A Way to Use Bare Wire on a Toroid

[ehsjr]

Actually, it states "a single strand of litz" which is pretty funny.

Maybe they also sell a "Litz wire separator" machine to
extract that single strand.

By the way, you mentioned aramid paper in another response.
Thanks for that. Gives me a new (to me) thing to learn
about.

Ed

 

[Robert Baer]

I didn't the read patent.
Patents often have that pseudo english patentese that I don't like
reading.
What?? No claim of using bare wire in the patent???.
I just looked at the diagram and used my imagination...
The wire guide really looks useful to keep windings from shorting out
with bare wire..
Litz wire makes sense for HF use.
D from BC

Yea; the guide idea *seems* good, but the expense of making guide
grooves methinks exceeds the expense of putting insulation (eg: enamel
or polyurethane) on wire.

 

[Robert Baer]

Those steel belts tend to be lossy at higher frequencies.

John

They are lossy enough in tires...

 

[Robert Baer]

Speaking of reading, try "NASA Tech Briefs." It's stunning the number
of insane/inane patents they generate at our expense.

John

"Stunning"???
Certainly not in the light of "publish or perish" with an infinite
amount of (our) money available...

 

[Robert Baer]

Maybe they also sell a "Litz wire separator" machine to
extract that single strand.

By the way, you mentioned aramid paper in another response.
Thanks for that. Gives me a new (to me) thing to learn
about.

Ed

???? Aramid *paper* ????
One can sasily get sheets of Kapton in many thickness - but that is
not paper, and combining wood and/or vegatable (cotton, linen, etc)
fiber is a bit wierd,to say the least.

 

[D from BC]

Yea; the guide idea *seems* good, but the expense of making guide
grooves methinks exceeds the expense of putting insulation (eg: enamel
or polyurethane) on wire.

The worst is the CAD time to make the guide.
D from BC

 

[Rich Grise]

Why did the dyslexic cross the road?

A: Side to other the to get.

Yea; the guide idea *seems* good, but the expense of making guide
grooves methinks exceeds the expense of putting insulation (eg: enamel
or polyurethane) on wire.

In the abstract, it mentions "shrink tubing" at least twice:
"... Prior to winding, the wire may be placed within shrink tubing. The
shrink tubing is then wound about the alignment disc and core and then
heat-shrunk to positively retain the wire in the uniform position on the
toroidal core."

Albeit, it does say, "_may_ be placed..." (emphasis mine)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Yea; the guide idea *seems* good, but the expense of making guide
grooves methinks exceeds the expense of putting insulation (eg: enamel
or polyurethane) on wire.

The worst is the CAD time to make the guide.[/QUOTE]

A circle with notches? Five minutes, tops.

Of course, then somebody has to actually physically make the things;
a one-off would be about $60.00 in a real shop, and a stamping
die/injection mold would be about $50,000.00, but the guides would be
probably less than $0.01 each.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Speaking of reading, try "NASA Tech Briefs." It's stunning the number
of insane/inane patents they generate at our expense.

Speaking of NTB, what ever happened to the "forback" converter? It's
kind of a morphodite of forward topology and flyback topology; it
looked pretty cool when I saw it. I used to have a subscription, many
moons ago.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

???? Aramid *paper* ????
One can sasily get sheets of Kapton in many thickness - but that is
not paper, and combining wood and/or vegatable (cotton, linen, etc)
fiber is a bit wierd,to say the least.

Um, you _do_ know that wood is also a vegetable, don't you?

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

A circle with notches? Five minutes, tops.

The die (female part) for punching it would probably look something
like this (looking into the bottom, from where the part falls out)

http://server2.hostingplex.com/~zstoretr/die.jpg

Of course, then somebody has to actually physically make the things;
a one-off would be about $60.00 in a real shop, and a stamping
die/injection mold would be about $50,000.00,

Nah, the punch/die can be made with wire-cut EDM, provided the inside
radii are kept to a reasonable value (design issue). Cheap.

but the guides would be
probably less than $0.01 each.

Cheers!
Rich

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[SuperM@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalax]

Those steel belts tend to be lossy at higher frequencies.

Getting things bass ackwards again as usual, I see.

 

[SuperM@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalax]

Speaking of reading, try "NASA Tech Briefs." It's stunning the number
of insane/inane patents they generate at our expense.

John

More stupidity from you.

Nasa Tech Briefs and the content therein is a cool publication, and
what they cover and research is cool as well.

You fell back into **** off land with that stupid shit, Johnny.

 

[SuperM@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalax]

Maybe they also sell a "Litz wire separator" machine to
extract that single strand.

By the way, you mentioned aramid paper in another response.
Thanks for that. Gives me a new (to me) thing to learn
about.

1500 volts per mil. REALLY good shtuff. Made by DuPont.

I think it was called "Nomex".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomex

Funny how since the originator of wikipedia got his public radio
interview, there is a "This article may require cleanup" banner on the
page!

We call it "fish paper" when it is only a mil thick, but it can be as
much as 50 mils (or more likely).

It is VERY dense, long fibers, and cannot easily be torn. We used a
big paper shear (curved blade, desktop type) to cut it. I can post a
couple pics in abse. I used to use it as a backdrop for some of our
Supply photos, as it had a certain techno image with it that made us
look sharp. ;-]

 

[SuperM@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalax]

???? Aramid *paper* ????
One can sasily get sheets of Kapton in many thickness - but that is
not paper, and combining wood and/or vegatable (cotton, linen, etc)
fiber is a bit wierd,to say the least.

You ain't real bright... boy.

Kapton compresses, and has issues with corona.

NOMEX, which is WIDELY used in transformer and toroid manufacture, IS
rated at 1500 volts per mill breakdown resistance, which is on par or
even better than kapton.

Since I vacuum impregnate my transformers and toroids with varnish, I
don't think it will be taking on any water any time soon.

That same varnish, however, flakes off of Kapton, and beads when
applied. Hint: not good.

Weird indeed.

 

[SuperM@ssiveBlackHoleAtTheCenterOfTheMilkyWayGalax]

The worst is the CAD time to make the guide.

50 mil nomex, can barely bend it, much less crease it...

CAD... five minutes, max.

By hand with a blade... five minutes, max.

SO for production numbers, do the CAD. For a one off do it at the
bench.

Big Whoop.

 

[ehsjr]

1500 volts per mil. REALLY good shtuff. Made by DuPont.

I think it was called "Nomex".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomex

Funny how since the originator of wikipedia got his public radio
interview, there is a "This article may require cleanup" banner on the
page!

We call it "fish paper" when it is only a mil thick, but it can be as
much as 50 mils (or more likely).

Ah! So it's the sames stuff as "fish paper", just thicker.
Thanks, that gives me a start. I've used fish paper.

It is VERY dense, long fibers, and cannot easily be torn. We used a
big paper shear (curved blade, desktop type) to cut it. I can post a
couple pics in abse. I used to use it as a backdrop for some of our
Supply photos, as it had a certain techno image with it that made us
look sharp. ;-]

I'd like to see them.

Ed

 

[ehsjr]

???? Aramid *paper* ????
One can sasily get sheets of Kapton in many thickness - but that is
not paper, and combining wood and/or vegatable (cotton, linen, etc)
fiber is a bit wierd,to say the least.

Well, I Googled "aramid paper" and got > 17,000 hits.
I have a lot of reading to do!

Ed

 

[Robert Baer]

Why did the dyslexic cross the road?

A: Side to other the to get.




In the abstract, it mentions "shrink tubing" at least twice:
"... Prior to winding, the wire may be placed within shrink tubing. The
shrink tubing is then wound about the alignment disc and core and then
heat-shrunk to positively retain the wire in the uniform position on the
toroidal core."

Albeit, it does say, "_may_ be placed..." (emphasis mine)

Cheers!
Rich

That wording makes no sense.
Shrink tubing around wire adds insulation; OK so far.
"Wrap the tubing around..." is obviously the same as wrapping the
wire around - since the wire is inside the tubing...
Now the corker of non-sequiter: "heat-shrink to positively retain..."
would only result in squeezing the wire.
El stupidio.

 

[Robert Baer]

Um, you _do_ know that wood is also a vegetable, don't you?

Cheers!
Rich

Ahh, but... paper was traditionally made from cloth / rags, and the
use of wood pulp was much later (after someone "stole" the idea from wasps).