World's first programmable digital computer brought back to life.

[Jamie]

Jamie wrote:




And ANOTHER !

I suppose you will say it was deliberate ?

Graham

Everything I do is by design. Get use to it, some have it
some don't.

 

[Frank Buss]

Not electronic. Did the article not mention that ?

You are right, the Z1 and Z3 were built with relays, as written in the
Wikipedia articles. The article at dailymail mention that Colossus was
built with valves, but it says it is the first digital programmable
computer. It doesn't matter, if you use relays or valves (ok, relays are a
bit slower , both are "digital". And I wouldn't call Colossus a
"computer", because the (more technical) article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer states, that it is not
Turing complete and it is programmable only by rewiring.

But of course, Colossus was a very good and fast machine for the purpose
for which it was built, but not the first and not a general purpose
computer.

 

[Hal Murray]

And I wouldn't call Colossus a

"computer", because the (more technical) article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer states, that it is not
Turing complete and it is programmable only by rewiring.

So it's not a computer because the code lives in ROM?

I wonder what fraction of "computers" shipped these days
run code out of ROM. They ship a lot of micros.

 

[Frank Buss]

So it's not a computer because the code lives in ROM?

I wonder what fraction of "computers" shipped these days
run code out of ROM. They ship a lot of micros.

That's true, but you can write programs for microcomputers, which can
compute anything you want, e.g. writing a game for it. That means Turing
complete. Would be interesting to study the details of the Colossus
architecture, but looks like it can decrypt messages, only.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

It should be obvious to you which he meant, and it was not your first
mention.

It might also have been a reference to the late Alan Hale-- the
American actor who was best known for his role as the Skipper on the
sitcom Gilligan's Island.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Nobody]

You are right, the Z1 and Z3 were built with relays, as written in the
Wikipedia articles. The article at dailymail mention that Colossus was
built with valves, but it says it is the first digital programmable
computer. It doesn't matter, if you use relays or valves (ok, relays are a
bit slower , both are "digital". And I wouldn't call Colossus a
"computer", because the (more technical) article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer states, that it is not
Turing complete and it is programmable only by rewiring.

But the article doesn't state *why* they don't consider it to be
Turing-complete. In practice, this could either mean that it cannot
implement an unbounded loop, or that it doesn't have access to unlimited
external storage. If it's the latter, that's probably an inappropriate
distinction; a standalone PC isn't Turing-complete in that sense, either.

Being programmable only through re-wiring isn't qualitatively different
from being programmable only through punched tape, unless the system can
re-write its own punched tape.

The first stored-program computers didn't appear until the early 1950s
(Manchester Mk1 and EDSAC).

 

[Tim Williams]

You are right, the Z1 and Z3 were built with relays, as written in the
Wikipedia articles. The article at dailymail mention that Colossus was
built with valves, but it says it is the first digital programmable
computer. It doesn't matter, if you use relays or valves (ok, relays are a
bit slower , both are "digital".

Ah, but if your distinction forgives the electronic or electromechanical or
mechanical nature of the device, then surely Charles' old engine is as
acceptable? Maybe not as binary, but discrete in any case.

Not quite as high a clock rate though...

Tim

 

[Frank Buss]

But the article doesn't state *why* they don't consider it to be
Turing-complete. In practice, this could either mean that it cannot
implement an unbounded loop, or that it doesn't have access to unlimited
external storage. If it's the latter, that's probably an inappropriate
distinction; a standalone PC isn't Turing-complete in that sense, either.

I assume it is more something like unbounded loops, because the Z3 is
labeld as Turing complete and this computer doesn't have unlimited external
storage

 

[Frank Buss]

Ah, but if your distinction forgives the electronic or electromechanical or
mechanical nature of the device, then surely Charles' old engine is as
acceptable? Maybe not as binary, but discrete in any case.

Do you mean this machine? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_engine
Yes, I think this is acceptable. Unfortunately Babbage couldn't built it,
because of difficult mechanics. But I think I've read somewhere that it was
build some years ago, can't find the article.

 

[Nobody]

Do you mean this machine? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_engine
Yes, I think this is acceptable. Unfortunately Babbage couldn't built it,
because of difficult mechanics. But I think I've read somewhere that it was
build some years ago, can't find the article.

No, it was the difference engine which was built recently. But that isn't
Turing-complete.

 

[Rich Grise]

At the end of WW2, it was considered so secret that Churchill ordered
its destruction ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ogy.html?in_article_id=494225&in_page_id=1965

Careful with that "World's first" schtuff - it's too easy to look up:
http://www.cs.iastate.edu/jva/jva-archive.shtml

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie]

_hale_ adjective: retaining exceptional health and vigor

Of course it's possible he meant to write "hail" ("heil" in German)
"used to express acclamation"

Well, I grew up in Minnesota, and there, we have to learn to acclimate
ourselves to hail and all other kinds of nasty weather. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie]

It might also have been a reference to the late Alan Hale-- the American
actor who was best known for his role as the Skipper on the sitcom
Gilligan's Island.

Or Nathan Haley, who said, "I regret I have but one life to give for
my country..."

This has since come to be nkown as Haley's Comment. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Nobody]

Careful with that "World's first" schtuff - it's too easy to look up:
http://www.cs.iastate.edu/jva/jva-archive.shtml

Right. So Iowa State Uni argues that a system developed at Iowa State
Uni was the world's first. Not exactly a disinterested party.

The fundamental problem with the title of "world's first computer" is
how you define "computer".

About the only thing that you can really be sure of is that nothing after
the Manchester Mk1 can claim that title, as there haven't been any
qualitative changes since then. Pretty much every architecture from the
abacus to the Mk1 has some claim to the title, depending upon exactly
where you want to put the goalposts.

 

[John Fields]

I openly admit a miss spelling. The results of not proof reading
after a quick spell check run.

Also, given that i'm from Maine (USA) as every one knows what they
say about Maine people "We're all Related", may lead to facts of my
insidious and maybe a little demented, posts/replies towards some people
much like Mr. Graham or was that Ham?

How ever, There is one thing that has been puzzling me? Some time ago
I looked up "Eeyore" assuming that it had some meaning. What I found
was this..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeyore

Which leads me to wonder if Mr. Graham sleeps with these at night.

Curiosity of a man from Maine where every one is related.

 

[John Fields]

Haha.

You're one to talk.

---
You're right. I am.

You might not have noticed, being the churl you are, but I very
seldom play the inflammatory rhetoric card unless someone else
starts it.

Someone like you, who with your incessant America bashing and your
equally incessant snide "I'm better than you are" comments, needs to
be put down.

Who's your Vet?

 

[John Fields]

Not electronic. Did the article not mention that ?



Electro-mechanical not electronic.

 

[John Fields]

Or Nathan Haley, who said, "I regret I have but one life to give for
my country..."

 

[Clifford Heath]

Or Nathan Haley, who said, "I regret I have but one life to give for
my country..."
This has since come to be nkown as Haley's Comment. ;-)

I believe some folk took to calling the * symbol a "nathan" after
that, because he only had "one asterisk".

Clifford Heath.

 

[krw]

It might also have been a reference to the late Alan Hale-- the
American actor who was best known for his role as the Skipper on the
sitcom Gilligan's Island.

Or Nathan Hale, a captain of a different sort.