A secondary -but planned!- use for the speed-detecting radar signal?

[GPG]

RFID tags are typically in the 1-2GHz range... but there are some as
low as 130KHz ;-)

Was thinking of microwave security tag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_article_surveillance

 

[Jim Thompson]

Was thinking of microwave security tag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_article_surveillance

Highest frequency I see in that Wiki article is 900MHz.

...Jim Thompson

 

[The Real Andy]

We all know the primary use of a speed-detecting radar signal used by
law enforcement. The signal is bounced off vehicles in order to
measure their speed. I believe, however, that here are, a few other
(intended?, unintended? bug? feature?) by-products of such signals.

- When I drive near any mall, the signal to detect customers and open
the store doors automatically triggers a false positive in my radar
detector.

- When an ambulance is running, there is also a detectable signal
going on.

- In some toll booths the signal is also present, even though there
are no cops or anything related nearby (there is no need for the speed-
measuring aspect).

Therefore, I speculate that perhaps there is an intended use by the
radar designers. When the ambulances are running in emergency mode,
the signal is a way to tell drivers to move away, to slow down, etc.
BUT (and this is the key issue) the ambulance has no way to detect the
speed of anybody. Some friends of mine claim -with no evidence
whatsoever- that ambulances have a signal to turn on green lights
along their route and this signal "happens" (just by sheer
coincidence) to be in the same band as the speed-detecting radar
signals.

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe. The mall door are perhaps a
coincidence (are they, really?), but the design of a remote street
light changer (with all the dangers that an unexpected asynchronous
light change implies) which by error just happens to be the same
frequency!? Come on!

I claim that the whole thing is planned: I remember reading in the
Boston news that a guy fell asleep and crashed into a toll booth,
killing the attendant. Don't know the details, but such sad accidents
could be prevented by having a radar detector triggering (NOT
measuring I insist) to turn on the beeper in the sleeping guys' car.

Any comments, informed guesses?

-Ramon

ps: which ones would be some pertinent NGs to post this?

Man, when i take a piss at work, there is a radar above me that
automagically detects me and then flushes the pisser. MAybe the
ambulance has a pisser on board.

I wonder if they use radar type frequences in medical places..

 

[Rich Grise]

On 26 Mar 2007 15:21:17 -0700, "Ramon F Herrera" <[email protected]> ....

Man, when i take a piss at work, there is a radar above me that
automagically detects me and then flushes the pisser. MAybe the
ambulance has a pisser on board.

I wonder if they use radar type frequences in medical places..

Are you sure that's RADAR? Isn't it PIR, or maybe SONAR?

I think that whole "Ambulances Have Radar Warnings" thing is a load
of crock, thank you very much.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[joseph2k]

Man, when i take a piss at work, there is a radar above me that
automagically detects me and then flushes the pisser. MAybe the
ambulance has a pisser on board.

No, that auto flusher is passive IR. See "Carl and Jerry; the wolf
whistle".
No toilets on any ambulance that i have been able to check.

 

[Ashton Crusher]

I should have explained (I thought it was obvious) that when a nearby
ambulance is in emergency mode, my radar detector goes crazy. As the
ambulance goes away, the beeping of my RD slows down.

I find rather doubtful that my RD has an optical strobe light
detector. When it boots up, it clearly displays: X-Band, K-Band and
Laser. All 3 are electromagnetic radiations, but they are very far
from the strobe used by ambulances and the infrared used by street
light preempting devices.

A reader in another newsgroup confirmed my suspicion: the emergency
vehicles indeed carry a low level radar transmitter *only* whose
specific purpose is to turn on your RD, and cannot measure (or care)
about your speed.

That's correct. The same radar transmitters are also used on arrow
board warning signs. Some are designed to measure and display your
speed, other just send the signal to make your detector go off to
hopefully get your attention so you'll see the sign.

It is the high tech way of saying "out of my way!".

 

[Rich Grise]

That's correct. The same radar transmitters are also used on arrow
board warning signs. Some are designed to measure and display your
speed, other just send the signal to make your detector go off to
hopefully get your attention so you'll see the sign.

It is the high tech way of saying "out of my way!".

So, if you're tired of the gangstas drag-racing through your neighborhood,
you could put up a little transmitter to trick them into slowing down?

Thanks!
Rich

 

[Ashton Crusher]

So, if you're tired of the gangstas drag-racing through your neighborhood,
you could put up a little transmitter to trick them into slowing down?

Thanks!
Rich

I would assume you could do so if you bought or built such a
transmitter since grocery stores automatic doors spray the whole
surrounding area with radar emissions that set off everyone's
detectors.

 

[Jim Yanik]

That "use" would be illegal in the US.

I would assume you could do so if you bought or built such a
transmitter since grocery stores automatic doors spray the whole
surrounding area with radar emissions that set off everyone's
detectors.

you can BUY real handheld radar speed guns.
They are used in sports.

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

That "use" would be illegal in the US. ....
you can BUY real handheld radar speed guns.
They are used in sports.

So, you're saying they're illegal, but you can buy them? Are you as
schizophrenic as Da Gubmint, or what? Is there some law that says,
"You can use this to clock your kid's teeball ball, but if you use
it to clock the teenage gangsters speeding down the street, we'll
throw you in jail"?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[RG]

So, you're saying they're illegal, but you can buy them? Are you as
schizophrenic as Da Gubmint, or what? Is there some law that says,
"You can use this to clock your kid's teeball ball, but if you use
it to clock the teenage gangsters speeding down the street, we'll
throw you in jail"?

Thanks,
Rich

They DO sell them and it's not illegal. Even you can find then at a TOY
store. Here's a link.

http://www.amazon.com/Mattel-J2358-Hot-Wheels-Radar/dp/B000EHLB0M

It's a toy, but damn sure it can clock real size cars too!!!

Read the reviews.

 

[Jim Yanik]

They DO sell them and it's not illegal.

Certain **"uses"** are illegal.(misuses)

recall the old "code testers" that xmitted on 10.5Ghz,and the FCC outlawed
them,as they were actually intended for setting off RDs in other autos.
That was a misuse.

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

Certain **"uses"** are illegal.(misuses)

recall the old "code testers" that xmitted on 10.5Ghz,and the FCC outlawed
them,as they were actually intended for setting off RDs in other autos.
That was a misuse.

So, let me get this clear in my head - this should be a simple "Yes" or
"No" question.

Are you claiming that I can buy one of these toys to clock my kid's
tee-ball hit, but if I go out in my front yard and use THE EXACT SAME
TOY to clock the hoodlums who are speeding through my neighborhood,
endangering my kids' lives, that the authorities will side with the
hoodlums, and prosecute me for misusing MY OWN TOY?

Yes or No should be sufficient here, if any of you right-wingers are
capable of giving a straight answer to a plain question.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Dave Head]

So, let me get this clear in my head - this should be a simple "Yes" or
"No" question.

Are you claiming that I can buy one of these toys to clock my kid's
tee-ball hit, but if I go out in my front yard and use THE EXACT SAME
TOY to clock the hoodlums who are speeding through my neighborhood,
endangering my kids' lives, that the authorities will side with the
hoodlums, and prosecute me for misusing MY OWN TOY?

Yes or No should be sufficient here, if any of you right-wingers are
capable of giving a straight answer to a plain question.

Thanks,
Rich

Yes or no doesn't catch it.

If you use it to actually clock them, and obtain a reading and record it, that
ain't illegal.

If you set it up to just let the transmitter blather in an effort to set up a
jammer for their radar detector, then that's illegal.

The Federal Communications Commission takes an extremely dim view of jammers of
any sort - they won't let theater owners use 'em to squelch the cell phone
useage that drives everybody nuts in a theater, either. Its just a super no-no
with them.

Dave Head

 

[RG]

So, let me get this clear in my head - this should be a simple "Yes" or
"No" question.

YES, it could be a simple answer.

NO, you will never make it a simple question.

Are you claiming that I can buy one of these toys to clock my kid's
tee-ball hit, but if I go out in my front yard and use THE EXACT SAME
TOY to clock the hoodlums who are speeding through my neighborhood,
endangering my kids' lives, that the authorities will side with the
hoodlums, and prosecute me for misusing MY OWN TOY?

Buy the toy and read the instructions. Read the warnings.

Yes or No should be sufficient here, if any of you right-wingers are
capable of giving a straight answer to a plain question.

Why don't you peruse some websites and get a "simple" answer for yourself?
Riiight, you are a left-winger (pun intended in retaliation to yours), you
want everything in small pieces and "pre-chewed". Let the war begin.

Here, some answers:

1.- www.fcc.gov

2.- Call your local PD

Thanks,
Rich

Now, for the ones who really want to know about the toy radar gun.

http://forums.segwaychat.com/archive/index.php/t-12528.html

This is a good document. Not official. I guess I agree to this parts:

1.- The instructions said no to use it in or near the street
2.- The RF power is so low, it's covered by part 15 of the FCC rules, and no
license is required.
3.- It costs around $25-$35. Uses 10.525 GHz (apparently the "X" band
(http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/MaxLipkin.shtml). Max effective range
39 feet.
4.- Even though this is a toy, it may not be a good idea to use it while
driving or gliding, as it's operation could prove distracting. If it were
higher power, I'm sure it would be considered illegal without the proper
license, such as what's covered by "Part 90" of the FCC rules. Just because
a seven year old is allowed to use it, doesn't make it safe for anyone to
use it in an unsafe manner.

The reason "glider" is included is because the poster, in this website,
wanted to use it in a glider.


So, I guess the bottom line is (at least, my bottom line):

1.- It may be illegal to "point" something that looks like a gun to
motorists.
2.- The transmitting RF level is so low that, it doen't require a licence,
and you can use it outdoors (I'm thinking a kid in a minivan, "targeting"
vehicles).
3.- Apparently, uses X band, which is in the frequency of some automatic
door openers and neon signs (I think), since my radar detector goes crazy
around them. If I stopped in front of FoodMaxx, I get "full" detection.

Now, some "weird" stuff about my Cobra radar detector:

At 7-11 gas station, I get K band. That is the band currently used in
California (north), to my experience, by CHP and local police, dashmounted
or handheld guns. At Best-Buy, my radar detector goes VG-2 at the front
door. VG-2 is a "stealth" mode to avoid detection of the radar detectors,
since it is illegal to have one in you car, in some states. It "shuts off"
the my radar detector for some seconds. Emergency vehicles DOES NOT trigger
my Safety Alert system. Then again, I live in a small city where emergency
lights are sufficient, I guess.

I'm gonna buy two of these toys and set them up in my window sill that looks
to both sides of the street. We all neighbors around have a problem with
some kids "flying" thru this residential neighborhood. I will set it up when
my kids are playing outside, turn them off when not. Hopefully, it will work
and make them slow down enough to realize that there's no cop around. By
then, they will be at the stop sign, ja.

Just until we get our speed bump...

Raul G

 

[Jim Yanik]

No,not YOU using it to measure vehicle speed,but when you wire it up to be
unattended and NOT for measuring vehicle speed,but to interfere with the
LEGAL radar detectors others are using.Georgia police encountered the same
thing when they tried to use old radar guns just to set off RDs,ain an
attept to get drivers to slow down(same thing you want to do..).
The FCC stepped in and that practice was outlawed. The FCC license the gun
operates under is ONLY good for measuring vehicle speed.

Is that straight enough?

Then you're stepping on THEIR rights.

Yes or no doesn't catch it.

If you use it to actually clock them, and obtain a reading and record
it, that ain't illegal.

If you set it up to just let the transmitter blather in an effort to
set up a jammer for their radar detector, then that's illegal.

The Federal Communications Commission takes an extremely dim view of
jammers of any sort - they won't let theater owners use 'em to squelch
the cell phone useage that drives everybody nuts in a theater, either.
Its just a super no-no with them.

Dave Head

Thanks,Dave,my above post was not meant for you.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

- In some toll booths the signal is also present, even though there
are no cops or anything related nearby (there is no need for the speed-
measuring aspect).

The windshield mounted transponders that automatically ID your car and
charge your toll road account are microwave based.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Matthew T. Russotto]

So, let me get this clear in my head - this should be a simple "Yes" or
"No" question.

Are you claiming that I can buy one of these toys to clock my kid's
tee-ball hit, but if I go out in my front yard and use THE EXACT SAME
TOY to clock the hoodlums who are speeding through my neighborhood,
endangering my kids' lives, that the authorities will side with the
hoodlums, and prosecute me for misusing MY OWN TOY?

No. The FCC has jurisdiction, and they aren't likely to care. While
your use of the device is technically illegal, the FCC is too busy
sucking up to phone companies to line its own pockets to be bothered
to prosecute unlicensed operators of radar guns.

However, the authorities can't prosecute the drivers based on your use
of the radar gun. You may as well just get a chair, sit on your
porch, and yell "GET OFF MY LAWN" at anyone who goes by.

Oh, and tell your kids not to play in the street.