Danaher buys Keithley

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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
On Mon, 4 Oct 2010 16:38:13 -0700, "Joel Koltner"

Perhaps they were right. IBM didn't make any money on PCs either.
...although if they hadn't made PCs, I suspect there's a good chance they'd be
completely out of business today?
No. Other than being excellent terminals, PCs were a total waste of time for
IBM. That really was their justification in the first place. The original PC
was about the same price as a semi-dumb terminal of the time.

Not in Europe and that was one of the problems. Even with roughly
half-off for employees the clones were still cheaper.
Huh? IBM's product justification had nothing to do with the competition's
prices.

They should have paid attention to those though.
IBM's market was always people with money. ;-) When they got in trouble was
when they forgot that.

Today they certainly sell plenty of PCs, even if they are pretty much all
high-end workstations and servers.
Nope. They sell some x-86 servers but the PC business was sold (take it -
please!) to Lenovo.

...but they probably make more money on services, today...
The PC division didn't make money (there were years they did, but overall,
no). They're still in business servicing other's PCs, so one supposes they're
making money there.
If they hadn't artificially tried to keep prices very high I think they
would have had a chance. Somehow it seemed similar what later happened
with a whole genre of chips, the switched capacitor filters. I used them
once on a design, where I had to. Tons of other apps later but there I
went analog or DSP. The only reason was cost.
If they hadn't tried to keep their niche they would have lost more money,
faster. You may think Microchannel was a loser, but from IBM's perspective,
and their customer's, it was exactly what was needed[*]. It did a great job
of P-n-P long before such was possible otherwise.

[*]Note that you and I were not in their target audience.
Then, who was?
Oh, "INTERNATIONAL BUSINESSes". ;-) Other than things like CATIA and similar
(customers like Boeing) they never did well in the engineering or scientific
arenas. Banks wore the same clothes and have more money anyway.

They did really well in the mainframe days, IBM had a reputation to make
things work. Many of they large competitors often couldn't. But somehow
IBM never really thrived in the PC business. Maybe too much key-account
thinking on their part?

Oh, there was *definitely* that. In the semiconductor biz there were times
where I think they were emulating Maxim, or perhaps going them one better. "No
one needs all these damned customers. They cost money!"

I was a consultant most of the time back then so I got
around. Never saw much in terms of PS/2 'puters and none of the hardcore
board developers was talking MicroChannel.
Again, you weren't in their target audience.

Some of the companies I consulted for where rather huge. Ok, but if they
concentrated on the few even bigger ones then maybe that was a mistake.

If you weren't buying mainframes, or later their consultancy, you weren't big
enough.

And that was the key mistake. Companies of larger and larger sizes no
longer needed mainframes. The writing had been on the wall for a long,
long time.

Except that they're still shipping more and more of them. Dollar-wise, no,
but it is still a $10B business (about 10% of the company).

Yes, if you make one dedicated product and then not change its design
for a decade or so. That was different in our biz, we made sure we were
flexible WRT the PC platform. Not so much for pricing reasons but to be
able to use the latest and greatest in imaging stations. No way we'd
ever even consider a proprietary bus or OS.

The money was saved in the configuration and maintenance costs.

Yep, that's the other problem. 50% plus of an ultrasound machine can
nowadays be commodity products. Frame grabbers, special graphics cards
and so on. That stuff has got to run. Even if a vendor would support
some proprietary bus or OS, if they did that with only a few months
delay that would have made us miss a major trade show. No way we were
going to let that happen.

That's why I eventually went to Windows *and* why I haven't gone to Linux. No
matter how much the Linuxphools scream about hardware support, it is *not*
there.

 

[Joerg]

Well, Windows certainly does have the the largest number of available
drivers, but isn't the better question whether or not Linux supports the
hardware you're looking to use or not?

With a PC you never know. Once a client had rented an older
Rohde&Schwarz portable spectrum analyzer. It had ... <gasp> ... an IrDA
port and some strange proprietary converter came with it. Along with an
install CD with, you guessed it, only a Windows installer on there. I'd
really been up the creek there with a Linux laptop, couldn't have done
my job.

Then, during a meeting at a chip design house lately, my client's
engineer wanted to runs his presentation and turned out only USB jacks
were in the conf table. No VGA. Dang. So they handed him a CD, "here's
the driver, just hit install".

If you're building something that has plenty of custom hardware in it
anyway -- and hence will need to be writing custom drivers -- it's no
longer at all obvious that Windows is the best choice. Heck, look at
how many people here complain about the Tek and Agilent scopes that now
run Windows!

Such gear needs a true RTOS which Windows definitely is not. QNX would
be my first choice there. If it really needs an OS. The DSO here is a
classic example why this stuff often doesn't really need one. AFAICT it
doesn't have any OS yet is fully remote controllable.

Even on the application side, I'd argue that many applications (like,
oh, say, those used to configure intercom systems) don't typically make
use of much proprietary technology within an operating system (e.g.,
DirectX and COM for PCs, perhaps stuff like named FIFOs in Linux,
whatever the Mac OS has [and apparently it has a LOT these days]), etc.,
and hence if you decide from the start you'd like to make a
cross-platform application, it's usually very little additional effort
relative to making something that only runs on one platform.

But what about drivers for some not so common hardware add-on? That's
the most common complaint I heard from Linuxers, "oh, that gizmo would
really be great but I can't use it with Linux".

 

[Joerg]

I suppose I figure that unless your contract specifies that you'll be
bringing a latop with a specific OS on it with you, you couldn't really
be faulted for having a Windowless laptop -- or no laptop whatsoever --
with you, could you? Heck, there are come clients where I expect you
wouldn't be allowed to use your own laptop anyway for security reasons,
and one would just be provided to you.

Of course it isn't specified but there are some things clients have come
to expect from a consultant. That can go quite far. Once an emergency
required me to do an overseas trip, right away, ASAP. No time for their
travel agent to handle my ticket, considering times zones and all that.
They just expected that I plunk down a few thousand for an expensive
short notice ticket and then bill that.

Granted, at least with hardware engineers, Windows is probably what
you'd *expect* most people to have -- but I do remember seeing at least
one guy a decade or so back carrying around a Sun laptop: He was a chip
designer, and his tools ran on Sun's flavor of UNIX.

That must have been odd, a Sun laptop? Never seen one. Even in the 90's
all chip designers I dealt with used PCs. I would have become real
suspicious if they hadn't

I can't imagine they didn't have a spare laptop around they could have
transferred your presentation to if you were sporting, e.g., a Mac?

They did, but he wanted to show all sorts of files and it would have
been a pain to piece that scattering together onto a memory stick. We
had only a few minutes to get this started, had to head back to an airport.

It is a problem, certainly -- particularly with laptops -- although it's
getting better over time. (Unless you figure we'll all still be running
Windows 100 years from now, whatever that replacement OS is going to be
will surely suffer -- as Linux now does -- with a lack of availability
of drivers for some amount of time...).

Keep a Windows-based netbook on hand for those times you need to travel,
even if at home your're a hard-core Linux guy, perhaps?

You could. But it's an extra expense and a laptop is only useful if all
the files and apps are kept up. Hard to do if it sits in a corner at
home all day long.

 

[Joerg]

Agreed, but I think you might have a somewhat higher set of expectations
for that than your clients do.

...or maybe that's why the same people keep extending your contracts?

I don't think they notice such details much, they just worry about that
things get done and problems fixed. Mostly the V.P.Engineering or CEO
signs my agreement and then chucks me the keys, "Here, fix it, and
report back when it's fixed".

Exercise that Platium Visa card? Or are you a proud member of the elite
who pays $2,500/year (plus a one-time $5,000 joining fee) for the
awesomeness of using an American Express Centurion card?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card)

No, I am not a believer in racking up credit card debt. I did have an
Amex card for a while but that was under $100/year. Wasn't happy because
numerous merchants would not accept it. Fees too high, they said. So I
canceled it.

SPARC-based laptops were actually around for quite awhile... even up
until a few years ago, it seems:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/sun_workstation . I've
only ever seen two in person, though -- the chip designer guy I
mentioned, and then at a trade show for a firm that sold them.

Quote "The unit is really too heavy, and more importantly too hot
(especially since you’ll cover the vents), to keep on your lap for
extended periods of time" ... Yikes!

And the budget version is $3k, the workhorse sets you back a cool $9k.

I don't know the percentages, but my impression is that some significant
percentage of Cadence Virtuoso licenses are still for *NIX machines.
Certainly that percentage is shrinking, though. Many Cadence tools
still run on Solaris as well (e.g,.
http://www.cadence.com/rl/Resources/datasheets/virtuoso_ade_fam_ds.pdf).

Our current chip is done on Mentor. Haven't seen Cadence stuff myself in
a long time.

The Linux box is supposed to use Wake-On-Lan to power up the Windows box
and then synchronize files before you even think about doing it manually.



Just kidding, but I'm sure *someone* has done something like this. I
wouldn't put it past, e.g., Jan Panteltje!

Ok, if someone is retired and has a lot of time, maybe. But I like to
keep things simple

 

[[email protected]]

Well, Windows certainly does have the the largest number of available drivers,
but isn't the better question whether or not Linux supports the hardware
you're looking to use or not?

Not really. Windows will support any hardware I might buy. Linux, not
likely, at lest completely.

If you're building something that has plenty of custom hardware in it
anyway -- and hence will need to be writing custom drivers -- it's no longer
at all obvious that Windows is the best choice. Heck, look at how many people
here complain about the Tek and Agilent scopes that now run Windows!

Red herring. They shouldn't be running Linux or MAC O/S, either. A scope is
an appliance.

Even on the application side, I'd argue that many applications (like, oh, say,
those used to configure intercom systems) don't typically make use of much
proprietary technology within an operating system (e.g., DirectX and COM for
PCs, perhaps stuff like named FIFOs in Linux, whatever the Mac OS has [and
apparently it has a LOT these days]), etc., and hence if you decide from the
start you'd like to make a cross-platform application, it's usually very
little additional effort relative to making something that only runs on one
platform.

Even if cross-platform application programming were free (it most certainly is
not), testing is not. Companies support Win only for good reason.

 

[[email protected]]

I suppose I figure that unless your contract specifies that you'll be bringing
a latop with a specific OS on it with you, you couldn't really be faulted for
having a Windowless laptop -- or no laptop whatsoever -- with you, could you?
Heck, there are come clients where I expect you wouldn't be allowed to use
your own laptop anyway for security reasons, and one would just be provided to
you.

Perhaps not faulted for not bringing a Win laptop, but you *will* be faulted
for looking like a damned fool and wasting everyone's time.

Granted, at least with hardware engineers, Windows is probably what you'd
*expect* most people to have -- but I do remember seeing at least one guy a
decade or so back carrying around a Sun laptop: He was a chip designer, and
his tools ran on Sun's flavor of UNIX.


I can't imagine they didn't have a spare laptop around they could have
transferred your presentation to if you were sporting, e.g., a Mac?

By the time the presentation rolls around it's too late. If this is going to
be a problem, such arrangements should be made in advance.

It is a problem, certainly -- particularly with laptops -- although it's
getting better over time.

I certainly don't see it getting better.

(Unless you figure we'll all still be running
Windows 100 years from now, whatever that replacement OS is going to be will
surely suffer -- as Linux now does -- with a lack of availability of drivers
for some amount of time...).

Keep a Windows-based netbook on hand for those times you need to travel, even
if at home your're a hard-core Linux guy, perhaps?

As long as the netbook has all the features of a desktop. ;-)

 

[Joerg]

That's kinda a circular argument, though... "The hardware I might buy is
that which is supported by Windows, therefore Windows will support any
hardware I might buy."

It's like the chicken and the egg. Except that in this case one group
laid just a few eggs, the other several thousand

True, I just think the extra cost is minimal.


But that just isn't true -- the majority of web servers are running
Linux these days, as are the vast majority of home routers, NAS boxes,
media players, etc. Windows is fine for the average desktop computer,
certainly, but in terms of the number of CPUs sold, desktop computers
today are a minority -- embedded is where the real volumes are.

That's right but those are, in Keith's definition, really appliances.
They have one or very few purposes so they get tested for those and
that's it. And even NAS boxes that run Linux often come with a
configuration disk that will only run on Windows machines.

A new USB gizmo OTOH is very different. A driver needs to be written, it
needs to be tested, and then they start looking at the ROI. If 98% of
potential buyers want to plug it into a Windows machine, 1% into a Linux
machine, and the other 1% into a Mac, most likely they'll declare
happiness to be 98%

It's even more so with cut-throat priced stuff. I remember a guy who
needed a big machinist's style on/off button, just that one button, that
connects to USB. So I pointed such a gizmo out to him, five bucks or so.
He almost jumped up, then sank back into his chair ... "There is no
Linux driver".

 

[[email protected]]

That's kinda a circular argument, though... "The hardware I might buy is that
which is supported by Windows, therefore Windows will support any hardware I
might buy."

Not at all. Windows will support *anything* that I might want in the future.
I can have no such dreams with Linux.

True, I just think the extra cost is minimal.

The cost of testing is *NOT* minimal. Support costs *real* money.

But that just isn't true -- the majority of web servers are running Linux
these days, as are the vast majority of home routers, NAS boxes, media
players, etc. Windows is fine for the average desktop computer, certainly,
but in terms of the number of CPUs sold, desktop computers today are a
minority -- embedded is where the real volumes are.

Different market. How many printers and scanners do you plug into your NAS
box?

 

[josephkk]

Not really. Windows will support any hardware I might buy. Linux, not
likely, at lest completely.

I want to ask about that, just about anything i try now just works in
Linux these days. vVidia and ATI(AMD) have drivers for all their display
adapters. USB to serial and parallel port adapters mostly just work, SCSI
cards mostly just work, internal and external mass storage (including raid
now) mostly just works, NAS just looks like a SAMBA server and just works.
Laptops are still having some problems but that is really down to a dull
rumble compared to a few years ago.

Pick your configuration and we will see if it just works or not. If you
are really picky, just select a box with linux already installed from HP
or Dell

If you're building something that has plenty of custom hardware in it
anyway -- and hence will need to be writing custom drivers -- it's no longer
at all obvious that Windows is the best choice. Heck, look at how manypeople
here complain about the Tek and Agilent scopes that now run Windows!

Red herring. They shouldn't be running Linux or MAC O/S, either. A scope is
an appliance.

Even on the application side, I'd argue that many applications (like, oh, say,
those used to configure intercom systems) don't typically make use of much
proprietary technology within an operating system (e.g., DirectX and COM for
PCs, perhaps stuff like named FIFOs in Linux, whatever the Mac OS has [and
apparently it has a LOT these days]), etc., and hence if you decide from the
start you'd like to make a cross-platform application, it's usually very
little additional effort relative to making something that only runs onone
platform.

Even if cross-platform application programming were free (it most certainly is
not), testing is not. Companies support Win only for good reason.

 

[Joerg]

I'd say the way to look at it would be... Windows machines are some, say
85% of the market, Macs are 5-10%, and Linux is 1-2%. But just as
Windows is so heavily dominant, it also means that the barriers to entry
are much higher: If you make a really cool USB gizmo, if you're lucky
perhaps you might get a couple percent of the Windows market (since
there's so much competition), but you could get rather a lot of the Mac
or Linux market. E.g., 10% of the Mac market is more than 1% of the
Windows market, and I kinda think that there are certain peripherals
where garnering that 10% of the Mac market is, if anything, easier than
1% of Windows.

Yeah, I was exagerating with that 98%. But that 85% number certainly
doesn't apply around here. One elderly lady in our neighborhood had a
Mac but she has moved away since. You could certainly build something
that only goes into a niche market like Macs, whole companies make a
living that way. But the bigger fish to fry are in the Windows world. If
I had a great idea for a gizmo that's where I'd go.

I guess I figure that, at the end of the day, you can make money
developing hardware and/or software for any operating system today --
and if you're good, I also tend to think there's more money in Macs
right now than PCs, and of course the obvious draw for *hardware*
development with Linux is that you don't have to pay per copy OS costs.
(For software development, well... a lot of those Linux guys think
everything should be free; I view Linux software development more as a
charitable contribution to society than something I'd expect to make
much money at, even though there certainly as and even I own some copies
of commercial Linux software. )

It's a somewhat different market, but look at how many apps there are
now for iPhones vs. Windows Mobile -- the later seemed like a pretty big
market up until a few years ago, and these days there's far more
software for iPhones than there *ever* was for Windows Mobile. And it
doesn't stop there -- Google's Android looks poised to potentially
displace iPhones as the most popular phone OS development platform in
the near future.

To me that's more the world of gadgets. PCs increase my productivity,
big time. I wouldn't know what to do with an iPhone though. Never really
understood what is so important to mankind in a phone that can do apps.
Heck, I haven't even used text messaging on my cell phone except once,
to transmit a phone number.

Or look at all the products you consult for -- many of them do roughly
the same things as readily avaialble products from much better known and
much more popular names, right? Yet someone decides to build an
ever-so-slightly different widget because they figure there's a market
around that will pay for whatever nichey enhancements their widget has
over the competition -- it's a little sturdier or a little faster or a
little more interference resistant or whatever, right? ...

Actually, the novelty factor must be somewhat higher than that. With the
exception of where it replaces something that is or is perceived as
unreliable.

... Money goes
around, engineers get to have fun developing this stuff, and life goes
on. I would think one of the reasons you continue working as a
consultant is the exposure to multiple projects and technologies --
however nichey they might be -- rather than being lumped as, "oh, that's
Joerg, he does all the ultrasound catheters designs these days and
nothing else -- he's been here for a couple decades now," right?
Software guys often feel the same way -- there's nothing wrong with
Windows, but it can be a lot of fun to code for other OSes as well, and
usually there's some angle that allows for profitability there too.

Yes, I enjoy the multitude of projects. Except for two clients in the ag
sector none is even remotely in a similar business than any other.

Sounds like a poor design -- I can't imagine why something that's a "big
machinist's style on/off button" wouldn't present itself as a regular
old USB keyboard, and as such should work just fine on Windows, Macs,
Linux boxes, and even many cell phones without anyone needing to write a
new driver.

I don't remember the details but for some reason it had to not be a
remote keyboard emulation.

 

[Joerg]

news:[email protected]...

[...]

But that just isn't true -- the majority of web servers are running Linux
these days, as are the vast majority of home routers, NAS boxes, media
players, etc. Windows is fine for the average desktop computer, certainly,
but in terms of the number of CPUs sold, desktop computers today are a
minority -- embedded is where the real volumes are.

Different market. How many printers and scanners do you plug into your NAS
box?

Believe it or not, I currently have a HP Laser plugged into my firewall
router. No, not into a LAN port but into its good old parallel port. It
turns a connected regular printer into a network printer.

 

[Joerg]

Hi Joerg,



Macs definitely have much stronger market penetration with youngins'.

When strolling the grounds of Sac State University the other day on the
way to a session I arrived early. So I watched what sort of computers
students were using. Almost everyone had a laptop open in front of them,
or netbook. AFAICT they were all Windows-based. Ok, everyone was around
20 or older so maybe that isn't the group of "youngins"

[...]

Understood, and that's certainly how it should be... but the "home" PC
market is larger than the "work" PC market, and almost by definition
people use their home PCs primarily for games, word processing, web
surfing (and I don't mean for looking up data sheets), and so on.

Not just that. A central function of the family or kid's PC is doing
homework on it. Then it better be compatible with whatever the school is
using. I guess showing up with an ODF document would result in minor
problems. But AFAIK Macs can nowadays red MS-Office docs so maybe it's
ok by now.

Most of the economy today is creating gadgets. And it's not like you'd
turn down a consulting job to, say, improve the EMI or ESD performance
of something like a game console (...no productivity increase
whatsoever; 100% recreational...), right?

Of course not, I'd probably enjoy that. So far I have never worked on
any game consoles. Well, I built Pong as a kid, out of chips from
discarded computer boards. Unsoldered with dad's butane blowtorch. But
the instant it worked I gave it away because then the fun was gone.

My wife and I probably exchange upwards of a dozen texts per months.
Amazingly, most teens today send *well over a thousand text messages per
month*. So while I don't quite get all the attraction either, from a
business point of view I'll be more than happy to work on the gadgets
that those folks are willing to pay a couple hundred bucks plus then
upwards of another hundred bucks a month for!

1000 texts is nothing. One kid recently said to be sending 5000/mo, at
the very least. Yikes! Carpal tunnel syndrome waiting to happen.

Check out these graphs:
http://www.digitalbuzzblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Adult-Mobile-Phone-Statistics.jpg
- - amazing, eh?

That is amazing. I guess I have become an atypical person because I've
never slept with my cell phone in the bed and my average number of text
messages per day is 0.5e-3 so far.

 

[Joerg]

^^^ This reminds me... this:

is one of
several videos promoting Southern Oregon University (in Ashland) that
plays before the movies at the local theatres. Notice all the Macs...
heck, I believe that video was made on a Mac, and if Trisha Zimmerman
has a laptop at all, I'd bet it's a Mac!

Sure, in the area of arts and journalism you'll find lots of Apple
computers. They do have a very easy learning curve for non-tech folks.
When the email on the Mac of the elderly lady croaked I was able to fix
it easily even though she could not find any manuals. Apple did a nice
job in that department.

Some of these promotional videos are pretty bad, however; they sure
wouldn't make me want to attend. See, e.g.:

... scary!

Hard business

 

[Joerg]

Try visiting, e.g., the California Institute of the Arts (Valencia) or
College of the Arts (San Francisco) some time -- I bet it's quite
different.

With my political convictions they'd probably try to pummel me rather
quickly

While I know you're not that big of a fan of PDF, that's what I'd think
(hope) a school would be after -- supported on pretty much all platforms
today, and you can use whatever word processor you feel like. ...

AFAIK it's usually done in MS-Word. PDF cannot easily be edited unless
you plunk down serious money, and then it's still probably a clumsy
process. Thing is, kids need to learn what they can use on the job
later, and that's Word and Excel. Unfortunately not database teaching,
for whatever reason.

... (Some
kids no doubt have masochist parents who'd like to introduce their kids
to LaTeX, after all! )

My sister tried to talk me into that. But there I am a bit bone-headed.
When I find something that works, such as MS-Word (older versions, of
course), I just stick with it.

 

[[email protected]]

I am always somewhat amused how, at high-powered technical conferences (e.g.,
those by the IEEE) there's still typically plenty of fumbling with getting
PowerPoint to work and getting the projector hooked up and all.

The "high powered technical conferences" I've been to have all the
presentations loaded and the equipment ready to go long in advance. The only
one I remember that had technical troubles was Intel's introduction of the
iAPX-432. The hotel was against them (elevators going to the wrong or
non-existent floors, fire alarms going off at random times,...). They should
have taken it as an omen. ;-)

I did see a presentation a couple weeks ago now where the presenter was using
Keynote on a Mac (the equivalent of PowerPoint) along with his iPhone that
functioned both as the remote for advancing slides as well as displaying his
speaker's notes, a small version of the slides, etc. Very slick -- definitely
more "style" points that folks using Windows & PowerPoint.

I seem to recall that our own Tim Wescott here gives professional (as in, paid
for with real money) presentations in OpenOffice Impress on a Linux laptop. I
guess he would have failed the, "...but we don't have a VGA input to this
project!" test...


I was surprised as just how little I missed a CD/DVD-ROM drive in a netbook.
Even if you buy a copy of Microsoft Office at, e.g., Costco today, while
there's a CD in the box there's also a URL to where you can just download the
entire thing if you're on a netbook and don't have a portable or networked CD
ROM drive handy.

I've used the DVD drive in my laptop, I think, twice in six months. Once was
to reload Win. :-(

 

[[email protected]]

When strolling the grounds of Sac State University the other day on the
way to a session I arrived early. So I watched what sort of computers
students were using. Almost everyone had a laptop open in front of them,
or netbook. AFAICT they were all Windows-based. Ok, everyone was around
20 or older so maybe that isn't the group of "youngins"

When we're in B&N or Panera I look around to see what people are using. I see
about 25%, or better, Macs. I keep thinking about getting my wife a Mac, but
then I see the price.

Not just that. A central function of the family or kid's PC is doing
homework on it. Then it better be compatible with whatever the school is
using. I guess showing up with an ODF document would result in minor
problems. But AFAIK Macs can nowadays red MS-Office docs so maybe it's
ok by now.

More and more schools are specifying or even supplying computers for students.

Of course not, I'd probably enjoy that. So far I have never worked on
any game consoles. Well, I built Pong as a kid, out of chips from
discarded computer boards. Unsoldered with dad's butane blowtorch. But
the instant it worked I gave it away because then the fun was gone.

I worked on a couple. Well, the processors in a couple. ;-)

1000 texts is nothing. One kid recently said to be sending 5000/mo, at
the very least. Yikes! Carpal tunnel syndrome waiting to happen.

I think I've received three, all from my brother on birthdays. I told him
they cost me money. A call doesn't. His daughter told him the same thing, be
he doesn't listen to her either. ;-)

That is amazing. I guess I have become an atypical person because I've
never slept with my cell phone in the bed and my average number of text
messages per day is 0.5e-3 so far.

Mine sits on the nightstand, with my wallet and keys. I'd forget it
otherwise. I run on autopilot until I've gotten to work and finished the
first coffee (decaf, even).

 

[[email protected]]

news:[email protected]...

[...]

Companies support Win only for good reason.
But that just isn't true -- the majority of web servers are running Linux
these days, as are the vast majority of home routers, NAS boxes, media
players, etc. Windows is fine for the average desktop computer, certainly,
but in terms of the number of CPUs sold, desktop computers today are a
minority -- embedded is where the real volumes are.

Different market. How many printers and scanners do you plug into your NAS
box?

Believe it or not, I currently have a HP Laser plugged into my firewall
router. No, not into a LAN port but into its good old parallel port. It
turns a connected regular printer into a network printer.

Try that with a printer made in the last ten years. ;-)

 

[[email protected]]

I'd agree with Linux, but even you might want, e.g., some peripherals that are
only available for Macs one of these days.

Sure, complete with the Mac premium.

Well, I'd agree it seldom makes sense to produce software for a given platform
if sales aren't large enough to recover extra cost of testing on that
platform. I.e., each platform should be "self supporting."

....and proven profitable. *THAT* is a circular problem that the counters of
beans will win every time.

Not too many.

If we are talking just strictly desktop PCs, Windows is certainly the easiest
choice for maximum compatibility.

Well, for toasted bread I find a toaster works best. ;-)

 

[[email protected]]

I want to ask about that, just about anything i try now just works in
Linux these days. vVidia and ATI(AMD) have drivers for all their display
adapters. USB to serial and parallel port adapters mostly just work, SCSI
cards mostly just work, internal and external mass storage (including raid
now) mostly just works, NAS just looks like a SAMBA server and just works.
Laptops are still having some problems but that is really down to a dull
rumble compared to a few years ago.

You have a *very* different experience than I do. I couldn't even get Linux
to run on my system last time I tried. The text was in about a 1e-9 font and
there was no way to get it out of that mode. Looking at printer and scanner
compatibility lists, most don't support Linux completely. The ones that are
incomplete really mean "NO".

Pick your configuration and we will see if it just works or not. If you
are really picky, just select a box with linux already installed from HP
or Dell

IME, it's the add-ons down the line that usually don't work. I fought it long
enough that I just gave up.

<...>

 

[Joerg]

When we're in B&N or Panera I look around to see what people are using. I see
about 25%, or better, Macs. I keep thinking about getting my wife a Mac, but
then I see the price.

Bookstores are where the "intellectuals" often hang out, they aren't
exactly representative for the average Joe. The fact that us guys aren't
much of a part of that is often evidenced by how much the electronics
book section has shriveled. Last time I looked it wasn't even 3ft worth
of shelf space :-(

Fiction, novels, esoteric stuff, there they had tons of books. Oh, and
they didn't even carry AoE. So I stopped going to bookstores, nothin'
there for me no more. If I need a book I preview and order online.

More and more schools are specifying or even supplying computers for students.

Here goes the tax Dollar ...

When I was a kid we had to buy any and all of our supplies, including
books. Only poor families got help there. And we re-sold our books to
next year's class when done. That's how it ought to be.


[...]

I think I've received three, all from my brother on birthdays. I told him
they cost me money. A call doesn't. His daughter told him the same thing, be
he doesn't listen to her either. ;-)

Seriously, some people have a tiny hidden phobia about picking up a
phone and initiating a call. But they have none of that when in front of
a keyboard or keypad. Beats me why but I've seen that a lot.

Mine sits on the nightstand, with my wallet and keys. I'd forget it
otherwise. I run on autopilot until I've gotten to work and finished the
first coffee (decaf, even).

Mine's not even turned on, neither night nor day. It's only on when I am
on a business trip.