Break-even point for home electric generator powered by natural gas?What about NG-powered AC compres

[Some Guy]

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7
kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a
turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25
amp) supply.

If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the
cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot)
does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to
generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your
natural gas supply using one of these units?

What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a
smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer
(when NG demand is low) ?

 

[.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7

You fucking asshole.

GO THE **** AWAY !!!!!!


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[Amun]

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7
kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a
turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25
amp) supply.

If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the
cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot)
does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to
generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your
natural gas supply using one of these units?

What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a
smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer
(when NG demand is low) ?

Break even point is going to depend on a lot of factors that may be
different for everyone.

What is the charge for electricity in your area ?
What is the charge for gas ?
How about the cost of buying the generator, and installing it ?,....then
maintaining it?

I'm sure these are mainly meant for back-up/emergency power, not really to
run off of all the time.
But if it keeps you and your family from freezing in the dark, or saves a
freezer full of meat from going bad. the cost may be well worth whatever.


AMUN

 

[Ignoramus8020]

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7
kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a
turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25
amp) supply.

If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the
cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot)
does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to
generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your
natural gas supply using one of these units?

What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a
smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer
(when NG demand is low) ?

Ask Home Depot how many hours is the generator expected to last. I am
not sure if you would get a meaningful answer. Usually, it would not
be an impressively high number of hours. Let's say that it is made
like a very good automotive engine and could last 5,000
hours. (equivalent of 250,000 miles at 50 mph).

5,000 hours is 208 days. That's how long it would last if it was run
24/7. You may be able to get away with running it less if you had a
battery/inverter system, but that is also big bucks, with batteries
needing replacement etc.

That means that cost of the generator, amortised over its useful life,
is going to be substantial.

I doubt that you would be able to get any better than 2-3 times the
cost of utility supplied electricity.

i

 

[Vaughn]

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7
kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a
turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25
amp) supply.

I usually don't answer posts with more than one x-post. but...

Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times
720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and
compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further
questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to
run my little 4KW generator 24/30.

Please can the excessive crossposting.

Vaughn

 

[wkearney99]

You could just leave it at:

Ask Home Depot...
and

I am not sure if you would get a meaningful answer.

There's nobody at the box stores that even comes close to having a clue
anymore.

 

[Some Guy]

Please can the excessive crossposting.
Vaughn

Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac
alt.home.repair
alt.energy.homepower
sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
misc.consumer

Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those
groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming
devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to
simply not read the post if they didn't want to.

I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not
get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the
post itself.

Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load.
Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out
how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill.
I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe
it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to
run my little 4KW generator 24/30.

We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in
Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on
hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion
of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North
America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to
reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very
expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from
the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an
equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest
days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm
until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply =
Ontario_demand.

Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity
from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for
24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$
vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about
operation only during summer peak hours.

Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning
compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit
is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large
bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?

 

[Oscar_Lives]

Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would
have posted this question to then:

alt.hvac
alt.home.repair
alt.energy.homepower
sci.engr.heat-vent-ac
misc.consumer

Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those
groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming
devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to
simply not read the post if they didn't want to.

I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not
get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the
post itself.


We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in
Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on
hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion
of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North
America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to
reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very
expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from
the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an
equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest
days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm
until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply =
Ontario_demand.

Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity
from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for
24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$
vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about
operation only during summer peak hours.

Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning
compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit
is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large
bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?

That's what you fucking get for living in Canada. You should bow down and
say thanks that the U.S. protects your wimpy butts and gives you so many
free benefits.

If Canada wasn't like it is now, the U.S. might actually consider annexing
it in as state #51.

Count your blessings and quit your whining.

 

[John P.. Bengi]

Back in the 60s Canada was considering selling itself
to the USA for $25 Billion US (they can't count
properly either), $0.025 billion elsewhere, and we
would all have become instant millionaires.

It was found that Canucksville people couldn't be
arogant enough to fit in with the US culture and they
would also lose a country to whine about having
everything they didn't.

Recrossposted just like the whiner did.

 

[Me]

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7
kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a
turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25
amp) supply.

If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the
cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot)
does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to
generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your
natural gas supply using one of these units?

What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a
smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer
(when NG demand is low) ?

The generator you can buy for $3K new, ISN"T ever going to be a Prime
Power Unit. I suspect that you wuld be VERY Lucky to get 10K hours
out of it before it failed. Running 24/7 just isn't in the cards for
anything you can buy from Home Depot, Lowes, or any of those kind of
places. I would think that anyone with any experience in nongrid
power generation wouldrun not walk as fast as possible from any outfit
that advertised such a system.......

Me who actually does generate all my own power.......

 

[PanHandler]

You could just leave it at:


There's nobody at the box stores that even comes close to having a clue
anymore.

If they were knowledgeable about it they wouldn't be working there earning
$7.50/hr.

 

[Oscar_Lives]

The USA protects Canada from an invasion from who exactly?

Hmm, who would want to invade Canada? Let me see, an ignorant asshole
such as yourself?

Good point.

 

[RoughRider]

Look at the glossy for your proposed generator.... It will tell you the
input BTU/hr for various loads or consumption of NG in either cubic feet or
cubic meters per hour. Your small engine is only ABOUT 15% efficient, the
rest of the energy turned to heat and wasted. So simply do your homework
and figure out what it would cost you on a kW/h basis.

Hmm... in Ontario, out of your pocket, taxes, delivery charges, subscriber
fees and all the other nickels and dimes included, a kW/h from the utility
is about 11 cents per kW/h. Your NG is around 55 cents per cubic meter.
Take the BOTTOM LINE (payment due) from your bill and divide by your
consumption.

Every time I run the math looking only at fuel, the NG generator is about
twice as expensive than utility. This doesn't include engine/generator
maintenance and replacement value amortization.

Thats why your question in this group has OFTEN (and only) been seen with a
co-generation twist... trying to recover the waste heat gets things closer
to break even. Liquid cooled engines are good for this, and there are
methods for recovering the exhaust heat too.

 

[Some Guy]

Hmm... in Ontario, out of your pocket, taxes, delivery charges,
subscriber fees and all the other nickels and dimes included, a
kW/h from the utility is about 11 cents per kW/h.

10.62 cents per kwh

Your NG is around 55 cents per cubic meter.

50.46 cents per cubic meter

Every time I run the math looking only at fuel, the NG generator
is about twice as expensive than utility.

Have you seen what peak summer electricity rates are? The spikes are
huge. When Ontario moves fully to time-of-day electric meters, you
can bet that a NG-powered generator will be cheaper to run vs paying
50 cents per kwh during peak hours in the summer. Might even pay to
back-feed your power into the grid (do these units do this?).

Generac guardian home standby generators

http://www.gilchrist-electric.com/generac_generators.html

Heh. Right now, these NG generators are designed to power-up within
seconds of a power failure. The smart thing to do is for them to know
what the current market rate is for electricity (via internet feed).
You set a threshold, and when the market rate exceeds it, the
generator starts up and you switch over to NG power (and/or back-feed
your power into the grid).

What still hasn't been mentioned is the merits of using NG-powered air
conditioning compressors. What's their efficiency like? Wouldn't
they be a good alternative to taking a hit for peak summer electricity
usage?

Does anyone make a combination furnace / home energy plant that can
run on electricity and NG on-demand? Say, to be able to generate
enough electricity from NG to operate the blower motor and outside AC
compressor (in the summer)? Maybe include a water heating unit (hot
water tank) that scavenges waste heat from the operation of the
generator?

That has got to be the future, given where this whole energy mess is
going.

 

[Chris Lewis]

Some Guy's hat is definately on too tight.

Those plants are down because they're broken, need repair, and the
anti-nuke lobby in Ontario has been reasonably successful in persuading
the powers that were over the past 10-20 years to not fix them let alone
build new ones.

Kinda like what's going on in the US, where no new nuke plants have
been built (or even proposed) in at least a decade.

That's what you fucking get for living in Canada.

Built any new nuke plants lately?

You should bow down and
say thanks that the U.S. protects your wimpy butts and gives you so many
free benefits.

The US protects their own butts, gives out nothing for free, and breaks
their own laws and ignores their own treaties to do it. Can you say
"softwood lumber"? I thought so.

If Canada wasn't like it is now, the U.S. might actually consider annexing
it in as state #51.

If there was any truth to what you were saying, I'll do my darndest
to keep it "like it is now".

 

[Chris Lewis]

Have you seen what peak summer electricity rates are? The spikes are
huge.

Those are supply rates. Not consumption rates. They're of short
duration, and do not have to be passed onto the consumer, because
they're insignificant compared to the overall consumption.

When Ontario moves fully to time-of-day electric meters, you
can bet that a NG-powered generator will be cheaper to run vs paying
50 cents per kwh during peak hours in the summer.

What are you smoking?

Might even pay to back-feed your power into the grid (do these
units do this?).

No, of course not. Co-generation controllers are going to at _least_
triple the cost of a generator that size. Your payback period
is going to be several _decades_ - if ever. And it will be never,
no government can survive pulling a trick like that.

Generac guardian home standby generators

Heh. Right now, these NG generators are designed to power-up within
seconds of a power failure. The smart thing to do is for them to know
what the current market rate is for electricity (via internet feed).
You set a threshold, and when the market rate exceeds it, the
generator starts up and you switch over to NG power (and/or back-feed
your power into the grid).

You're going to look awful silly when they get the nuclear plants
back online. Or did you miss the announcement?

 

[Guest]

I usually don't answer posts with more than one x-post. but...

Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply
times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will
cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will
have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best
part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.

Please can the excessive crossposting.

Vaughn

After checking out the consumption of my Hatz 4 cylinder Diesel generator a
couple of weeks ago, it would cost me in fuel alone around $AUS 800.00 per
31 day month (about $US 625.00 per month) the current power bill here for 3
months is 600-700 Australian $$ It will be higher this quarter as it has
been hot and the air conditioning units have been on more I will expect it
will be up around $AUS 800.00 for the quarter.


Oil changes, repairs, depreciation and basic cost of the diesel generator
are NOT included in this cost or running the generator, only fuel.

 

[Geoman^^]

Go ask Home Depot, Why do you bother ten newsgroups and not the one you
will spend your money with?

GO AWAY JERK

 

[Geoman^^]

Hey Ignoramus! This jerk posted this on multiple newsgroups and you answered
him? I understand how you got your name!!!

Let him go to the ones making the $3000 and take the advice of the $7 and
hour no benefits company!

Now both of you GO AWAY

 

[Some Guy]

Diesel generated electricity.

Have you seen the price of diesel? It's about 10% more than gasoline.