheltered Housing Design
subtitled "guidelines, examples, and references"
by The Underground Space Center, University of Minnesota

The other is:
The Underground House Book
by Stu Campbell

Graig