Broadview Still Paying Off the BBB

[Jim Rojas]

Customer Complaint History

BBB serving Dallas, Texas maintains a report on this company's
headquarters location. Please visit dallas.bbb.org for details or call
(214) 220-2000.

When considering complaint information, please take into account the
company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the
nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more
important than the number of complaints.

BBB processed a total of 465 complaints about this company in the last
36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 465 complaints
closed in 36 months, 208 were closed in the last year.
These complaints concerned :
5 regarding Issue Not Defined

5 regarding Advertising Issues

1 - Advertisement misrepresented a product
1 - Advertisement misrepresented a service
3 - None of the Above - Advertising Complaint Issue
113 regarding Billing or Collection Issues

16 - Failure to correct billing errors
3 - Failure to substantiate charges
7 - Improper collection practices
86 - None of the Above - Credit, Billing or Collection Complaint Issue
1 - Unauthorized credit card charges
109 regarding Contract Issues

14 - Failure to honor a contract or agreement
7 - Invalid or false contract
75 - None of the Above - Contract Complaint Issue
12 - Unauthorized changes to the contract or agreement
1 - Work performed outside the terms of the contract or agreement
110 regarding Customer Service Issues

11 - Failure to provide promised assistance or support for products or
services
4 - Failure to respond to phone calls or written requests for assistance
or support
1 - Inappropriate behavior by customer service personnel
94 - None of the Above - Customer Service Complaint Issue
2 regarding Delivery Issues

2 - None of the Above - Delivery Complaint Issue
5 regarding Guarantee or Warranty Issues

1 - Failure to honor service under the terms of warranties
2 - Failure to provide promised written warranty or guarantee
2 - None of the Above - Guarantee or Warranty Complaint Issue
8 regarding Product Issues

1 - Defective, damaged, or incorrect product received
7 - None of the Above - Product Quality Complaint Issue
22 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues

2 - Failure to honor promised refunds, exchanges, or credit
5 - Failure to honor refund, exchange or credit policies
15 - None of the Above - Refund or Exchange Complaint Issue
6 regarding Repair Issues

1 - Delayed completion of repair
1 - Failure to honor a repair estimate or agreement
1 - Improper or inferior repair
3 - None of the Above - Repair Complaint Issue
30 regarding Sales Practice Issues

18 - None of the Above - Sales Complaint Issue
1 - Sales presentation did not disclose complete pricing information
5 - Sales presentation did not disclose key conditions of the offer
1 - Sales presentation not consistent with the written agreement
4 - Sales presentation used dishonest sales practices
1 - Sales presentation used high pressure methods
50 regarding Service Issues

2 - Delayed completion of service
4 - Failure to honor service estimate or agreement
1 - Failure to provide invoice or estimate for service upon request
10 - Improper or inferior service
32 - None of the Above - Service Complaint Issue
1 - Unauthorized service

These complaints were closed as:
331 Resolved

224 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to
acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
107 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged
acceptance to BBB.
134 Administratively Closed


134 Administratively Closed? Does this mean that Broadview wrote a check
to the BBB? What gives? I just don't get it. I have 1 failed to respond
complaint in 13 years and I get an F rating? Really...I guess I need
borrow some from Broadview. I refuse to write a check to clear this up.
It kind of defeats the purpose of the BBB.

Jim Rojas

 

[Doug]

Customer Complaint History

BBB serving Dallas, Texas maintains a report on this company's
headquarters location. Please visit dallas.bbb.org for details or call
(214) 220-2000.

When considering complaint information, please take into account the
company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature
of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than
the number of complaints.

BBB processed a total of 465 complaints about this company in the last 36
months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 465 complaints
closed in 36 months, 208 were closed in the last year.
These complaints concerned :
5 regarding Issue Not Defined

5 regarding Advertising Issues

1 - Advertisement misrepresented a product
1 - Advertisement misrepresented a service
3 - None of the Above - Advertising Complaint Issue
113 regarding Billing or Collection Issues

16 - Failure to correct billing errors
3 - Failure to substantiate charges
7 - Improper collection practices
86 - None of the Above - Credit, Billing or Collection Complaint Issue
1 - Unauthorized credit card charges
109 regarding Contract Issues

14 - Failure to honor a contract or agreement
7 - Invalid or false contract
75 - None of the Above - Contract Complaint Issue
12 - Unauthorized changes to the contract or agreement
1 - Work performed outside the terms of the contract or agreement
110 regarding Customer Service Issues

11 - Failure to provide promised assistance or support for products or
services
4 - Failure to respond to phone calls or written requests for assistance
or support
1 - Inappropriate behavior by customer service personnel
94 - None of the Above - Customer Service Complaint Issue
2 regarding Delivery Issues

2 - None of the Above - Delivery Complaint Issue
5 regarding Guarantee or Warranty Issues

1 - Failure to honor service under the terms of warranties
2 - Failure to provide promised written warranty or guarantee
2 - None of the Above - Guarantee or Warranty Complaint Issue
8 regarding Product Issues

1 - Defective, damaged, or incorrect product received
7 - None of the Above - Product Quality Complaint Issue
22 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues

2 - Failure to honor promised refunds, exchanges, or credit
5 - Failure to honor refund, exchange or credit policies
15 - None of the Above - Refund or Exchange Complaint Issue
6 regarding Repair Issues

1 - Delayed completion of repair
1 - Failure to honor a repair estimate or agreement
1 - Improper or inferior repair
3 - None of the Above - Repair Complaint Issue
30 regarding Sales Practice Issues

18 - None of the Above - Sales Complaint Issue
1 - Sales presentation did not disclose complete pricing information
5 - Sales presentation did not disclose key conditions of the offer
1 - Sales presentation not consistent with the written agreement
4 - Sales presentation used dishonest sales practices
1 - Sales presentation used high pressure methods
50 regarding Service Issues

2 - Delayed completion of service
4 - Failure to honor service estimate or agreement
1 - Failure to provide invoice or estimate for service upon request
10 - Improper or inferior service
32 - None of the Above - Service Complaint Issue
1 - Unauthorized service

These complaints were closed as:
331 Resolved

224 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to
acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
107 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged
acceptance to BBB.
134 Administratively Closed


134 Administratively Closed? Does this mean that Broadview wrote a check
to the BBB? What gives? I just don't get it. I have 1 failed to respond
complaint in 13 years and I get an F rating? Really...I guess I need
borrow some from Broadview. I refuse to write a check to clear this up. It
kind of defeats the purpose of the BBB.

Jim Rojas

Not really, the purpose of the BBB is the same as any other company- to make
money

Doug

 

[Jim Rojas]

Not really, the purpose of the BBB is the same as any other company- to make
money

Doug

Here's what I think it boils down to: If a business pays their annual
dues to the BBB (racketeering fee), they will have a A+ Rating. Period.
A customer can sue Broadview in a court of law and win. But the BBB
would continue to give them an A+ Rating.

In fact, any company could be sued unlimited times, and lose each time.
But unless the "arbitration" went through the BBB, using their
arbitrators, it would not affect their BBB rating.

Bernie Madoff's company was a member with the Better Business Bureau,
and look what happened there. I am sure many of these companies that
have huge scams going on are paid members with the BBB.

Jim Rojas

 

[Bob La Londe]

Here's what I think it boils down to: If a business pays their annual dues
to the BBB (racketeering fee), they will have a A+ Rating. Period. A
customer can sue Broadview in a court of law and win. But the BBB would
continue to give them an A+ Rating.

In fact, any company could be sued unlimited times, and lose each time.
But unless the "arbitration" went through the BBB, using their
arbitrators, it would not affect their BBB rating.

Bernie Madoff's company was a member with the Better Business Bureau, and
look what happened there. I am sure many of these companies that have huge
scams going on are paid members with the BBB.

Jim Rojas

I had one complaint years ago from a client who wanted me to do repairs for
free with a grossly past due balance on their account. I refused. I
responded to the BBB complaint and was told it was listed as resolved. Out
of curiosity I just checked my rating with them. Holy cow. What a clueless
lot. They still list an ancient business address from before I bought my
current property and put up my shop. What got me though was...


Customer Complaint History
Back to Top
BBB has processed no customer complaints on this company in its three year
reporting period.


Rating. B-

Probably because whenever they call me to try and weedle money out of my I
tell them there is no way I would donate to such a weazely sleezy outfit as
the BBB who rates criminal organizations with an A because they pay.

 

[Frank Olson]

Customer Complaint History

BBB serving Dallas, Texas maintains a report on this company's
headquarters location. Please visit dallas.bbb.org for details or call
(214) 220-2000.

When considering complaint information, please take into account the
company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the
nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more
important than the number of complaints.

BBB processed a total of 465 complaints about this company in the last
36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 465 complaints
closed in 36 months, 208 were closed in the last year.
These complaints concerned :
5 regarding Issue Not Defined

5 regarding Advertising Issues

1 - Advertisement misrepresented a product
1 - Advertisement misrepresented a service
3 - None of the Above - Advertising Complaint Issue
113 regarding Billing or Collection Issues

16 - Failure to correct billing errors
3 - Failure to substantiate charges
7 - Improper collection practices
86 - None of the Above - Credit, Billing or Collection Complaint Issue
1 - Unauthorized credit card charges
109 regarding Contract Issues

14 - Failure to honor a contract or agreement
7 - Invalid or false contract
75 - None of the Above - Contract Complaint Issue
12 - Unauthorized changes to the contract or agreement
1 - Work performed outside the terms of the contract or agreement
110 regarding Customer Service Issues

11 - Failure to provide promised assistance or support for products or
services
4 - Failure to respond to phone calls or written requests for assistance
or support
1 - Inappropriate behavior by customer service personnel
94 - None of the Above - Customer Service Complaint Issue
2 regarding Delivery Issues

2 - None of the Above - Delivery Complaint Issue
5 regarding Guarantee or Warranty Issues

1 - Failure to honor service under the terms of warranties
2 - Failure to provide promised written warranty or guarantee
2 - None of the Above - Guarantee or Warranty Complaint Issue
8 regarding Product Issues

1 - Defective, damaged, or incorrect product received
7 - None of the Above - Product Quality Complaint Issue
22 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues

2 - Failure to honor promised refunds, exchanges, or credit
5 - Failure to honor refund, exchange or credit policies
15 - None of the Above - Refund or Exchange Complaint Issue
6 regarding Repair Issues

1 - Delayed completion of repair
1 - Failure to honor a repair estimate or agreement
1 - Improper or inferior repair
3 - None of the Above - Repair Complaint Issue
30 regarding Sales Practice Issues

18 - None of the Above - Sales Complaint Issue
1 - Sales presentation did not disclose complete pricing information
5 - Sales presentation did not disclose key conditions of the offer
1 - Sales presentation not consistent with the written agreement
4 - Sales presentation used dishonest sales practices
1 - Sales presentation used high pressure methods
50 regarding Service Issues

2 - Delayed completion of service
4 - Failure to honor service estimate or agreement
1 - Failure to provide invoice or estimate for service upon request
10 - Improper or inferior service
32 - None of the Above - Service Complaint Issue
1 - Unauthorized service

These complaints were closed as:
331 Resolved

224 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to
acknowledge acceptance to BBB.
107 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged
acceptance to BBB.
134 Administratively Closed


134 Administratively Closed? Does this mean that Broadview wrote a check
to the BBB? What gives? I just don't get it. I have 1 failed to respond
complaint in 13 years and I get an F rating? Really...I guess I need
borrow some from Broadview. I refuse to write a check to clear this up.
It kind of defeats the purpose of the BBB.

Jim Rojas

You should have a Triple "F" rating: "F"abulously "F"reekin' "F"antastic.

What's really interesting is that you only qualify for an "A+" if you're
a member. Non-member's highest rating is an "A".

 

[Jim Rojas]

Why does this not the least bit surprised me?

Read below.

Jim Rojas

<< snipped from: http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/bbb.php >>

The Better Business Bureau:
It's not what you think!

Living a dream, I recently filed a "Fictitious Business Name" with
Riverside County in California. This is public information, much like
getting a mortgage and transfer of property title. In one sense, this
simply means that you get a lot of telemarketing calls. This is all fine
and dandy – in fact, the fact that there is a wealth of public
information out there is somewhat comforting.

Enter The Better Business Bureau. Until last week, I thought that the
BBB was a government-run organization, funded by my tax dollars. I
thought that it was a neutral observer of business standards and
practices, a place where one could get information on a legitimate
business or where one could lodge a formal complaint against a shady
one. Just about none of this is true.

The BBB is not run by the government, but they do a lot of business with
the FTC — at least that's what I hear. They are a non-profit, charity
organization known as a 501(c)(3). This means that whatever money you
donate to their cause is tax-deductible. The money that you donate is
supposed to go into programs and charitable causes. The organization is
supposed to report their income, report their board of directors, report
about their programs, and so on. This information appears on IRS form 990.

990s are public information. So, with my wife's help, I got hold of the
990 for our local BBB. Turns out, they report no income, no board of
directors, no contractors who earn over $50,000 per year, and they have
no programs. All they appear to have is -$849 in assets. This is, to say
the least, shady.

You might ask, "Why is he so interested in the BBB?"

They cold called me. Mind you, this was back when (last week) I thought
that they were a legitimate organization. It went something like this:

The "Guy" called and said that he was from the Better Business Bureau.
My ears perked up: I thought either I have already done something wrong
(!), or that they are a really conscientious organization interested in
how I conduct my affairs. He said that he wanted to set up an
appointment to visit my business. When I balked, he said that he could
just ask me some questions over the phone. So I assented.

He asked questions that were already answered on the county DBA filing,
so I answered diligently, thinking that he was probably checking up on
me to verify if I had been honest on the DBA application. He finished
his simple questions (e.g., do you have employees? How long have you
been in business? What is the nature of the business?), and told me:

It costs $465 a year and that will carry you through June 2006. We take
credit cards or check by phone.

I was floored. The "Guy" cold-called me and thought that I'd start
doling out credit card numbers? Insane. I asked him, "Excuse me, you
can't bill?" He answered, "We do credit cards or check by phone." Wary
of phishing schemes, I told him that I had no way to know that he was
who he claimed to be and that he would have to give me his information
and I would call back if I was interested.

He gave me the information, and there started the investigation.

There are a lot of problems, right from the start — even before you
start reading the complaints against the BBB.

Most importantly, there is the obvious conflict-of-interest problem.
They take "subscription" or "membership" donations from businesses. This
means that businesses are the BBB's source of income (even though they
don't report income). But businesses are their object of complaint. So,
if I as a consumer complain to the BBB, I'm complaining about one of
their sources of income. Obviously, this is a problem.

The problems run deeper. An hour or so after they talked to me, my
business appeared on their web site (if you're interested, find the
Southern California BBB site and look for "Bluewood Designs"; I resist
linking to them). The information on the site is the information that I
told them over the phone.

They never confirmed that information. Furthermore, they assigned me a
"BB" rating. This means, paraphrased, that they have no reason to
believe that anyone would have trouble doing business with me. This is
true, to some extent — they have no reason to think much of anything
about me because, well, they know virtually nothing about me.

What's curious is that many other local businesses, who are members of
the BBB, have "A" or higher ratings. Hmmm. I wonder what my rating would
be if I paid for a "membership".

More curious, and again I encourage anyone to look this stuff up, I
checked out the local Wal-Mart: they are a "member" of the BBB. They
have had one complaint against them, but it apparently was resolved. So,
they have an "AA" rating. I checked out the local Lowe's. They have 14
unresolved complaints against them and have an "F" rating. They are not
members of the BBB.

What makes this case curious, in my estimation, is the number of lodged
complaints. These stores are no more than a couple of miles from each
other and so have basically the same customer base. I find it impossible
to believe that the BBB has only received one complaint against Wal-Mart
and 14 against Lowe's. This makes me suspect that a) the BBB is not
recording complaints against their members; b) the BBB is not recording
responses from non-members; c) the BBB might be "creating" complaints
against non-members. Or some combination of these or others.

That last point is one that I've now read about (check out
badbusinessbureau.com for more). Somehow this doesn't seem unreasonable
— I consider how much due diligence the BBB did to get my business
information. I imagine that they do similar diligence on complaints that
they receive.

Speaking of how complaints go, a friend of mine, let's call him "Scott",
lodged a complaint with the BBB against a local car dealership. The
dealership had tried to make him replace a $500 part on his car when it
was really just a fuse that had blown. That complaint, on the BBB web
site, is listed as resolved. This is probably because "Scott" grew tired
of the paperwork and didn't pursue the complaint further. The BBB let it
end. The car dealership is a member of the BBB. They have a "B" rating
and 14 complaints.

But Scott felt that he had lodged a complaint with a reputable
organization and that something might be done about their business
practices. This is not the case, for the BBB has no authority over
businesses and no significant legal influence with state or county
authorities. Yet arguably, they market themselves as having that kind of
authority.

This succeeds to dupe consumers into thinking that their complaints will
actually be heard by someone who can or will do something about it. In
the case of my friend, this stopped him from taking the complaint to an
authority, such as the state Attorney General.

There are numerous other resources and anecdotes about the BBB out there
on the web. This article aims only to raise a healthy suspicion about
the organization and to encourage business owners and consumers to
proceed with caution when doing business with the Better Business Bureau.

One final irony: if you have a complaint against the Better Business
Bureau, you can't file it with the Better Business Bureau. And just as
Groucho Marx once quipped that he would never join a club that would
have him as a member, the Better Business Bureau is not a member of its
own organization.

Maybe it's all a big joke?

© 2005 Sorrell