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2N3906 reverse collector-emitter

R

Rich Grise

I need to know how much *reverse* voltage a 2N3906 can withstand accross
emitter-collector as well as base-collector. Datasheets only specify
emitter-base which is 6V.

Is 18V too much?

It tells you right in the data sheet. BVcbo, BVcer, VBceo, BVces...


And yes, duh - if the data sheet says Veb max is 6V, then obviously 18
is too much.
 
K

Kevin Aylward

Rich said:
It tells you right in the data sheet. BVcbo, BVcer, VBceo, BVces...

This doesn't tell you *reverse* Vce.
And yes, duh - if the data sheet says Veb max is 6V, then obviously 18
is too much.

Ahmmm.. duh... obviously he was referring to 18V of *reverse* Vce, not
Veb.

Kevin Aylward
[email protected]
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Kevin Aylward wrote...
This doesn't tell you *reverse* Vce.
Ahmmm.. duh... obviously he was referring to 18V of *reverse* Vce,
not Veb.

Hah, sharp eyes! I think many of us mis-read that. To answer Jean's
question, if it hasn't been answered already, the 2n3906 datasheets
give Vceo and Ccbo, which are the maximum rated collector-emitter and
collector-base voltages, and are 40V for the 2n3906 (note, the 2n3906
is a PNP transistor, so some manufacturer's datasheets carefully say
-Vceo and give 40V). The collector diode is in reverse mode (i.e. the
opposite of forward conduction) for these parameters, which occurs for
normal negative collector voltage operation, beyond about -0.2V. But
Jean T, what do *you* mean by emitter-collector *reverse* voltage? I
suspect you mean what happens when you take the collector positive
with respect to the emitter? This is the opposite, or reverse, of its
normal polarity, and when you do this the collector-base diode takes
the base positive as well. Hence the breakdown limit is Vebo plus a
diode drop, or about 6.5V, given that the Vebo spec is 5.0 volts. So
those who mistakenly misread your question as concerning emitter-base
breakdown were basically correct anyway. :>)

Meanwhile, we see from your further post that in fact you've already
diode-protected your transistor. I have more to say in another post
in this thread, and show an interesting MOSFET circuit.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jean T. wrote...
Normal operating condition:
- I have a 18V supply
- emitter at +18V
- base pulled-down to 0V (ground) through a 10K resitor
- I added a diode between base and emitter, anode to the base
- then the collector "outputs" +18V (less 100mV may be) to some load

Good, you have properly protected the emitter-base junction.
Now if we reverse the 18V supply:
- the diode protects the base-emitter
- I end up with a full reverse 18V accross collector-emitter
(there is a minimal load at collector)

If I read your schematic correctly, the 10k will cause 1.7mA of
current through your base-emitter protection diode, and the base
will be at about -17.3 volts. The PNP's collector-to-base diode
will be forward biased and the collector will be pulled down to
about -16.6 volts. It'll easily carry all the current your load
provides. The 2n3906 won't be damaged, but your load might be!

If you add a second diode in series with the PNP's collector, as
Fred suggested, then under the normal supply connection you'll
get about +17.2 volts out, and under reverse supply you'll have
an open circuit. If you use a Schottky diode, you'll normally
get about 17.5 volts.

If your goal is simply to provide a low-voltage drop protection
against reverse input supply, that can be accomplished with a
single P-channel MOSFET, wired as shown,

| +18V in
| o---------D S--- +18V out, with
| G the load to gnd
| |
| gnd

It may seem amazing, but you get out Vin less a small drop for the
current through the FET's low Rds(on) resistance, and for reverse-
input (negative-voltage) fault conditions, you'll get nothing!

The drawing above doesn't show the FET's intrinsic substrate diode,
which conducts in the desired direction, creating a ~ +17V output.

| ,--|>|--,
| o-------+-D S-+-- out
| G
| |
| gnd

The substrate diode provides enough gate voltage to turn on the FET,
which is then strongly on, in parallel with the diode. For example,
if you use an IRF9Z34 FET, it'll be about 0.07 ohms* (0.14 ohms max),
so you can pass 8 amps with less than 0.5V drop. If you pass more
than 10A, the FET's diode substrate conducts in parallel with the
channel, but sadly the diodes in most p-channel FETs are real wimps,
so it won't help out much over the already good-enough Rds(on).

The IRF9Z34 will hold off 60V, but watch out, if the input voltage
can ever exceed +/-20V, even for an instant, you'll need to protect
the FET's fragile gate with a zener diode, like this,

| +V in Low-voltage-drop high-current
| o---------D S-----+-- +V out reverse-protection "diode"
| G |
| | 15V | FET R(on) +/-Vmax
| +--|>]--' ------- ----- -------
| | 100k irf9z34 0.14 60V
| '---/\/\--- gnd irf9540 0.2 100V
| irf9640 0.5 200V

The FET's rating must be higher than the maximum reverse voltage
that could be presented, but you can P-type FETs rated up to 500V.

* from the irf9z34 datasheet figure 1, Characteristic Curves.

Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dot-org for now)
 
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