Chevy Volt, only $41,000

[Josepi]

Is this just a troll? Vaughn explained why it doesn't work well and will not
likely ever work well.

Would the little urban battery-vehicles rely on slow corded
re-charging ? I think most likely an automated battery exchange
station on every-other street corner ..
The big oil companies - who would also be the big re-charge companies
- would re-charge overnight using the cheap off-peak power -
and trade-off the batteries during the day - when needed most.
This, of course, is looking ahead to the time when compressed air
vehicles become viable.
John T.

One potential advantage of an air-powered vehicle might be quick recharging
compared to a battery vehicle.
Vaughn

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

 

[Josepi]

People that use decent newsreaders can read either format. Welcome to the
90s

Try to stay on topic instead of distraction to avoid embarrassment.


TOP POSTER!!!

Hey, I remember a story about an air-powered vehicle,
but It doesn't seem to have shown up in the Auto-X prize
finals.
Anybody have any ideas about how it's doing nowadays?

 

[vaughn]

Would the little urban battery-vehicles rely on slow corded
re-charging ?

For the foreseeable future, certainly.

Vaughn

 

[News]

Would the little urban battery-vehicles rely on slow corded
re-charging ? I think most likely an automated battery exchange
station on every-other street corner ..
The big oil companies - who would also be the big re-charge companies
- would re-charge overnight using the cheap off-peak power -
and trade-off the batteries during the day - when needed most.
This, of course, is looking ahead to the time when compressed air
vehicles become viable.
John T.

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.

* Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium Chemistry Based on
Nano-Technologyrevents Thermal Runaway Even Under Extreme Physical Duress
* Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full Recharge in < 10 Minutes, 90% in < 5
Minutes
* Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Rapid
Charge-discharge Cycles
* Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85% Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
* High Output Performance - Equivalent Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
* Superb Low-Temperature Performance - Excels at Temperatures as Low
as -30°C
* Proven Production - Produced on a State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

The secret is brake regen and supercapacitors/efficient batteries.
Compressed air would been feasible, but R&D in supercapacitors in batteries
may have pushed air into the background for now.

 

[News]

A simple search of the Tata sites shows everything they have to say about
their miraculous air powered car.

Not a word.

Pretty impressive.

Do a search on Tata on this group.

 

[News]

People have created a market for the hybrid and it is much more feasible.

People never created the market. The authorities did by emissions regs.

Your statements are based on lack of market knowledge and attempts at
confusing a simple argument.

Your statement are based on ignorance. Large corps do not want
change -unless sit is forced on them.

 

[News]

Is this just a troll? Vaughn explained why it doesn't work well and will
not
likely ever work well.

Have you told Tata this? Please write to them, they obviously don't know
what they doing and don't understand compressed air.

 

[News]

TOP POSTER. Please ignore him.

 

[News]

For the foreseeable future, certainly.

You haven't a clue.

 

[Josepi]

You're not in Kansas anymore, either.


Have you told Tata this? Please write to them, they obviously don't know
what they doing and don't understand compressed air.

 

[Josepi]

OK

<PLONK>


TOP POSTER. Please ignore him.

 

[News]

OK

<PLONK>

Thank you. What a loon!

 

[Bob F]

Do a search on Tata on this group.

I searched their corporate site. Apparently they have no plans for "air cars"
that they care to make public. It doesn't appear they are going anywhere anytime
soon with it. They probably decided that they don't want to look like fools
anymore.

 

[vaughn]

Others say it could work. In a technical fashion.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/721r7419j51104m7/

Few claim that it won't work. I believe that even I could build an air-powered
car that we could drive around the block.

The problem is getting one sufficiently efficient, and sufficiently economical
to compete with other technologies while still retaining useful range. I have
just enough engineering background to have a grasp of the difficulties, and they
are massive. The lack of apparent progress in air power over the last ten years
or so, combined with the significant strides made by battery technology makes me
think that air power is unlikely to be a big player in the foreseeable future.

Vaughn

 

[Josepi]

Others do not say it will work and your link is no exception.
If have trouble reading a top posted argument it would be unlikely you
could read the document you posted.

The document only addreses energy density of compressed air, continually
redirects the topic to nitrogen compression and does **NOT** address any of
the negatives vaughn stated, namely economy or ecologically sound exergy.

Very poor example and argument.



Others say it could work. In a technical fashion.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/721r7419j51104m7/
But ignore it, because it's a top posting.

 

[News]

Few claim that it won't work. I believe that even I could build an
air-powered car that we could drive around the block.

The problem is getting one sufficiently efficient, and sufficiently
economical to compete with other technologies while still retaining useful
range. I have just enough engineering background to have a grasp of the
difficulties, and they > are massive.

MDI uses a petro/air hybrid all in one engine unit. You could clearly not
understand it. Charging the tanks via the grid also meant cleaner and
cheaper running in towns. They were also looking at brake regen using air.

They were on the right track.

The lack of apparent progress in air power over the last ten years or so,
combined with the significant strides made by battery technology makes >
me think that air power is unlikely to be a big player in the foreseeable
future.

If batteries had not progressed so much you would have seen air propelled
cars or the petro/air hybrid type.

Many are waiting to see what way it all pans out. An example is the British
Department for Transport. They advised the last government not to get
involved in expensive cross-country overhead wire electrification projects
as fuel cell technology appeared to be advancing fast and may lend itself
viable for trains. In short, wait a few years and see, as the diesel locos
may be replaced with a superior promising technology not needing hundreds of
miles of ugly overhead lines through pretty British countryside.

About 18 months ago they dropped this view, after pressure from rail groups,
and full overhead wire electrification projects were announced replacing
diesel trains. Electric trains do not need fuel storage and the facilities
to refuel the trains. They are lighter as they do not carry heavy engines
and fuel and safer in tunnels. They are simpler and last longer. They are
1/3 cheaper to run and cheaper to build.

But they need maintenance teams to see to the countless miles of over wires
and support stanchions. Electrifying hundreds of miles of track is not
cheap at all, although the train maintenance side is a lot cheaper. There
has been suggestions to eliminate parts of the wires in downward sections.
Or have the wires only in sections just longer than the train with a wire
pickup at each end of the train. I am not sure if these will be taken up.

If the fuel cell does advance in the next few years, the electrification
will be cancelled on many lines.

 

[News]

Others say it could work. In a technical fashion.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/721r7419j51104m7/
<<<<<

That says air is viable. It is also free.

 

[News]

The review noted that it would be an
inferior option. But I wanted to get a technical commentary into
it. Although you had given a pretty salient presentation.
<<<<<

It is "viable" they say. It all depends on the application. In city
stop-start driving using air as brake regen and slow troad speeds I'm sure
there is a case for compressed air: taxis, utility vehicles, runabouts, etc.
They should last and last as there are no expensive limited life electric
batteries. They should be cheap to make.

The industry (the corps) has locked itself into electric or hybrids. That is
where their R&D money is going.

 

[News]

TOP POSTER - IGNORE.

 

[News]

TOP POSTER


Not trying to go for or against it, just noting other info.
There is a prospect of it coming into the marketplace,
but as an inferior presentation.
<<<<

You mean a niche presentation.