Circular saw won't ground, safe?

[LRod]

(I'm posting from Europe, your local terms may be different).

[good stuff snipped]

US wiring is a shocking abomination by design and so it's only the huge
number of GFCIs and arcing-fault breakers (a totally alien concept in
the UK) that stop your evil aluminum wiring killing the population of
Detroit weekly.

Andy, Andy, Andy. You were doing good until here.

GFCIs are primarily protection when you're near water (kitchen,
bathroom, spa, pool, basement). They're not used on every circuit.

Arcing fault breakers are a relatively recent development, and I
suspect, the result of arc fault breaker industry lobbying rather than
a solution to an actual widespread problem. I'd be interested in
knowing how many deaths AFIs could have saved in the century of the
Edison system that we didn't have them.

Aluminum wiring (in house) was used for a relatively short time, in
only a very few houses (comparitvely), quite a number of years ago (on
the order of 30 or more). Although there are probably some houses that
still have it, it's not mowing down the populace left and right. The
vast, VAST majority of US homes are wired in copper.

Aluminum feeders and transmission lines are an altogether different
story and aren't killing anyone because they're aluminum, so far as I
know.

[more good stuff snipped]

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

 

[toller]

Hey, my 9 year old said the same thing to a friend the other day!

I guess he also taught you how to have an intelligent discussion?

So, you concede you can't come up with a single fact. Then stop posting.

I conceded nothing. If you think you can get people to respect you
around here by putting words in my mouth, guess again.

I said I wasn't discussing anything with you, and I really must move on
to things that need my attention. Please stop replying to my posts,
because every time you do, I read them, thinking that you may have seen
the errors of your ways and apologized like a man for offering wrong
advice on electrical matters here and in previous threads.

Best not be holding my breath, eh?

Go play with your 9 year old. You can still impress humans at that age.[/QUOTE]

You have plenty of time to babble; just no time for facts. Hmm.

 

[Rich Grise]

You would be risking a fatal electrical shock, should the saw
develop an internal insulation fault (as it very well could if it's that
old).

Replace the cord completely. If you lack the requisite skill
and/or tools to do so properly, you should take the unit to a professional
repair shop. Any place that repairs power tools should be able to handle
it.

I'm with Dr. Anton on this one.

Replace the cord.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

A couple years ago I moved an outlet by putting a hand on each side,
contacting the hot with one and the neutral with the other. (I thought
"the other guy" had opened the breaker) I was rather surprised to be alive
and unhurt afterwards. I did some research and found out it is almost
impossible to get a lethal shock from 120v under normal circumstances.
Virtually all the electrocutions on record have been from 4000v or higher.

Accordingly, I am wondering about those fatal accidents you have studied.
If my understanding is incorrect, I certainly want to get it adjusted.
(no, I do not treat 120v casually; "almost impossible" means it is
possible...)

When I was in tech school, one of the teachers said, "Suppose you're
working inside a transmitter chassis, and you bump up against the 12V
filament supply, get a tingle and flinch, knocking your hand into the
4KV plate supply.

"Which one killed you?"

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

And who says the breaker box was labeled correctly or labeled at all.

That's what voltmeters are for. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Your heart operates on considerably less potential. You're betting that
the jolt won't find the proper pathway to interfere or stop it? Foolish
wager.

Two in my experience on 120 Volts, but that's 50% of electrocution
fatalities I've had.

When I was an electronics tech in the US Air Force, one of the stories
that circulated was some guy who killed himself with a PSM-6 VOM. They
come with sets of different probes, one of which is needle-sharp. It
seems he wanted to measure his body resistance, so he took a probe in
each hand and punctured his thumbs. Oh, yeah - on the higher-resistance
ranges, that meter uses a 9- or 12-volt battery. Poking through his
skin to the wet parts let more than 15 mA go through his heart. I
don't know how to find out if this was true or just a scare story.
We also were required to take off all rings and watches, and it
was strongly recommended to put one hand in your pocket.

There was also the UL about the guy who ohmed out the igniter on
an AIM-7 or AIM-9 missile, and the fins cut off both of his hands.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

IT ISN'T THE VOLTAGE! When I was in USN, they had studies showing deaths
from relatively low voltages. It's the amps, or more precisely the
milliamps, and where they travel. A certain milliamp current can be lethal
if it passes through the heart/chest area because it will cause the heart
to go into fibrillation, while a relatively high current may just cause
the heart to stop, but once it is removed the heart will restart on it's
own. I don't remember the exact numbers, but seems like it was around the
90-100 milliamp range that was lethal due to causing fibrillation.

It's a common myth that a defribrillator (like you see on TeeVee, when
they go "CLEAR!" and zap the guy) "jump-starts" the patient's heart. It
actually does the opposite. The heart is in fibrillation, and the jolt
from the defibrillator causes the heart to cramp up momentarily, stopping
the fibrillation. That is, it actually kills the guy. But an otherwise
relatively normal heart will restart itself spontaneously, as you've noted.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Apostrophe Police]

information once in awhile instead of alway's arguing a point.

There is no apostrophe in the word "always".

 

[David Harmon]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 17:08:51 GMT in sci.electronics.basics, "Leon"

After a delivery truck hit a power pole and knocked down some power lines I
questioned the gentleman managing and keeping an eye on the crew repairing
the power lines. He indicated that 220 is more likely to get you as it
tends to hold on to you. The much higher voltage lines will more likely
throw you away.

The dorm cafeteria where I went to college had toasters that ran on
220V. I really used to cringe when I saw people stick forks into them
to retrieve stuck pieces of toast. I guess that is routine in the UK
though.

 

[Andy Dingley]

The dorm cafeteria where I went to college had toasters that ran on
220V. I really used to cringe when I saw people stick forks into them
to retrieve stuck pieces of toast. I guess that is routine in the UK
though.

It's hardly _routine_ to stick forks into live toasters. Few people do
it more than once.

(Actually it's pretty safe. Only a real moron does it when they're hot
and when the power is off, the elements are isolated. Toaster makers
_know_ that there will be fools poking Darwin's Fork where they
shouldn't, and they do try to take account of this)

 

[Duane Bozarth]

Rich Grise wrote:
....

When I was an electronics tech in the US Air Force, ...
We also were required to take off all rings and watches, and it
was strongly recommended to put one hand in your pocket.

There was also the UL about the guy who ohmed out the igniter on
an AIM-7 or AIM-9 missile, and the fins cut off both of his hands.

Did he then keep one of them in his pocket?

 

[Leon]

When I was in tech school, one of the teachers said, "Suppose you're
working inside a transmitter chassis, and you bump up against the 12V
filament supply, get a tingle and flinch, knocking your hand into the
4KV plate supply.

"Which one killed you?"

If you could answer the question, neither killed you. ;~)

If you have a brain transplant, do you end up with a different brain or a
different body?

 

[Bob Haar]

You are correct; 100ma is about the lethal threashold. But it is difficult
to get 100ma off 120v unless you are in saltwater.
Naturally adverse medical conditions, or just plain bad luck, will change
everything!

The situation that you described is worse than standing in salt water. If
you really had one hand on the Hot and the other on the Neutral, then the
current went right through your chest.

 

[Doug Miller]

Rich Grise wrote:
....

Did he then keep one of them in his pocket?

DUH! *Both* of them!

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

 

[Duane Bozarth]

DUH! *Both* of them!

But that would have been against the reg's...

 

[Robatoy]

Good advice Doug. I do triple checks and am used the the rolled eyes
from "knowledgeable" people. F** em. It's less stress to do what you
suggest, and it's better advice to give.

Hear hear!

 

[Robatoy]

In fact, I do more than that: I plug my tester into something that I'm sure
*is* live, to make sure it lights up when it's supposed to, before using on
something that I believe to be not live.

That's exactly the same thing I do. I don't even trust voltmeters or
testers. I want to see them work first.
THAT is how electricity is handled.

 

[Rich Grise]

If you could answer the question, neither killed you. ;~)

If you have a brain transplant, do you end up with a different brain or a
different body?

I guess that depends on which you believe is "you". ;-)

Here's an interesting experiment. Close your eyes, and say "Me", while
simultaneously pointing at yourself. Hold that position, and open your
eyes.

Where is your finger pointing?

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

That's exactly the same thing I do. I don't even trust voltmeters or
testers. I want to see them work first. THAT is how electricity is
handled.

I read something in one of those "home handyman" articles about when
you're working on the wiring in, say, a bedroom, but the breaker
panel is in the basement, and not labeled well. You get a line-
operated radio, and plug it in in the room you want to deenergize,
and turn it up loud enough so you can hear it from the basement.
Switch off the breakers one at a time, and when you've got the
right one, the radio will quit. If any given breaker doesn't turn
off the radio, you can turn it back on so you can still see your
way up the stairs, of course.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Doug Miller]

I read something in one of those "home handyman" articles about when
you're working on the wiring in, say, a bedroom, but the breaker
panel is in the basement, and not labeled well. You get a line-
operated radio, and plug it in in the room you want to deenergize,
and turn it up loud enough so you can hear it from the basement.
Switch off the breakers one at a time, and when you've got the
right one, the radio will quit. If any given breaker doesn't turn
off the radio, you can turn it back on so you can still see your
way up the stairs, of course.

Yes, that works -- but one of these is a *lot* easier:
http://www.lowes.
com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=12334-1781-GET-1200

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?