X-box power cords recalled

[David L. Jones]

Microsoft are recalling 14.1 million X-Box power cords!
http://www.xboxworld.com.au/news/leading.php?idNews=893

Dave

 

[Fred Ferd]

Microsoft are recalling 14.1 million X-Box power cords!
http://www.xboxworld.com.au/news/leading.php?idNews=893

Dave

So they are making the cord inflammable or have a higher melting point,
to repair what is actually a power supply problem ????

If the OLD power cord's xbox end plug is getting to melting point, then the
new one will still cause injury as its at a high temperature ????? plug at
high temperature, and I remove it from the xbox and touch it to my nose. Now
I have a burnt nose ???


I dont get it. How can a power cord be faulty ? What if I have a $150 custom
power cord ? what spec does it have to be to be safe ?

Surely they have to recall the actuall X box and replace them with ones
that dont get a hot power supply ????

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Ferd"

So they are making the cord inflammable or have a higher melting point,
to repair what is actually a power supply problem ????

** Hardly likely.

If the OLD power cord's xbox end plug is getting to melting point, then
the new one will still cause injury as its at a high temperature ?????

** Even less likely.

plug at high temperature, and I remove it from the xbox and touch it to my
nose. Now I have a burnt nose ???

** How asinine.

I dont get it.

** That is for sure.

How can a power cord be faulty ?

** Lots of ways.

What if I have a $150 custom power cord ? what spec does it have to be to
be safe ?

** Lots of specs need to be met.

Surely they have to recall the actuall X box and replace them with ones
that dont get a hot power supply ????

** The cord is said to get very hot at the end where it plugs into the
X -box.

Have you never seen a corroded AC mains plug get very hot in use due to
high contact resistance ??

Ever heard of I squared R ????




.................. Phil

 

[Fred Ferd]

I dont get it.

** That is for sure.

Well I am glad you agree, but you clearly dont either, you useless excuse
for used toilet paper.

** Lots of ways.

Thats good to know.

** Lots of specs need to be met.

Usually the only thing that varies from device to device is the amperage.
What specs would you say the Xbox needed that was wrong with the power
cables that were supplied ???

You dont answer, because you dont know.

X -box.

But wont it do that to any power cord then ?

If it does, doesnt that mean the Xbox itself is faulty ?

I think I remember some comment before that the modification is to put some
component into the power cord...

Have you never seen a corroded AC mains plug get very hot in use due to
high contact resistance ??

Yes, I have seen that. On a clothes drier.
xbox , clothes drier. I dont get it.
you havent explained anything.

Ever heard of I squared R ????

As if linear R is be found in this context.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Fred Ferd" = congenital fuckwit

Well I am glad you agree, but you clearly dont either, you useless excuse
for used toilet paper.

** Mental diarrhoea like Fred's needs more than just toilet paper.

Usually the only thing that varies from device to device is the amperage.
What specs would you say the Xbox needed that was wrong with the power
cables that were supplied ???
You dont answer, because you dont know.

** Go learn to read you fucking imbecile.

But wont it do that to any power cord then ?

** How utterly asinine - if the heat is localised so also must be the
resistance that causes it.

Yes, I have seen that. On a clothes drier.
xbox , clothes drier. I dont get it.

** When they can do full brain transplants then you may have a chance.

Meanwhile - just shut the **** up.

you havent explained anything.

** Go learn to read - imbecile.

As if linear R is be found in this context.

** No need for R to be linear - just high.

Go look up "contact resistance" and learn something for once.





........... Phil

 

[David L. Jones]

So they are making the cord inflammable or have a higher melting point,
to repair what is actually a power supply problem ????

If the OLD power cord's xbox end plug is getting to melting point, then the
new one will still cause injury as its at a high temperature ????? plug at
high temperature, and I remove it from the xbox and touch it to my nose. Now
I have a burnt nose ???


I dont get it. How can a power cord be faulty ? What if I have a $150 custom
power cord ? what spec does it have to be to be safe ?

Surely they have to recall the actuall X box and replace them with ones
that dont get a hot power supply ????

They are being very cagey about not revealing the exact cause of the
fault.
Supposed full details are here:
http://replacements.webprogram.com/en-au/faqs.asp#Q-1
Betcha they had a dozen lawers tell them the absolute minimum they had
to say!

Perhaps the contacts aren't making good contact on some cords?
The new ones might have a tighter controlled tolerance on the contact
diameter, or greater contact area or something like that?

Dave

 

[David, not to be confused with the other Davids.]

So they are making the cord inflammable or have a higher melting point,
to repair what is actually a power supply problem ????

If the OLD power cord's xbox end plug is getting to melting point, then the
new one will still cause injury as its at a high temperature ????? plug at
high temperature, and I remove it from the xbox and touch it to my nose. Now
I have a burnt nose ???

I wouldn't trivialise what could be a really serious problem.

Disclaimer - I have no first hand knowledge about the X-Box issue. I do have
first hand knowledge about the following.

Without going into too many specific details there is possibly a defect in the
Figure 8 plug. These plugs are moulded in two parts (actually more than two,
but nonetheless I'll continue) - one part is the Fig 8 bit, which is then
joined onto the cord achorage assembly (the other bit). This way you can make
different ends for the same cord-grip moulding. When pushed back against a
solid object the cord flexes at the grip and strains the moulded joint.
Usually the joint is reslient enough to withstand this treatment (rough
handling but expected in normal use). A particular maker of these plugs & cords
uses/used a design that did not withstand this treatment and which sheared off,
either partially or fully. The result was either a non-exposed broken
connection (sometimes with subsequent internal arcing) or exposed pins at mains
potential where the fracture occurs. The most common interration is the
internal fracture which leads to an overheated plug - arcing due to the inrush
current of the PSU flashing across the fracture. The open fracture leaves
exposed mains and the applicance may continue to work, or work intermittently,
or stop working. The most obvious thing for the user to do in the latter two
cases is to check the cord is properly inserted - burns have resulted where the
user has reached behind the appliance and bridged the mains with a finger or
hand **

Still want to pull it out and touch it to your nose?

I dont get it. How can a power cord be faulty ? What if I have a $150 custom
power cord ? what spec does it have to be to be safe ?

Well you could start with AS/NZS/IEC 60227 for the cord and AS/NZS/IEC 60320
for the Fig 8 plug and then AS/NZS 3112 for the Aus/NZ plug. Make sure you
have a good supply of funds though.

** Safety switches were either not fitted or did not operate - in the case of
an unearthed appliance, and the person is well insulated from earth themselves,
and they contact neutral before active, and they dirctly bridge neutral and
active a bad burn can/may/did happen.

The above issue appeared in Australia over two years ago but I have no idea if
this affects the X-Box. Once again I state I have NO knowledge of the X-Box
issues and do not allude the above applies to the X-Box. However it uses the
same style of connector and I posted this to answer Fred's "I dont get it. How
can a power cord be faulty ?" question. Power cords can be faulty and if they
fail it is possible (even more likely) to be a high risk failure, thats why
they are a 'declared" acticle requiring safety approval. Even then its not an
infallible system.

 

[Poxy]

I wouldn't trivialise what could be a really serious problem.

Disclaimer - I have no first hand knowledge about the X-Box issue. I
do have first hand knowledge about the following.

Without going into too many specific details there is possibly a
defect in the Figure 8 plug. These plugs are moulded in two parts
(actually more than two, but nonetheless I'll continue) - one part is
the Fig 8 bit, which is then joined onto the cord achorage assembly
(the other bit). This way you can make different ends for the same
cord-grip moulding. When pushed back against a solid object the
cord flexes at the grip and strains the moulded joint. Usually the
joint is reslient enough to withstand this treatment (rough handling
but expected in normal use). A particular maker of these plugs &
cords uses/used a design that did not withstand this treatment and
which sheared off, either partially or fully. The result was either
a non-exposed broken connection (sometimes with subsequent internal
arcing) or exposed pins at mains potential where the fracture occurs.
The most common interration is the internal fracture which leads to
an overheated plug - arcing due to the inrush current of the PSU
flashing across the fracture. The open fracture leaves exposed mains
and the applicance may continue to work, or work intermittently, or
stop working. The most obvious thing for the user to do in the
latter two cases is to check the cord is properly inserted - burns
have resulted where the user has reached behind the appliance and
bridged the mains with a finger or hand **

Still want to pull it out and touch it to your nose?


Well you could start with AS/NZS/IEC 60227 for the cord and
AS/NZS/IEC 60320 for the Fig 8 plug and then AS/NZS 3112 for the
Aus/NZ plug. Make sure you have a good supply of funds though.

** Safety switches were either not fitted or did not operate - in the
case of an unearthed appliance, and the person is well insulated from
earth themselves, and they contact neutral before active, and they
dirctly bridge neutral and active a bad burn can/may/did happen.

The above issue appeared in Australia over two years ago but I have
no idea if this affects the X-Box. Once again I state I have NO
knowledge of the X-Box issues and do not allude the above applies to
the X-Box. However it uses the same style of connector and I posted
this to answer Fred's "I dont get it. How can a power cord be faulty
?" question. Power cords can be faulty and if they fail it is
possible (even more likely) to be a high risk failure, thats why they
are a 'declared" acticle requiring safety approval. Even then its
not an infallible system.

Right, so you're saying that the X-Box plugs are badly manufactured, are
prone to fracturing, heating, arcing and exposed contacts leading to burns
and/or the knind of electric shock that not even a safety switch can protect
against, and to test this you should hold the plug to your nose?

 

[David]

Right, so you're saying that the X-Box plugs are badly manufactured, are
prone to fracturing, heating, arcing and exposed contacts leading to burns
and/or the knind of electric shock that not even a safety switch can protect
against, and to test this you should hold the plug to your nose?

Thats not what I said, perhaps you should read the whole thread again.

and to test this you should hold the plug to your nose?

Why did I bother? (rhetorical)

 

[Martin]

Thats not what I said, perhaps you should read the whole thread again.


Why did I bother? (rhetorical)

Obviously you typed way too fast for many (they can't read very fast) and
used too many big words. ;-)

 

[Poxy]

Thats not what I said, perhaps you should read the whole thread again.


Why did I bother? (rhetorical)

I don't know, but they're pretty bold claims, "rhetorical" or not.

 

[Poxy]

If you haven't read the whole thread, I think you may be
misunderstanding something. David simply explained how the
manufacturing process that makes cords like these (he was overly
concious of not badmouthing the company that makes the cords for
X-Box, damn lawyers) can lead to a weak join that can fracture a
wire. As I'm sure you know, if a wire is broken it will not conduct,
but if it is almost broken, then it will have extremely high
resistance and generate heat.
What you have quoted above was actually you para-phrasing what was
said, like what I have done. The nose comment was something to do
with someone burning there nose. there was no suggestion that is how
you should test for heat.
As for the rhetorical part, that means he doesn't really expect an
answer. More that he was just sitting pondering why he wasted his
time and effort to try to explain something when he ends up with
stupid posts like yours

Fair enough - it just seemed a little full on, but at the same time quite
reasonable. Clearly I misunderstood the nose test.

 

[Matthew Gunn]

I don't know, but they're pretty bold claims, "rhetorical" or not.

If you haven't read the whole thread, I think you may be
misunderstanding something. David simply explained how the
manufacturing process that makes cords like these (he was overly
concious of not badmouthing the company that makes the cords for X-Box,
damn lawyers) can lead to a weak join that can fracture a wire. As I'm
sure you know, if a wire is broken it will not conduct, but if it is
almost broken, then it will have extremely high resistance and generate
heat.
What you have quoted above was actually you para-phrasing what was said,
like what I have done. The nose comment was something to do with
someone burning there nose. there was no suggestion that is how you
should test for heat.
As for the rhetorical part, that means he doesn't really expect an
answer. More that he was just sitting pondering why he wasted his time
and effort to try to explain something when he ends up with stupid posts
like yours

 

[David L. Jones]

Microsoft are recalling 14.1 million X-Box power cords!
http://www.xboxworld.com.au/news/leading.php?idNews=893

Dave

I just got my replacement power cord, that was quick!
I was shocked (no pun intended!) when I opened the box. I was expecting
the same lead but instead I got the lead with an large black box in
series. It looks like an ELCB with a reset button, test button, and an
indicator on it.
On the back it has 200-240V, 610mA.
So it's most likely a precision electronic resettable fuse and/or core
balance circuit breaker to protect against a major fault within the
Xbox.
Presumably the plug getting hot thing was just a consequence of the
real fault, a massive overload in the Xbox. Incidently, the plug is
only rated at 2.5A, typical for that style plug I think.

It even comes with it's own 85 page instruction manual in the usual
multiple languages.
Quote:
"The Xbox protection cord disconnects power to the Xbox console when it
detects 1.A problem with the the electrical power supplied to the Xbox.
2. An Electrical problem with the Xbox console."

Dave

 

[conbo]

I just got my replacement power cord, that was quick!
I was shocked (no pun intended!) when I opened the box. I was expecting
the same lead but instead I got the lead with an large black box in
series. It looks like an ELCB with a reset button, test button, and an
indicator on it.

My wife got the same as you however I got a standard fig 8 power cord.
Her XBox is about a year older than mine, if that helps.

 

[Poxy]

My wife got the same as you however I got a standard fig 8 power cord.
Her XBox is about a year older than mine, if that helps.

Does the X-Box cord have an earth? I assumed it was an double-insulated
device, for which an ELCB doesn't make a lot of sense - perhaps the older
models are having a low-current circuit breaker added to the cord?

 

[KLR]

Does the X-Box cord have an earth? I assumed it was an double-insulated
device, for which an ELCB doesn't make a lot of sense - perhaps the older
models are having a low-current circuit breaker added to the cord?

If it was indeed an ELCB - then it would work effectively to protect
the user if the cord was damaged (on the console side of the ELCB),
conductors were exposed and contact was made with either of the 2
exposed mains conductors to the body.an ELCB doesnt need an earth connection to work - it only needs
current in excess of its tripping current (35ma for typical home ELCB)
from ONE of its 2 outputs to be flowing to its earth, it then senses
an imbalance between the 2 wires (active and neutral) and then
activates - to shut off the powerIt really surprises me that they have gone to this trouble - and
wonder what on earth happened (with the faulty cords) to prompt them
to go to such extreme measures (and MASSIVE expense) with replacement
cords ?

 

[David L. Jones]

Does the X-Box cord have an earth? I assumed it was an double-insulated
device, for which an ELCB doesn't make a lot of sense - perhaps the older
models are having a low-current circuit breaker added to the cord?

No, it doesn't have an earth, it is a stadard 2 pin Fig.8 plug.
As KLR said, it doesn't need an earth pin to work, it can simply detect
the imbalance in the return current.

Dave

 

[Brian Goldsmith]

No, it doesn't have an earth, it is a stadard 2 pin Fig.8 plug.
As KLR said, it doesn't need an earth pin to work, it can simply detect
the imbalance in the return current.

Dave


***If the Xbox doesnt have an earth pin and is correctly double insulated
how can there possibly be an imbalance in the "return" current.?

Brian Goldsmith.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Brian Goldsmith"

"David L. Jones"

No, it doesn't have an earth, it is a stadard 2 pin Fig.8 plug.
As KLR said, it doesn't need an earth pin to work, it can simply detect
the imbalance in the return current.

Dave


***If the Xbox doesnt have an earth pin and is correctly double insulated
how can there possibly be an imbalance in the "return" current.?

** Via the operator's body to ground presumably :-(


BTW

DLJ has not proved the lump in HIS new lead is an RCD.





.............. Phil