a few simple questions about "free" systems...

[TRH]

Hi all, new to the group...

A fellow knocked on our door last night about 8pm and said he was in the
area promoting ADT systems and wondered if we were interested in a
"free" $1200 system if we would let them use our home for "advertising"
etc. It was not a good time so he asked if he could stop by later
today, to which we agreed.

Now listening to various radio ads every day I was under the impression
that most systems were "free", the monitoring is where they get you,
much the same as cell phones. Alarm Force is one that comes to mind, the
other one escapes me right now.

We live in a rural area where homes are within sight of each other so
crime has not been a problem so far, but we think an alarm system may be
worth working at.

However I am not going to be pressured in to this, and I particularly
dislike dealing with door to door salesman.

I'm going to do some googling on this, but thought someone here could
provide some insights into whats good & whats not in this field

 

[wayne]

A good place to start is your insurance compnay.

See if they offer a discount for having an alarm system.

They offer on for deadbolts fire extingishers etc..

Lightining rods probably vary but i live in colorado about average for
lightening insurace company offers no discount so i didn't buy it!

Alarm systems might be fine for you . But a home one you buy yourself that
is wireless would probably work for most common types of breakins.

All the alarms ssytesm do is call the alarm company or teh ploice
dpartment.pros can easily disable by disconnecting phone and then just
letting the alarm go off. in some areas they are ignored just like car
alarms!

Wayne

 

[Marc]

If an ADT out of the blue knocked on my door at 8pm, i would NEVER go with
them. Thats almost as bad as a telemarketer calling during dinner time.

 

[RH.Campbell]

Sir, in this business as in every business, you only get what you pay for.
However, this business has evolved to the point where the primary source of
income is now the monitoring revenues; as such most of the "mass marketing"
companies will artificially lower your pricing at the front end, because
they know they will recoup it over time in the inflated monitoring rate.
Plus, if you haven't had a bad service experience with them, they know you
are likely to simply stay with them even at those high rates, even after you
have fully paid for your system

May I suggest you shop around within the ranks of your friends and
neighbours and get at least three different quotes. Then make your decision
in the cool light of day, based on overall five year costs, including
service and warranty, plus who you feel most comfortable dealing with..

I also have a website which I think may answer your question in much greater
degree...

Best of luck..

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

[BIG NIGE]

if he wants to fit you a free alarm system , then by all means let him, just
make it very clear that you Require a "BELLS ONLY" system and that you are
not willing to sign any contract whatsoever.
If he really is offering what you say he said he is offering and not trying
to get you to sign up for an inflated monitoring contract then there is no
reason to refuse. BUT really it is most likely a con,

 

[J. Sloud]

Hi all, new to the group...

A fellow knocked on our door last night about 8pm and said he was in the
area promoting ADT systems and wondered if we were interested in a
"free" $1200 system if we would let them use our home for "advertising"
etc. It was not a good time so he asked if he could stop by later
today, to which we agreed.

Assuming you are in the US, the person at your door doesn't actually
work for ADT. He works for an independent alarm company who sells
contracts to ADT for monitoring. He is required to tell you which
"authorized dealer" he actually works for. This is important because
the quality of equipment and installations vary greatly from one
dealer to another. The "free system" routine is a bit of a scam
used by these dealers to secure long term contracts that they then
sell to ADT. If the gentleman claims to work directly for ADT, ask
him for a business card and verify that it says ADT and Tyco Fire and
Security and nothing else. ADT itself also sells security systems
directly to the public through sales and service offices located
throughout the country. They do not give away systems, however.

 

[Bossman]

May I suggest you shop around within the ranks of your friends and
neighbours and get at least three different quotes. Then make your decision
in the cool light of day, based on overall five year costs, including
service and warranty, plus who you feel most comfortable dealing with..

I agree with all the above, with one exception. Compare the costs over
the length of the contract you are considering, usually three years.
If you pay nothing up front and pay $29.99 per month for three years,
you are out of pocket about $1080 dollars, which would include the
cost of the equipment, installation labor, and monitoring for those 36
months. You may get a reduced monitoring rate if you pay something up
front...just do the math to compare costs.

Bossman

 

[RH.Campbell]

Yes, you are right. I only used a 60 month term because it tends to show the
differences more fully.

It is my understanding that the average alarm stays in service about 7
years, so you could also use that figure legitimately.

RHC

 

[Mark Leuck]

Yes, you are right. I only used a 60 month term because it tends to show the
differences more fully.

It is my understanding that the average alarm stays in service about 7
years, so you could also use that figure legitimately.

RHC

Robert why do you continue to use 60 month lease examples? Is that all that
is offered up* there?




*"up" in this example is Canada however in the astral plane of this galaxy
it is slightly south-east

 

[Frank Olson]

Robert why do you continue to use 60 month lease examples? Is that all that
is offered up* there?

Nahh... we also have two month leases, but we don't actively promote them,
except of course to Belgium... One month buys you the system, and the next
one gets you the headphones to "muzzle" it...

*"up" in this example is Canada however in the astral plane of this galaxy
it is slightly south-east

Hey... keep "astral planes" out of this... Next thing you know, the
resident "aviation expert" will be saying you can't fly them inverted
either...

 

[RH.Campbell]

No, my example quoted using a five year term has nothing to do with lease
versus purchase. In the example that was being discussed, Bossman was simply
saying that the customer should look at his costs over a three year term to
compare the overall costs of a "free system" versus a more conventional
purchase agreement. I simply stated that a five year comparison term would
be more appropriate since it would show the cash flow differences in a more
obvious way. And since alarms stay in service (I am told) an average of 84
month, it is not unreasonable to do so...

Interesting though that you ask that ! Brings to mind that one of the
largest local suppliers of the zero down system has recently changed his
tune in keeping with the industry trend away from the financed system ! His
"free system" is now a lease while before it was a sale with a three year
buying term. He has also added four more options to his package and now
sells systems outright at high prices as well ( 50% more than I do), and
still charges high monitoring rates. He MUST charge these rates; he has an
annual cost in salaries of over $200 K , plus large building costs, plus
sales commissions, plus a fleet of vehicles. I often wonder how he manages
to stay afloat charging only those rates !! I assume he's like a squirrel in
a cage; he's got to maintain the volumes to maintain the cash flow to pay
all his bills.......yadayadayada......

But in doing so, he has also made my rates far more competitive to clients
who looking for service. Now clients can compare costs more directly and see
the exhorbitant differences without being "fogged" by the phony free system
offer....

PS: Mark, thanks once again for those modem files you sent me last year. I
used them again today in changing out one of my computers. I still can't get
the DLS 2002 to work with the USRobotic 56K external; the panel answers but
doesn't handshake properly with the modem. Guess I'll have to stay with the
MD 12 and my old Cardinal 2400 external. But it works superbly with the
Winload version 2.3 for Paradox Spectra and Digiplex...

RHC

 

[P A U L]

Sir, in this business as in every business, you only get what you pay for.
However, this business has evolved to the point where the primary source of
income is now the monitoring revenues......

Of course, now that it is admitted that wireless alarm systems are
unreliable.. More work for the monitoring stations.. Everybody owning
a wireless system realize that theyre belongings are not safe.

Paul

 

[RH.Campbell]

How the hell you ever come up with that conclusion based on what I said is
beyond me....

Paul, you definately need help...bad...

RHC

 

[P A U L ..]

How the hell you ever come up with that conclusion based on what I said is
beyond me....

Paul, you definately need help...bad...

RHC

Of course, help to understand why you defend a unreliable wireless
alarm system and even not inform your manufacturer(s) about it.

French alarm systems have a better approach, dual frequencies on dual
bands.
Of course its not "the" panacea to Radio Frequency interferences
(RFI) but at least it improves the probability to be caught by that
virus.

Grow up, inform your manufacturers, ask them to provide data about the
reliability of theyre system and force them to admit there is one and
have it improved.. not solved.. impossible.

Paul

 

[RH.Campbell]

No, why would I bother doing that. Wireless systems work well whether you
wan't to believe that or not. Besides, you just keep up your nonsense
because you indeed are a troll and just want to stir up needless
controversy.

You're in the same league as the sickos that release viruses

RHC

 

[P A U L ..]

So a troll against a low level electrician..
Its even not a challenge, the troll as you say, has knowledge of data
exchange true radio wave, a electrician certainly not he uses hiss wet
finger in the wind (nose?) to detect RFI.

Grow up, inform your manufacturers, ask them to provide data about the
reliability of theyre system during RFI and force them to admit
there is a problem and have it improved.. not solved.. impossible.

Paul

 

[Bossman]

No, my example quoted using a five year term has nothing to do with lease
versus purchase. In the example that was being discussed, Bossman was simply
saying that the customer should look at his costs over a three year term to
compare the overall costs of a "free system" versus a more conventional
purchase agreement. I simply stated that a five year comparison term would
be more appropriate since it would show the cash flow differences in a more
obvious way. And since alarms stay in service (I am told) an average of 84
month, it is not unreasonable to do so...

I understand what you're saying, but if you are trying to determine
which deal is better from a cost point of view, the contract term
should be used. At that point, the customer under contract could
switch to the lower rate if they wanted. I think others (present
company excluded) have used five years or more when making comparisons
because if they had used the shorter two or three year contract term,
the deal they offered would cost more than the 'scam' they were
ripping on. I wouldn't accuse you of doing that...you always seem to
be fair handed, and certainly polite, when discussing these matters.
Others have not always been so open minded.

It's curious that while there are many who are willing to rip the
offers posted by other dealers, there are very few who are willing to
post the prices they charge for their specific packages.

Bossman

 

[Frank Olson]

So a troll against a low level electrician..
Its even not a challenge, the troll as you say, has knowledge of data
exchange true radio wave, a electrician certainly not he uses hiss wet
finger in the wind (nose?) to detect RFI.

Grow up, inform your manufacturers, ask them to provide data about the
reliability of theyre system during RFI and force them to admit
there is a problem and have it improved.. not solved.. impossible.

There is *NO* problem with professional grade wireless security systems,
Paul... There hasn't been a single reported case of "RFI causing muzzling
of an alarm system". There is no "wet finger" approach to testing the
system either. You don't know what's involved in setting up a wireless
system like Ademco's, DSC's, ITI's, Napco's, or others. The manuals for all
of these systems are freely available on the web. Why not go through them
and find out for yourself. Order one and *PROVE* to yourself (and us) that
what you say is true (there are several here that will even make one
available for you to independently test). You had a problem with the cheapo
wireless system you purchased off the internet. You're pissed because you
couldn't understand the setup instructions and had to call in a professional
"low level electrician" to fix it.

You are a *troll* because you refuse to listen to reason, or provide one
shred of proof for your claims. It's not up to us to prove the technology.
We all know it works and works well. It's up to you.

You are "retarded" because you obviously can't read or understand how the
piece of junk you purchased is different from the equipment alarm
professionals use every day.

You are an "idiot". A moron. You've taken "stupid" to a whole new level.
Congratulations!

 

[P A U L ..]

Setup manuals are not specifications about the wireless junk in it.
You even don't know what is a "wireless data" specification!

Paul

There is *NO* problem with professional grade wireless security systems,
Paul... There hasn't been a single reported case of "RFI causing muzzling
of an alarm system". There is no "wet finger" approach to testing the
system either. You don't know what's involved in setting up a wireless
system like Ademco's, DSC's, ITI's, Napco's, or others. The manuals for all
of these systems are freely available on the web. Why not go through them
and find out for yourself.

snip usual junk

 

[BigWallop]

There is *NO* problem with professional grade wireless security systems,
Paul... There hasn't been a single reported case of "RFI causing muzzling
of an alarm system". There is no "wet finger" approach to testing the
system either. You don't know what's involved in setting up a wireless
system like Ademco's, DSC's, ITI's, Napco's, or others. The manuals for all
of these systems are freely available on the web. Why not go through them
and find out for yourself. Order one and *PROVE* to yourself (and us) that
what you say is true (there are several here that will even make one
available for you to independently test). You had a problem with the cheapo
wireless system you purchased off the internet. You're pissed because you
couldn't understand the setup instructions and had to call in a professional
"low level electrician" to fix it.

You are a *troll* because you refuse to listen to reason, or provide one
shred of proof for your claims. It's not up to us to prove the technology.
We all know it works and works well. It's up to you.

You are "retarded" because you obviously can't read or understand how the
piece of junk you purchased is different from the equipment alarm
professionals use every day.

You are an "idiot". A moron. You've taken "stupid" to a whole new level.
Congratulations!

Bloody Europeans eh ?