clueless politicians

[Moosh:]]

down hill runs are not valid for scientific analysis. level terrain is
needed for proper comparison. I can get great mileage in my ford van going
downhill in neutral (85mph in va just coasting). but that is meaningless.

Of course, you had to get to the top of the hill, so you must average
both legs of the trip.

 

[Moosh:]]

Actually, you can.

Fuel-cut mode. Or known in the Prius world as warp-stealth. Go down
a nice hill at 65MPH. No need for the engine to be running, so no
fuel sent to the engine. Electric-only. Screen reads 100MPG, because
that's the highest reading that's available for the screen. (l/km is
much more useful, but not available on US Prius models...). On the
highway, going 65+MPH, getting 100+MPG.

You are confusing the readout with actuality -- a common problem

 

[Moosh:]]

Yeah, Moosh, that's the problem with freedom. People do
what they want instead of what you think is right.

Not me, but well qualified experts. But look where this alleged
"freedom" is taking you.

But
enough force can fix that.

Interesting that you regard adjustment of the tax mixture to be force.
Shows where your priorities are.

 

[Moosh:]]

Our country is clean compared to Europe and Asia.

None so blind as those who won't see.

Try acid rain, the great lakes, city smog, polluted groundwater, toxic
dumps, Gulf of Mexico, and these are just a few off the top of the
head of a foreigner.

 

[Moosh:]]

No, it's just the history of the Middle East that I studied a while
back at university. What problems have you with it?

The assumption that Muslims are violent war mongers is only a recent
phenomenon. Centuries ago, "people of the book" lived relatively
peacefully together. The Romans and Mongols and latter European
invaders caused their share of strife, but the Middle East per se, was
not a particularly troubled area until recent Western interference
over oil.

That's quite a load of horse manure there. You might want to get a refund on
your university bill. islam is a fairly new thing compared to the history of
the region. The area has been full of strife for many thousands of years.
look at the Romans and the Greeks. and they are newcomers so to speak.

Not to mention that Mohammed was a military leader responsible for the
deaths of thousands of people!

Huh? He was a glorified camel trader.

The Ottoman Empire was not about people
being nice to each other, ethnic and religious diversity and respecting the
rights of others. Constantinople was militarily besieged and conquered.
From there began the military expansion of the Ottoman Empire and Islamic
control of trade routes between Europe, Africa and Asia. I can't think of
any religion less tolerant of others than Islam, can you?

Well didn't European Christians go long distances to "rout the
Muhammedans?" The spanish inquisition, the pograms against Jews by
Christians.....

Is there any holy
book other than the q'ran that entreats followers to kill infidels
(disbelievers)?

Well it doesn't, but try the Bible.

Moosh might learn a few horrific facts about Islam here:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/
Naaaaaahhh, Moosh is Moosh.

Hey you can find any rubbish you like on anything on the net. You
should know that. I realise Americans need to hate Islam coz they
can't fault their own activities. The way to learn about Islam is to
speak to many friendly, peaceloving followers of Islam, which I have
done.

BTW, that site is famous, but not for telling the truth

What you should do is learn the difference between culture and
religion.

 

[Moosh:]]

That's quite a load of horse manure there. You might want to get a refund on
your university bill. islam is a fairly new thing compared to the history of
the region. The area has been full of strife for many thousands of years.
look at the Romans and the Greeks. and they are newcomers so to speak.

Islam has been going for nearly 1400 years. As we are talking about
present conflict between Islam, Judaism and Christianity, it seems
logical to confine our discussion to the last 1400 years or so.

During that time, there has been relatively little conflict between
these groups, and it is only since the discovery of oil and the
formation of Israel on Arab lands that such intractable hatred and
killing has occurred.

The point is that the interference of the West has caused
unprecedented friction between these three "Peoples of the Book"

 

[Steve Spence]

Funny, I don't see any discussion limited to present conflict between Islam,
Judaism and Christianity, I was discussing conflicts in the middle east.
There has been conflict much longer than Islam or Christianity has been
around. who was discussing religion in this context? that's the big problem
that Islamic folk have, they think it's a religious issue. Americans are not
Christian. some are, but our politics and our religion are unrelated. in
Islam, they are one and the same.

--
Steve Spence
www.green-trust.org

That's quite a load of horse manure there. You might want to get a refund on
your university bill. islam is a fairly new thing compared to the history of
the region. The area has been full of strife for many thousands of years.
look at the Romans and the Greeks. and they are newcomers so to speak.

Islam has been going for nearly 1400 years. As we are talking about
present conflict between Islam, Judaism and Christianity, it seems
logical to confine our discussion to the last 1400 years or so.

During that time, there has been relatively little conflict between
these groups, and it is only since the discovery of oil and the
formation of Israel on Arab lands that such intractable hatred and
killing has occurred.

The point is that the interference of the West has caused
unprecedented friction between these three "Peoples of the Book"

 

[Steve Spence]

"We are trying to figure why the Middle East is such a hot spot today"

you are limiting the discussion. we were talking about how there would be
conflict in this are even without the west. history proves it. you want to
dismiss the historical evidence to skew the numbers. fine, go have a
conversation with yourself.

--
Steve Spence
www.green-trust.org

ammonites,

3300 years ago?

ammorites,

4000 years ago?

Egypt making slaves of Israelites,

About the same time that the Ammonites were wandering about making
mischief, according to the myth.

meades and
Persians, and all that. nothing wrong with my history.

2,400 years ago?

Except that you are thousands of years before Islam, so how can you
discuss peaceful coexistence (more-or-less) between Islam, Judaism and
Chtistianity?

We are trying to figure why the Middle East is such a hot spot today.
My history tells me it is the imposition by the West of the concept of
"nation state" on these tribal peoples in the quest to control their
recently discovered oil. Israel is an importsnt side issue

Your history is great for trees, apparently, but blinds you to the
wood

 

[Blanche Nonken]

What you should do is learn the difference between culture and
religion.

I spend my time hoping people learn the difference between tradition and
history. I'll take what I can get.

 

[Moosh:]]

hey what about the Rhine? and the Thames?

What about them? Is this relevant?

 

[Mike Ackerman]

That's quite a load of horse manure there. You might want to get a refund on
your university bill. islam is a fairly new thing compared to the history of
the region. The area has been full of strife for many thousands of years.
look at the Romans and the Greeks. and they are newcomers so to speak.

Islam has been going for nearly 1400 years. As we are talking about
present conflict between Islam, Judaism and Christianity, it seems
logical to confine our discussion to the last 1400 years or so.

During that time, there has been relatively little conflict between
these groups, and it is only since the discovery of oil and the
formation of Israel on Arab lands that such intractable hatred and
killing has occurred.

The point is that the interference of the West has caused
unprecedented friction between these three "Peoples of the Book"

Don't forget the interference of the East. The Ottomans aided Germany
in WWI.

 

[Philip Edward Lewis]

you are not going to glide down the road at 65 with the windows open, and
get 100 mpg.

Sure they could... the highway just has to be at a 5% downward
grade...

 

[Moosh:]]

List all the environmental damage in your country, and ask where it
originated.
Our country is clean compared to Europe and Asia.

None so blind as those who won't see.

Try acid rain, the great lakes, city smog, polluted groundwater, toxic
dumps, Gulf of Mexico, and these are just a few off the top of the
head of a foreigner.

If you're comparing N.A. to Europe and Asia, and you bring up the Great Lakes,
you're comparing them to what? Lake Baikal?

I'm not comparing them to anything. Where did that idea spring from?
I merely asked who caused all the pollution problems in America. I was
responded to with "There aren't any" or words to that effect.

 

[Bob Adkins]

Try acid rain, the great lakes, city smog, polluted groundwater, toxic
dumps, Gulf of Mexico, and these are just a few off the top of the
head of a foreigner.

Where have you been? The Great Lakes are now cleaner than most European and
Asian drinking water. Polluted ground water is mostly due to naturally
occurring heavy metals, arsenic, etc. Toxic dumps have been illegal here for
many years. Perhaps Mexico is polluting the Gulf of Mexico. I know the Rio
Grande River stinks to high heaven. Acid rain is a much bigger problem in
Europe and Asia than here, but we have work to do.


City smog, well, I have to give you that one. It's caused by our beloved
cars, which replaced our despised horses. Horses used to cause a huge stench
and health hazards in cities.

Are cars illegal in Europe and Asia? I have a feeling that there would be as
many cars where you live if you had the family income and infrastructure
that we have.

Bob

 

[Bob Adkins]

hey what about the Rhine? and the Thames?

Yea, good question. They're just big turd flumes.

Bob

 

[Moosh:]]

Where have you been? The Great Lakes are now cleaner than most European and
Asian drinking water.

Not the point.
At one time, you couldn't eat the fish.
Was this government pollution?

Polluted ground water is mostly due to naturally
occurring heavy metals, arsenic, etc.

And diazinon and all the other pesticides found there?
Did govt do this?

Toxic dumps have been illegal here for
many years.

Still not the point. Where did this polluting waste come from? Your
sewage is not fit to recycle as fertiliser. Who pollutes the sewers
with industrial waste?

Perhaps Mexico is polluting the Gulf of Mexico.

Yeah, they sneak up to the Mississippi and piss in it
But it is still not the point.

I know the Rio
Grande River stinks to high heaven. Acid rain is a much bigger problem in
Europe and Asia than here, but we have work to do.

Of course, we all have work to do, but that was not the point.

City smog, well, I have to give you that one. It's caused by our beloved
cars, which replaced our despised horses. Horses used to cause a huge stench
and health hazards in cities.

But who caused it?

Are cars illegal in Europe and Asia? I have a feeling that there would be as
many cars where you live if you had the family income and infrastructure
that we have.

There are just as many cars here per capita, but I was making the
point that they are not a product of government.

I was responding to:

Public good comes from government staying the hell out of the way. All good
in a society originates from profits.

I asked:

"List all the environmental damage in your country, and ask where it
originated."

 

[Fred B. McGalliard]

fkasner <[email protected]> wrote in message

Are you sure of this, Fred? Care to place a $100.00 bet that I CAN
produce sodium from the electrolysis of a salt water solution?

I will take that bet. Water implies sodium will burn, releasing hydrogen. I
have done the electrolysis in a molten salt mix with the water of hydration
still present (at least I assume that this was the source of the oxygen the
sodium was burning with). Anyway, if water is present, the sodium will burn
with it. That is very hard to prevent by any mechanism I know of.

 

[Bob Adkins]

That's as may be, but so what?

Well, I get a "so what" too then.

Bob

 

[Don W.]

Where have you been? The Great Lakes are now cleaner than most European and
Asian drinking water.

Not the point.
At one time, you couldn't eat the fish.
Was this government pollution?

If that's not the point, then WHAT IS THE POINT? The Great Lakes were
cleaned up by the same people who polluted them. What exactly is
"government pollution"?

And diazinon and all the other pesticides found there?
Did govt do this?

I don't know of any U.S. groundwater where diazinon is a problem. Here in
California, the biggest groundwater problem is MTBE which was mandated by
the government as a gasoline additive.

Still not the point. Where did this polluting waste come from? Your
sewage is not fit to recycle as fertiliser. Who pollutes the sewers
with industrial waste?

Where did you get the idea that our sewers are polluted with industrial
waste? Get real Moosh. You don't know what you're talking about. Try as
you might, the failed system of socialism just can't be made to look good.

Yeah, they sneak up to the Mississippi and piss in it
But it is still not the point.

Why don't you tell us what is the point, Moosh?

Of course, we all have work to do, but that was not the point.

....and your point is?

But who caused it?

Horses?



There are just as many cars here per capita, but I was making the
point that they are not a product of government.

Thank God for that! I suppose if you had your 'druthers, all our cars WOULD
be government issued.

I was responding to:

People like the freedom of having a car to go where they please. This IS a
good thing!

I asked:

"List all the environmental damage in your country, and ask where it
originated."

Oh, you would like us to believe that only bad things come from big,
successful corporations. People don't buy the products and services of
successful corporations just to spend money. They buy the products and
services because they WANT them. Maybe it's not what Moosh wants for them,
but it IS what they want for themselves. A government of, by and for Moosh
is NOT what the people want.

Don W.

 

[Don Lancaster]

As I recall, mercury is the primary remaining issue. There are
also municipalities that pump their sewage into the lakes, which has
caused some public beach closings in recent years due to fecal coliform
issues.

If I remember correctly, Ford Motor had to recall all their Mercurys
because the fish content was too high.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: [email protected] fax 847-574-1462

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com