Wood Gas or Syngas Gasification of Bio-Mass

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<36r8e515cnjd8n1fkcfvequ7m66ps2q2vg@4ax.
com>,

New_idea,

For me, this is not primarily about making bio-gas, although it's a
process of interest, it's about solar production of hydrogen, in the
book:
The chemistry and manufacture of hydrogen
by Philip Litherland Teed
http://books.google.com/books?id=iiFDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=hydrogen+circular+hear
th&output=text

… the author lays out a war-time (WWI) process for making huge amounts
of hydrogen with a small-scale device. In my research of hydrogen
there seems to be two issues, storage and hydrogen production. On a
home-scale, I think I have a solution for storage, but electrolyzing
water/KOH for hydrogen has always been a bit troubling, energy-wise.

Any process used during WW1 or WW2 will
not necessarily be the most efficient,
just the most expeditious

Like bio-gasification which uses bio-fuel to produce the heat, carbon,
and steam to then produce 20% of each hydrogen (H2) and carbon
monoxide (CO), the process in the above book uses carbon (C), steam,
and oxygen to 50% of each hydrogen (H2) and carbon dioxide (CO2) with
no nitrogen. I'm obviously interest producing the hydrogen, the carbon
dioxide can also be used to feed the algae to accelerated growth rate.

Even using genetic modified "fast growing trees" I'm still back to the
issue of falling, cutting, transporting, splitting and cubing the
wood, which algae may provide a solution to.

Curbie

Fast growing trees will also require
external fertilizers unless you are
capable of modifying the tree to provide
it's own nitrogen OR provide lots of
compost...all of which means more work.

 

[Curbie]

Any process used during WW1 or WW2 will

not necessarily be the most efficient,
just the most expeditious

You're totally right, my thought is mixing the OLD and inefficient
with the NEW for improved efficiency, instead of using fuel to produce
heat for carbon and steam, I'm thinking about solar concentration.
Carbonize the fuel in a solar oven, then gasify the carbon with steam
again produced with a concentrator.

Using solar to provide the heat should lead to a vast reduction in
bio-fuel requirements (just bio-mass for carbonization) and a pretty
large increase in efficiency. Any way, that what I'm thinking.

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<j4b9e5tn0qm2h5agdfradk4q1i1mg03bps@4ax.
com>,

You're totally right, my thought is mixing the OLD and inefficient
with the NEW for improved efficiency, instead of using fuel to produce
heat for carbon and steam, I'm thinking about solar concentration.
Carbonize the fuel in a solar oven, then gasify the carbon with steam
again produced with a concentrator.

Using solar to provide the heat should lead to a vast reduction in
bio-fuel requirements (just bio-mass for carbonization) and a pretty
large increase in efficiency. Any way, that what I'm thinking.

Curbie

I would suspect that even with solar,
you are going to have to spend time and
energy on "processing" your fuel.

I'm beginning to think it might be far
more economical to just make bio-gas via
anaerobic processing and either use the
methane or just process it to seperate
the hydrogen...hell just using clean
methane to run a small generator to
hydrolyze water sounds better, plus you
get nice sludge to improve your soil.

 

[Curbie]

I would suspect that even with solar,
you are going to have to spend time and
energy on "processing" your fuel.

You lost me here, could you please explain your thought on what I'm
missing.

Thanks,

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Jim,

My thoughts on pre-processing algae have some consideration given to
semi-automation:
1) Pumping water/algae from an algae pond to a centrifuge.
2) The centrifuge being of the type common in modern fruit and
vegetable juicers, with a DC motor driving a stainless steel cup the
sides being made from a fine filter mesh and the bottom being slightly
smaller in diameter than the top, giving the cup's sides a small
outward bevel.
3) When the water/algae is pimped into the bottom of the
centrifuge cup, the water spins through the cup's mesh sides into the
water return chamber and the algae rolls over the top of the cup's
sides into a pulp chamber due to centrifugal force and outward bevel
(the same as modern juicers, less pulping).
4) The centrifuge would be at the top of pseudo-silo and the
algae would gravity feed into the holding bin, the algae should be
semi-dried (how much, I don't know) by the centrifuge.
5) From the holding bin the algae would be feed by gravity (maybe
auger assisted) to log press (like a log splitter) to press out most
of the remaining water and from a log for baking.
6) Next the algae logs would be feed (somehow?) to the solar oven
(I'm thinking roughly the same dimension as an algae log) to bake them
into carbon logs at the sun's discretion.
7) It seems possible the same solar oven might be used for the
gasification of the carbon log, after carbonization is complete,
although I think due to temperatures involved with gasification, there
will need to will need to be two concentrators one for the oven heat,
and a smaller one for steam.

This is just a "mind's eye" thought, and seems like a lot of effort
and energy with powering the pump, centrifuge, auger, and press, but
it seems to me that this notion should be compared to the effort and
energy of falling, logging, transporting, splitting, and cubing trees.

Curbie

 

[Ulysses]

<j4b9e5tn0qm2h5agdfradk4q1i1mg03bps@4ax.
com>,


I would suspect that even with solar,
you are going to have to spend time and
energy on "processing" your fuel.

I'm beginning to think it might be far
more economical to just make bio-gas via
anaerobic processing and either use the
methane or just process it to seperate
the hydrogen...hell just using clean
methane to run a small generator to
hydrolyze water sounds better, plus you
get nice sludge to improve your soil.

Whenever I get the woodgas bug up my butt (this happens somewhere close to
annually) and start gathering up parts to build it and figuring out what
else I need and what the benefits and drawbacks are I always end up looking
more into steam power or methane production. Methane seems to be rather
complicated too and steam seems to be a little simpler except when it comes
to the engine to drive a generator. Making steam using either wood or a
solar furnace seems to be easy enough. Making a solar tracker doesn't seem
to be too complicated. It's just a matter of what do you feed the steam
into to make electricity.

 

[Curbie]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:38:49 -0800, "Ulysses"

Ulysses,

Whenever I get the woodgas bug up my butt (this happens somewhere close to
annually) and start gathering up parts to build it and figuring out what
else I need and what the benefits and drawbacks are I always end up looking
more into steam power or methane production. Methane seems to be rather
complicated too and steam seems to be a little simpler except when it comes
to the engine to drive a generator. Making steam using either wood or a
solar furnace seems to be easy enough. Making a solar tracker doesn't seem
to be too complicated. It's just a matter of what do you feed the steam
into to make electricity.

I'm not quite sure; a solar steam process uses solar energy to produce
enough steam to drive every stroke of a steam engine, while the
bio-fuel process first uses solar energy to grow the fuel feed-stock,
and then uses only enough solar heat to drive the chemical process
that produces the fuel to drive every stroke of an engine. To my eye
there seems to be two different processes at work here.

I've run the numbers on steam, and have NOT run the numbers on
bio-fuel gasification that's what I'm up to now, in order the see
what's there.

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<ounae5901sjpkd57u4iph3ouq3j5a52r95@4ax.
com>,

You lost me here, could you please explain your thought on what I'm
missing.

Thanks,

Curbie

You just can't throw chunks of wood or
branches into your pyrolizer, you'd have
to spend some energy cutting them into
size/shapes to maximize the surface area

 

[Curbie]

Jim,

I think Ken was following my train of thought closer, my thought
process was to pump water/algae to the centrifuge to separate the
algae into a bin, then gravity feed to a log press much like a log
splitter to press out remaining water and form the algae into a log.

You're lucky having a wooded piece a property, this bio-fuel
pre-processing part is for people like me who don't.

Ken, thanks for link.

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Mal,

You just can't throw chunks of wood or
branches into your pyrolizer, you'd have
to spend some energy cutting them into
size/shapes to maximize the surface area

Ok, I'm following you now.

I would suspect that even with solar,
you are going to have to spend time and
energy on "processing" your fuel.

Yes, the function I see for solar is to reduce the bio-fuel
requirements by around 60%, using coke as an baseline, 60% of the fuel
is used to heat the reaction chamber. Source: "The chemistry and
manufacture of hydrogen by Philip Litherland Teed"

So I'm thinking if the bio-fuel is first baked to carbon in a solar
furnace, then the solar furnace is used to generate steam and the
proper reaction temperature there would be a ~60% fuel reduction.

I'm beginning to think it might be far
more economical to just make bio-gas via
anaerobic processing and either use the
methane or just process it to seperate
the hydrogen...hell just using clean
methane to run a small generator to
hydrolyze water sounds better, plus you
get nice sludge to improve your soil.

I think methane is the way to go IF you're already raising livestock,
I can't make the numbers work electrolyzing water, maybe you can see
something there I didn't. Like everyone else I got started with algae
for oil, which was appealing not only for the oil but the remaining
bio-mass for garden compost.

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Harry,

"Firewood trees"
Here in Europe there are easily available GM trees intended for
"SRC" (Short Rotation Coppice). They grow seven or eight feet a year
when established. You get your first real crop after three years.
If you have low lying land they can be willows. Better drained
ground, use poplars. In the far North they are harvested like corn
when the ground is frozen (often bog land is used)
The information you are after is here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_rotation_coppice

Interesting article, I went there looking for yields: "A plantation
will yield from 8 to 18 tonnes of dry woodchip per hectare per year. A
plantation can be harvested for up to thirty years before needing to
be replanted."

Curbie

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

<dh4ce5tlqurr8r6hk92pbvosau3ns08p3t@4ax.
com>,

Mal,

Ok, I'm following you now.

Yes, the function I see for solar is to reduce the bio-fuel
requirements by around 60%, using coke as an baseline, 60% of the fuel
is used to heat the reaction chamber. Source: "The chemistry and
manufacture of hydrogen by Philip Litherland Teed"

After you factor in the cost of building
and maintaining your solar, is it going
to be economically viable?

So I'm thinking if the bio-fuel is first baked to carbon in a solar
furnace, then the solar furnace is used to generate steam and the
proper reaction temperature there would be a ~60% fuel reduction.

I think methane is the way to go IF you're already raising livestock,
I can't make the numbers work electrolyzing water, maybe you can see
something there I didn't. Like everyone else I got started with algae
for oil, which was appealing not only for the oil but the remaining
bio-mass for garden compost.

I've lost the original posts, but
couldn't you "grow" goats? Let them
harvest whatever they can, then use
their scat for fuel?

Otherwise I'd subscribe to the KISS
principle and go steam

 

[Ulysses]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:38:49 -0800, "Ulysses"

Ulysses,

I'm not quite sure; a solar steam process uses solar energy to produce
enough steam to drive every stroke of a steam engine, while the
bio-fuel process first uses solar energy to grow the fuel feed-stock,
and then uses only enough solar heat to drive the chemical process
that produces the fuel to drive every stroke of an engine. To my eye
there seems to be two different processes at work here.

I've run the numbers on steam, and have NOT run the numbers on
bio-fuel gasification that's what I'm up to now, in order the see
what's there.

Curbie

Please share your numbers with us. I'm leaning towards whichever option
will work.

 

[Curbie]

Please share your numbers with us. I'm leaning towards whichever option

will work.

Ulysses,

In my view alternative energies are generally dependant on the weather
and natural resources of someone's location (solar, wind, bio, hydro)
where z is taking advantage of rain in his location for hydro, that
solution probably won't cut it for you.

I think the best plan for you is take stock of what weather and
natural resources your location has and pick the best plan to utilize
them. If I remember correctly, your in a semi-arid climate with good
solar and a source of wood

STEAM:
If you're still considering steam, maybe one DIY parabolic trough and
a model steam engine mated to a bicycle light generator to test the
idea, this wouldn't produce usable power, also wouldn't cost too much.
This idea should give a feel for the issues involved and help estimate
costs of scaling the plan up to a useable level.

GASIFIER:
I would look at the free plans for DIY ideas, I think I posted the
links here, or go to http://www.gekgasifier.com/ for kits or parts, IF
you already have a large source of free wood for fuel, this maybe your
best return on investment, you can make some usable power while
testing. Gasifiers are a time proven DIY technology with well known
issues that with care are easily avoided; pay special attention to
filtering the bio-gas, because particulates in the gas are abrasive
and will seriously reduce engine life if not removed. This issue is
well understood and with care easily avoided.

Let me know if you narrow down your choices, and I'll try to detail a
plan which you're free to ignore if it doesn't suit your needs.

Curbie

 

[Curbie]

Morris,

There's a bunch of caveats, in my view there's an efficiency thief on
every corner ready to pick your energy pocket at every turn. But just
because I can't find a way to get home-scale solar-steam to work,
doesn't mean Ulysses or someone else is going to fail also.

I'm all for the effort and feel something is learned with each try.

Curbie