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Custom AC power switch

  • Thread starter Jonathan Kirwan
  • Start date
J

John Crighton

My autistic daughter has burned up a few microwave ovens. She loves to cook,
but places the popcorn inside and then presses 3 3 3 and START. Since that is
3:33 minutes and since the popcorn only wants 2 minutes, it often burns horribly
or else bursts into flame.

Having a "popcorn" button on the microwave is completely useless. I've tried to
teach her to use it, but she is about like a 3 year old and simply won't get the
picture. So I considered the idea of plastic cards with pictures on them that
she could "bring near" or "wave" by the front panel of the microwave unit, but
I'd need to completely redesign the front panel electronics and ... I'd rather
not attempt to bite that one off, just yet. It's an idea that would probably
work, and I've tried to interest Amana/Maytag in the idea of fielding UL
approved microwave units for "special needs," but the interest was nearly zero.

She's also very good at plugging things in, if the plugs are visible. Hot plate
burners, toasters, microwave ovens, toaster ovens, etc. If it can be plugged
and she thinks she might be able to make a melted cheese sandwich in the middle
of the night, well.... I might wake up to a terrible smoke in the house, because
she found a burner we'd set aside and plugged it in and got a pan and bread
slices and cheese and forgot about the whole thing, after turning on the burner.

We have to be able to cook, ourselves, with some level of convenience. And
locking everything up, keeping the main power breakers off for the main stove,
etc., makes doing routine things not nearly so routine. Since the main problem
in her habits is the microwave unit, I placed it into a cabinet with power where
she cannot see or reach it. When I need to use it, I pull the entire unit out
into my arms, reach back and plug it in, place it back and then use it. Then
reverse the process, if I'm not otherwise distracted. If I do forget, I can
often expect another burned bag of popcorn a few hours later.

I can arrange to place a hidden switch, I suppose. But I don't want to bring AC
power out to a switch near someone's fingers and it wouldn't solve my forgetting
to switch it back (having a 20 year old running around the house, with a playful
mind of a 3-5 year old, leads to many distractions and I'm not getting any
younger and my memory isn't quite as good as it once was.) So I started
considering other options, such as low-voltage signaling, etc., for a remote
power switch I could hide inline with the microwave unit behind the cabinet and
which would automatically turn off the power supply, even if I forgot.

(I'm no analog power designer. A small time hobbyist and an embedded programmer
type.)

I'm imagining this functionality:

* A pneumatic switch driven by aquarium tubing, where I can snip off
an appropriate amount from the point of the AC power controller back
to some convenient location where I will place a bladder/bulb that I
can squeeze when I want to enable to power to a device/circuit. This
would start/initiate the circuit.

* A self-contained power controller unit with an AC-in and an AC-out,
and a nipple for that aquarium tubing (goes to the pneumatic switch
inside, which feeds a microcontroller's input pin to notify it.)

* The ability to control a single 15 amp circuit at 125V RMS AC, 60 HZ.

* The system would do several things, once activated. First, a timer
starts (programmable by means I can determine) and the power simply
stays ON for this duration, no matter what. Second, if in that time
the circuit draw exceeds about 0.1 amp, then the circuit stays enabled
so long as that draw or more continues without abatement. If it does
fall back to near zero, then the timer overrides if there is still
more time. If not, the circuit goes OFF 20 seconds after the load is
removed. I need to reactivate it, if I need to reuse it.

* I'm not looking for dimming, here. This is an ON/OFF controller, not
a zero-cross, cycle-by-cycle or phase-angle dimmer.

* The time delay for the circuit can be programmed through the pneumatic
switch, using a "long-held pulse" on the bulb that the micro would
detect, followed by a series of short pulses to count up to the minutes
I'd like to program into it. A long pause after that would commit the
time to memory.

I can handle the mechanicals for the pneumatic switch, tubing, nipples, and
bulb. That's an easy and cheap part. I can also handle the microcontroller
circuit -- the digital parts of this. I believe I can also handle creating a
modest power handling circuit to supply the necessary DC for the micro (less
than a milliwatt total) and any zero-cross measurements of the AC cycles I may
need.

However, what I do not feel comfortable dealing with or making the better design
choices for turning the AC power ON and OFF, whether a relay, a TRIAC, etc., or
designing well for monitoring mean AC load current. And dealing with safety
issues I might not be aware of, even if the circuit is hidden away and not out
where someone might touch it. Because it might be hidden, I have to be sure it
is not going to create its own fire hazard.

I've been doing soldering and wiring for some 30 years now, so I'm now modestly
competent at decent layout, adequate wire selection for the currents needed, and
proper wiring harnessing.

I'm interested in existing devices to do this, first and foremost. I'd rather
not fabricate my own solution if one already exists that is close to what I
want. But if not, I'm interested in any viable options or ideas for the AC
power control and for the AC load current monitoring functions, from the
perspective of using a microcontroller.

Or suggestions about a "better way." (But on that score, no one else really
knows or understands exactly how we live our lives here and I'm the only proper
judge about what can work in our life style. My description above is
necessarily reduced from the truer reality. Still, I'm open to ideas.)

Jon

Without getting into technicalities I am guessing that, with
say, the microwave oven you want to modify the oven to
work up to 2 minutes maximum when your daughter uses it.
Then when you or your wife come along the microwave
oven will work normally with no fuss.

Some sort of radio control gadget comes to mind.
You and your wife wear a pendant round your necks
like a piece of jewellery that emits a radio signal. A
gadget inside the microwave oven or hidden behind
the power outlet point receives the signal and disables
the 2 minute timer. The oven can then work normally.

You use the oven for how ever long you set it and
it keeps working even though you walk away out of
radio range. When the oven times out from whatever
your cooking it reverts back to the 2 minute maximum
time again.

Is that the sort of thing you are looking for?

Regards,
John Crighton
Hornsby
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Without getting into technicalities I am guessing that, with
say, the microwave oven you want to modify the oven to
work up to 2 minutes maximum when your daughter uses it.

No, she should never be able to turn it on. What I want her to do is to "ask"
us, through sign language, hand-guiding, or other means. But she will use it
for odd things, not just popcorn, if she can use it in the middle of the night.
Cheese, bread, etc. Bread gets pretty bad in just a half-minute, let alone two
minutes. She should not ever be able to turn it on.
Then when you or your wife come along the microwave
oven will work normally with no fuss.

We should be able to activate it conveniently.
Some sort of radio control gadget comes to mind.
You and your wife wear a pendant round your necks
like a piece of jewellery that emits a radio signal. A
gadget inside the microwave oven or hidden behind
the power outlet point receives the signal and disables
the 2 minute timer. The oven can then work normally.

A long time ago, I was talking with a guy who has worked with chimpanzees since
the 1960's with the Garnders, teaching them to sign. He hated researchers who
used colored plastic chips to teach communication. Why? He said, "What if you
don't have the chips around? They get frustrated. It's not good. They should
be taught to communicate with what they always have with them, their hands."

It's like that. I don't want to be stuck at some point having to waste time
finding the RF gadget. It is really too much to ask to have it hanging around
my neck all the time. I work on my acreage a lot, jog, go to stores, etc. I
live a life. And if it falls off, gets damaged, etc.. Well, you get the idea.

And heck, she will see what it does (as she does with remote controls, already)
and then start begging or grabbing for it. And I'll just have to fight her and
that itself will make my life worse for the wear.

No. It needs to be something near the unit that I can easily and always find.
You use the oven for how ever long you set it and
it keeps working even though you walk away out of
radio range. When the oven times out from whatever
your cooking it reverts back to the 2 minute maximum
time again.

Is that the sort of thing you are looking for?

Except for the above comments... perhaps.

Jon
 
J

John Crighton

No, she should never be able to turn it on. What I want her to do is to "ask"
us, through sign language, hand-guiding, or other means. But she will use it
for odd things, not just popcorn, if she can use it in the middle of the night.
Cheese, bread, etc. Bread gets pretty bad in just a half-minute, let alone two
minutes. She should not ever be able to turn it on.


We should be able to activate it conveniently.


A long time ago, I was talking with a guy who has worked with chimpanzees since
the 1960's with the Garnders, teaching them to sign. He hated researchers who
used colored plastic chips to teach communication. Why? He said, "What if you
don't have the chips around? They get frustrated. It's not good. They should
be taught to communicate with what they always have with them, their hands."

It's like that. I don't want to be stuck at some point having to waste time
finding the RF gadget. It is really too much to ask to have it hanging around
my neck all the time. I work on my acreage a lot, jog, go to stores, etc. I
live a life. And if it falls off, gets damaged, etc.. Well, you get the idea.

And heck, she will see what it does (as she does with remote controls, already)
and then start begging or grabbing for it. And I'll just have to fight her and
that itself will make my life worse for the wear.

No. It needs to be something near the unit that I can easily and always find.


Except for the above comments... perhaps.

Jon

I am gradually getting the picture. I have heard
that pet door flaps can be obtained that only
open when the pet wearing the correct microchip
goes near the door. You work out where you can
wear the chip permanently. A finger ring, a bracelet,
earring or under your skin like a pet does.

You walk into the kitchen all power points are dead,
swipe your wrist past the secret sensor built into the
door frame and the power points become active.
You could add extra interlock secret switches like
pull open a drawer slightly, whistle a quick tone,
before the power points become live.

When you are finished in the kitchen, swipe the
power points off or let them time out automatically
if you forget to swipe them off.

Is that any closer to being practical for you?

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney
 
D

Don Baker

Jon:

We are facing similar problems with 2 grandmothers, 1 76 and one 89
which both are starting to turn into children again.

As part of addressing these problems, I have added "timers" in the AC
line for several things including the microwave oven. I originally went
with a keep it simple approach using a homebrew design and PLC chips.

I changed the wall plugs over to non-standard 30 amp style so nothing
would plug-in directly and you had to use the timer box as a "cable
adapter".

Each timer box was controlled from a common black box using a basic
stamp controller. The front panel had buttons labeled microwave, toaster,
food processor, etc. as well as a simple 10 key keypad for a security code
entry.

I have just completed bench testing my second generation and will
update the remote boxes with the following features:

Current sense and threshholding - this allows the microwave to keep
track of time and stay live but immediately shuts down all ac if energized
for cooking without having "authorization" from the control panel

Local override - turn on without controller by cycling on/off a
predetermined pattern or number of times. Example - override for for
processor by pushing pulse control in (I am using ON in Morse but pick your
own)

Failure indicator led - did someone try to use an appliance without
enabling first

Programmable timeout - If I enable the microwave and walk away without
using it, it will default back to off condition after 5 minutes (again
software time tweakable).

Using the PLC devices and simple switching makes the little black boxes
simple and the controller is running BASIC which is real easy to hack and
slash for your configuration. By using NEMA approved plugs of a less that
standard home format, the appliances can only be plug in via the slave
boxes.
 
A

Adrian Jansen

Don said:
Jon:

We are facing similar problems with 2 grandmothers, 1 76 and one 89
which both are starting to turn into children again.

As part of addressing these problems, I have added "timers" in the AC
line for several things including the microwave oven. I originally went
with a keep it simple approach using a homebrew design and PLC chips.

I changed the wall plugs over to non-standard 30 amp style so nothing
would plug-in directly and you had to use the timer box as a "cable
adapter".

Each timer box was controlled from a common black box using a basic
stamp controller. The front panel had buttons labeled microwave, toaster,
food processor, etc. as well as a simple 10 key keypad for a security code
entry.

A keypad for security sounds reasonable, but maybe the daughter is smart
enough to watch and learn the entry code.

The OP has already knocked back a lot of suggestions, for fairly good
reasons. Maybe its time to step back and think some more about the
underlying goals behind the request.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Design Engineer J & K Micro Systems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.
 
A

Active8

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look them up. The 5mA is about the limit I'd
want to consider for the MSP430 outputs.

I assume I'll need to re-trigger at each zero-cross? Should I be concerned
enough here to make sure I don't trigger until the AC voltage reaches some
threshold for staying on? Or just re-trigger it in a short burst of pulses long
enough to be sure that's true?
You can leave the trigger pulse high for the on interval. The TRIAC
only shuts off and stays off when the AC current drops below the
threshold *and* the trigger is off.
 
P

Paul Mathews

Jonathan said:
I don't want to set up something like that. I'm looking to keep things simple,
effective, to cover my own memory loss should I be distracted and have to deal
with something else. Automatic shutoff is important, but not while the device
is being used.

And she absolutely LOVES remotes. Carries them around, loses them, etc. I'd
really be just asking for more delays in my life, that way.

Jon

1. I'll wager that nothing could be simpler than a minimal X10 system.
2. I can appreciate that you have special problems, but you don't HAVE
to give her the remote or tell her the access codes on a fixed
controller.
pm
 
A

Active8

A keypad for security sounds reasonable, but maybe the daughter is smart
enough to watch and learn the entry code.

There are strong boxes with 4 digit keypads and troughs for 4
fingers so you can do it with the box out of sight. I've heard that
autistics sometimes have amazing abilities. You'd think they were
geniuses or psychic. So I see a potential problem with the squeeze
bulb in that Athena (great name for a girl *or* a project!) might
detect Jon's arm muscle twitching and infer the squeeze code.

Wait one stinkin' minute, screeech! :) Assuming no one can figger
out your code/entry method, what's the difference between a bulb
that actuates a switch 10 feet away and a button that activates a
switch 10 mm away with wires running 10 ft away to where the bulb
activaed switch would have been? That's my "few minutes down the
road" thought (see below.)

I see an alarm switch behind the rear edge of a shelf or something.
Tap out some morse. KISS.
The OP has already knocked back a lot of suggestions, for fairly good
reasons. Maybe its time to step back and think some more about the
underlying goals behind the request.

My best ideas come after I'm a few minutes down the road. Sometimes
just not thinking about something allows the right brain to cut
through the noise.

First I'd check Graybar or some large electrical supplier for low
voltage controlled, isolated relays in a box that can be inserted
into the range and outlet wiring. Note that "lighting & recaptacles"
for each room ends up on the same breaker and the circuit would need
to be split. That sucks.

That'd simplify things - the off-the-shelf relay. Otherwise you just
cram it in a metal box and use an opto isolator. We can help with
that - proper isolation.
 
J

John Woodgate

I read in sci.electronics.design that Active8 <[email protected]>
I've heard that autistics
sometimes have amazing abilities. You'd think they were geniuses or
psychic.

Perhaps not actually psychic, but autism is often associated with exotic
abilities such as lightning calculation. We have in UK a seriously
autistic guy who has a 2500 year calendar in his head, down to day of
the week.
 
R

Robert

[snip]
It's like that. I don't want to be stuck at some point having to waste
time
finding the RF gadget. It is really too much to ask to have it hanging
around
my neck all the time. I work on my acreage a lot, jog, go to stores, etc.
I
live a life. And if it falls off, gets damaged, etc.. Well, you get the
idea.

And heck, she will see what it does (as she does with remote controls,
already)
and then start begging or grabbing for it. And I'll just have to fight
her and
that itself will make my life worse for the wear.

No. It needs to be something near the unit that I can easily and always
find.

I forget if you have decided against biometric devices. Perhaps because of
expense. Possibly some of these commercial companies would be interested in
sponsoring work for the community that you said shares this type of problem.

This link talks about companies having IC fingerprint sensors in the $50
range though the sensors output would still have to be matched against the
allowed users:
http://www.biometricaccess.com/company/n_050798.htm
<snip>
Two of the IC approaches--one from SGS-Thomson, the other from Veridicom, a
spin-off of Lucent Technologies' Bell Laboratories ( www.bell-labs.com)--are
dc-capacitive sensors. Harris Semiconductor Corp's FingerLoc is an
ac-capacitive sensor. The fourth approach, Thomson-CSF's FingerChip, uses
thermal sensing.
Like most optical fingerprint sensors, each IC sensor produces a
high-resolution (several-hundred-pixels by several-hundred-pixels by 8 or 16
bits) image of a finger tip.
<snip>


STMicroelectronics has a fingerprint detector module.
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/support/touchip/

This site has fingerprint detection stand alone modules. As well as parts
that you might cobble something together for your self.
http://www.bioenabletech.com/embeded_optical_fingerprint_modules.htm

This seems to have quite a lot of the companies with products used today:
http://www.precisebiometrics.com/co...555_51355241&GROUPID=20020815_134754_4967429F
 
R

Robert

<snip>

As a follow-up to my other post on biometric sensors. Have you considered
using an old junk PC with Microsoft's fingerprint reader to block access to
logging on the computer except to yourself and your wife? With the PC then
able to unlock the Power switch through the USB or Parallel Port? That could
either be a custom bit of electronics or I've heard of off the shelf
electronics that run off the Parallel Port.

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=035

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=036
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

1. I'll wager that nothing could be simpler than a minimal X10 system.

The definition of "simpler" depends on all the details. I'm not convinced it
would be simpler. But then, I know my situation well.
2. I can appreciate that you have special problems, but you don't HAVE
to give her the remote or tell her the access codes on a fixed
controller.

I've already been down this road with a great many devices relying on handhelds
such as remotes. You can take my word for it -- this isn't a good solution for
my circumstances. She will perseverate on them. And this *will* be a problem
for me.

Sorry it's been some time for a response, but I've been away on a business trip.

Jon
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

I am gradually getting the picture. I have heard
that pet door flaps can be obtained that only
open when the pet wearing the correct microchip
goes near the door. You work out where you can
wear the chip permanently. A finger ring, a bracelet,
earring or under your skin like a pet does.

You walk into the kitchen all power points are dead,
swipe your wrist past the secret sensor built into the
door frame and the power points become active.
You could add extra interlock secret switches like
pull open a drawer slightly, whistle a quick tone,
before the power points become live.

When you are finished in the kitchen, swipe the
power points off or let them time out automatically
if you forget to swipe them off.

Is that any closer to being practical for you?

Yes. That is pretty good, I think. I don't know if I mentioned this before,
but one of the things I considered was using an RFID encapsulated into a plastic
credit card, upon which I'd paste a picture for her. She could grab that card
and wave it near the microwave and all the necessary particulars would be
automatically programmed in. This would be an optimal solution for the
microwave, as I'm sure she could handle the popcorn picture just fine. It would
allow me to program copies of the same card or also to program other cards for
other foods I might want to test her with, each with their own pictures. That
microwave idea isn't general enough for other power outlets, most of which I
don't want her using at all. But the microwave is something she is *almost*
able to handle, if only something like the card existed today.

The idea you mention above might work (room-wide basis.) I could see how if it
was too inconvenient. My gut tells me it would be trouble, though. I really
need the ability to experiment on a per-item basis with her, so that I can
tinker to get the whole picture right. An example would be that I shut off, by
default, too many things and that this causes her to stress out and wreck havoc
elsewhere in the middle of the night. Not being able to turn on the room lights
would be a specific example of this. I'd be able to anticipate some of this,
but really it would need to be convenient to change whatever the current
arrangement was.

Sorry about the delay. Was on a business trip.

Jon
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

We are facing similar problems with 2 grandmothers, 1 76 and one 89
which both are starting to turn into children again.

Ah. Yes.

One of the problems in providing a commercial product into markets like this, it
seems to me, is that the problems are semi-custom. Each person's needs have
their unique aspects, which arranges the priorities in different order. I
suspect that the various needs probably break down into a few definable
categories, but I don't really know. I do know my daughter, though.
As part of addressing these problems, I have added "timers" in the AC
line for several things including the microwave oven. I originally went
with a keep it simple approach using a homebrew design and PLC chips.

Okay. I'm also thinking of a homebrew design, now.
I changed the wall plugs over to non-standard 30 amp style so nothing
would plug-in directly and you had to use the timer box as a "cable
adapter".

Ah. Now, that's an idea I can and should consider for some of the problems I'm
facing. Not all, but some.
Each timer box was controlled from a common black box using a basic
stamp controller. The front panel had buttons labeled microwave, toaster,
food processor, etc. as well as a simple 10 key keypad for a security code
entry.

One of the problems I'm facing that this does NOT solve for me, is that Athena
will observe the use of these devices. She will NOT be able to learn the secret
codes, I'm sure. So that's to the good. But she will KNOW that she doesn't and
cannot figure it out. And this will very much frustrate and anger her. The
result of that will probably be having these devices thrown around the room,
thrown outside the door into the yard, pestering us to help her and punch in the
code and plug it in, etc.

To make this point even clearer, in case others don't know, there was a time
many many years ago that others tried to tell us that we needed to get Athena
sleeping on a so-called "normal sleeping cycle." (They were just trying to be
helpful, because my wife and I were having a hard time dealing with our own
schedules in combination with Athena's bizarre system of sleep.) They said we
should lock her in her room until she settled down and went to sleep. Well, the
result was that she would rant and scream and cry and yell -- not just for two
or three hours at a time, but instead of 12-14 hours solid. She'd slam herself
in the door. In one case then, she literally sheered the nails into the studs
and knocked the entire frame out. (Not the first time, nor the last. We've
just started to replace the old door frames with the wrap-around-the-wall types
that are much stronger.) Even after nearly a year trying, no change except that
she was beating us down very well. Letting her find her own cycle has made our
life much easier in the long run and ... well, she still has a bizarre cycle at
20 years old. No change in that. Sometimes 14 or 16 hours is a day to her,
sometimes 36 hours is. Oh, well.

The point here is that she will focus on these and make our lives a real pain
over them. Whatever method we devise for a solution here needs to be one where
the technique for enabling the various systems can be hidden in such a way that
she will think it is entirely "MAGIC" that we use. No technical gizmo can
become the focus. For example, if we have a toaster oven that we just seem to
turn on and use normally without any obvious special means that she can observe,
she will struggle with it on her own for a bit and eventually decide to simply
hand us the food when she wants it cooked that way. And that's fine, the way we
want it. But if she sees us use some "special device" or "special means" and
she makes the connection that this is either now missing (hidden) or else needs
a special technique to make it work, she may get frustrated and angry. But not
so, when all the pieces she sees are always there.

One of her special talents as an autistic is the ability to walk into a room,
any room, and immediately spot each and every tiny difference in the room. If
I've brought something in and hidden it in a cupboard, she will notice the
slight shift in the cupboard door and immediately head over there and open it to
see what happened inside. She spots things where I've intentionally tried to
put everything back exactly. And she does so with uncanny skill.

What I need is something that looks innocuous (she will see it, of course, when
I install it and probably play with it a little) but for which she cannot
readily associate it with the device being activated. I can go over to the
sink, gently squeeze a bulb, and then walk over to the microwave about 30
seconds later and use it and she won't make the connection if I do it right.
But if I use something that is physically near the device and seems in any way
obvious to its operation, then all bets are off and she will dedicate herself to
discovering how to make it work or make my life miserable or both.

She really has no other purpose in life than to discover the world around her in
her own interesting ways. For some of these, I love being around her. She has
a wonderful sense of humor that is uniquely quirky and pays me back a lot for
other times. She's very happy, most of the time, laughing and giggling and
running to and fro about the house. But when faced with something she decides
to pursue, she will dedicate 100% of her thought and time to the project -- for
days and days at a time.

So you learn a kind of "autistic karate" that uses her interests and gets her to
put her time into that and to avoid presenting her with clear barriers that she
will decide she has to crash. One needs to find subtle ways so that she doesn't
make something the focus of her attention.
I have just completed bench testing my second generation and will
update the remote boxes with the following features:

Current sense and threshholding - this allows the microwave to keep
track of time and stay live but immediately shuts down all ac if energized
for cooking without having "authorization" from the control panel

Not terribly important in my case (time on the clock doesn't need to be right.)
But I like the idea, generally.
Local override - turn on without controller by cycling on/off a
predetermined pattern or number of times. Example - override for for
processor by pushing pulse control in (I am using ON in Morse but pick your
own)

Failure indicator led - did someone try to use an appliance without
enabling first

Not a priority for me, but see what you mean.
Programmable timeout - If I enable the microwave and walk away without
using it, it will default back to off condition after 5 minutes (again
software time tweakable).

Yes. This is something I'd like, of course. My own desire is to have this
programmable without having to remove or alter anything, physically. The
circuit remains where it is (hidden, or mounted in a difficult place, etc.) and
should be changeable by an appropriate alteration of the usual enabling
operation (in my case, I might simply hold the switch for two LONG held times
which will enter a programming mode where the SHORT pulses are read as minutes
until a LONG pause happens, when the programming is considered finished.

I don't want to have to unearth the unit to reprogram the time.
Using the PLC devices and simple switching makes the little black boxes
simple and the controller is running BASIC which is real easy to hack and
slash for your configuration. By using NEMA approved plugs of a less that
standard home format, the appliances can only be plug in via the slave
boxes.

Interesting post. Thanks!

Jon
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Wait one stinkin' minute, screeech! :) Assuming no one can figger
out your code/entry method, what's the difference between a bulb
that actuates a switch 10 feet away and a button that activates a
switch 10 mm away with wires running 10 ft away to where the bulb
activaed switch would have been? That's my "few minutes down the
road" thought (see below.)

Read my response to Don. The answer to this quandary is in there.

Jon
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

<snip>

As a follow-up to my other post on biometric sensors. Have you considered
using an old junk PC with Microsoft's fingerprint reader to block access to
logging on the computer except to yourself and your wife? With the PC then
able to unlock the Power switch through the USB or Parallel Port? That could
either be a custom bit of electronics or I've heard of off the shelf
electronics that run off the Parallel Port.

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=035

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=036

I'd rather not tether myself to some computer as the means of turning things on
and off. If the computer is shut down, I have to start it, for one thing. It's
just not very convenient, is another. (This is a place with over 5000 sq ft to
it and it's quite a walk, at times.)

Regarding using finger-print methods, that might work out. But I suspect not,
unless they can take a LOT of abuse and are soap-and-water washable. She will
likely smear chocolate on them, bang on them some (because she's seen me use
them, for example, and has decided they should work for her, too.)

Jon
 
A

Active8

Read my response to Don. The answer to this quandary is in there.
No quandry at all. If it needs to be magic, my idea would do.
There's no bulb visible anywhere - something I'd be sure to rip out.
You bump the shelf into the switch in code or push your foot against
the base of the cabinet under the counter a few times (that's an
easy drop into the basement for the controller.) No one sees
anything.

The picture card idea is the balls, though :)
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

No quandry at all. If it needs to be magic, my idea would do.
There's no bulb visible anywhere - something I'd be sure to rip out.
You bump the shelf into the switch in code or push your foot against
the base of the cabinet under the counter a few times (that's an
easy drop into the basement for the controller.) No one sees
anything.

Well, that's true enough, now that I think more closely about what you were
saying. Thanks for bringing me back to that.

I guess my point here would be that all I really need is something as simple and
cheap and easily threaded around as the aquarium tubing. Actually, I also like
the idea of wiring, as well, mostly because I'm comfortable with it from
experience. But to place the wiring so that I won't worry about it much
afterwards, it will probably be no thinner than the tubing and a lot more
expensive per foot.

Mostly, though, the point here is that I don't really need anything as
operationally complex or feature rich as a keypad. That's wonderful for me,
because I enjoy gadgets. But in this case, I don't need all the signal lines.
Just one is enough:

DEFAULT STATE 0: SHORT pulse --> State 1
0: LONG pulse --> State 4
0: otherwise --> State 0
State 1: SHORT pulse --> State 1
LONG pulse --> Yet to be determined
LONG delay --> TURN ON, START TIMER, CURRENT MON., State 2
Otherwise --> State 1
State 2: Timer expires & current is low --> TURN OFF, State 0
SHORT pulse --> State 3
LONG pulse --> yet to be determined
otherwise --> State 2
State 3: LONG delay --> TURN OFF, State 0
Timer expires & current is low --> TURN OFF, State 0
otherwise --> State 3
State 4: SHORT delay --> State 5
otherwise --> State 4
State 5: accept short pulses to count programmed timer minutes
LONG delay --> remember minutes, State 0

Something along these lines are enough. I can program the "short pulse" time to
be long enough that she won't trip it. I might flip the meanings so that it is
a long pulse that starts the AC and a short, long, short that leads to the
programming of time, for another example.

But I could consider any idea and yours isn't bad. It just may be erring a
little towards 'overkill'.
The picture card idea is the balls, though :)

Yeah, I really like that one. I tried to convince Amana/Maytag to take this on
and actually talked with one of the VPs there. No sell, though. They didn't
want to be bothered.

However, I suspect that the magnetron and waveguide section is bought from
suppliers with standard interfaces so that the control electronics can be
separately designed and fitted. This would allow microwave manufacturers to use
standardized magnetron units and would allow them to 2nd source them, as needed.
Otherwise, the whole thing is designed as an integrated whole and somehow I
think that isn't true. I don't know, though.

But if so, it's quite possible that I could set about to design the front panel
and digital portion, relying upon other products for the RFID interface, and
design it to attach to the magnetron standard interface (if it exists, and I can
find a spec for such a thing.) I could then go through the iterations from
experience to work out the details so that it is convenient and easy to use and
does the job well. Would make for an interesting project and worthwhile one.

Does anyone know about microwave units on this point? Do manufacturers design
things so that there is NO standard interface between the magnetron section and
the digital front panel? Or is there a standard in the industry regarding the
magnetron section?

Jon
 
A

Active8

However, I suspect that the magnetron and waveguide section is bought from
suppliers with standard interfaces so that the control electronics can be
separately designed and fitted. This would allow microwave manufacturers to use
standardized magnetron units and would allow them to 2nd source them, as needed.
Otherwise, the whole thing is designed as an integrated whole and somehow I
think that isn't true. I don't know, though.

But if so, it's quite possible that I could set about to design the front panel
and digital portion, relying upon other products for the RFID interface, and
design it to attach to the magnetron standard interface (if it exists, and I can
find a spec for such a thing.) I could then go through the iterations from
experience to work out the details so that it is convenient and easy to use and
does the job well. Would make for an interesting project and worthwhile one.

Does anyone know about microwave units on this point? Do manufacturers design
things so that there is NO standard interface between the magnetron section and
the digital front panel? Or is there a standard in the industry regarding the
magnetron section?
I'm sure if you google microwave repair, you'll see how doable it
is. When I read up on it umpteen years ago, it discussed all the
lockouts and the magnetron electronics. It's something simple like a
relay and/or MOSFET, HV cap, & HV diode. You'd just be turning the
magnetron on and off.
 
R

Robert

Jonathan Kirwan said:
But I could consider any idea and yours isn't bad. It just may be erring
a
little towards 'overkill'.

If you want to talk about overkill how about the RFID chip that's implanted
into a person's arm? Either her that would turn off the appliances if she
got close or you two to turn them on. Probably you guys since you mentioned
she has the hyper-aware senses and would spot the device after it's placed
in her arm.

http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5111637.html?tag=nefd_top

Robert
 
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