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Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?

You don't need to look at the code. Just write a program that runs in
Oye! I was right, you don't know what pre-emptive multitasking is......
Wikipedia is not the source of all knowledge.....
You can run MS-DOS apps, too, but that doesn't mean that NT contains
MS-DOS code.


I don't remember if I ever looked at compatibility stuff. I wasn't
much interested in emulation.

It is not emulated, it is OS/2 base code that runs native. You must be
aware of that.

As if bill gates would allow OS/2 emulation to be built into HIS
operating system <rolling eyes>

Gates and co. did NOT write NT from scratch. They based much of it on
the code developed at IBM for OS/2 when there was no mickysoft. Really,
anyone who was around at the time, or who bothers to check even for a
moment knows that. The only code any microsoft person ever wrote from
scratch was Bob....

OS/2 has no useful graphical interface? Thanks, I will remember that
one for a long time :)

www.ecomstation.com

Either way, have a nice day. No point in wasting bandwidth on the same
old stuff year after year. Doesn't really matter in the long run. Take
a shot back to make you feel even. No big thing..... <g>
 
W

w_tom

Does anybody really care? Not 'CHICAGO' White Sox who
will even play baseball at 2 o'clock in the morning.
 
M

Mxsmanic

Oye! I was right, you don't know what pre-emptive multitasking is......
Wikipedia is not the source of all knowledge.....

I don't see the connection.
It is not emulated, it is OS/2 base code that runs native. You must be
aware of that.

As I've said, I wasn't interested in compatibility stuff.
As if bill gates would allow OS/2 emulation to be built into HIS
operating system <rolling eyes>

Why not?
Gates and co. did NOT write NT from scratch. They based much of it on
the code developed at IBM for OS/2 when there was no mickysoft.

"Based"? What does that mean?
Really, anyone who was around at the time, or who bothers to check
even for a moment knows that.

Well, I _did_ check, and they _did_ write it from scratch. Of course
they adopted ideas that had been used in other various operating
systems, but every OS does that.
 
W

w_tom

Microsoft did not blackmail IBM into killing off OS/2. To
understand why IBM back then never wrote a single successful
software product for the PC, start at the source. 85% of all
problems are directly traceable to top management. And so in
1992, what computer is on the desks of IBM top management?
IBM XTs with CGA monitors. 1983 machines on Sept 1990 desks.
IBM management was so technically ignorant - so educated in
MBA school philosophies - that their own computers could not
execute new software sold in retail stores.

This is a company that will make a successful OS?

OS/2 was just another classic example of IBM management who
did not even write code. Names such as Cannavino and Akers
should be on your lips. These were bean counters who could
not recognize an innovation even if it bit them in the ass.
It is that technical ignorance that caused difficulty for
Microsoft to get IBM to endorse innovation - such as a
graphical interface. IBM in 1990 even insisted on writing new
OS code for the 1984 IBM AT - IBM management was that myopic.
Windows 3.0 arrived May 1990.

Managers who were technically naive caused an IBM /
Microsoft breakup. IBM was brainwashed into a mainframe
mentality - had no appreciation of the graphical interface
that was even making Apple so successful. IBM even called
their PC group the Entry Systems division because they viewed
the PC only as an extension of mainframes. Cannavino was even
declaring his division the most profitable when it was really
losing, in 1992, about $1billion per year.

The IBM Microsoft divorce, started Sept 1990, gave Microsoft
development of Windows and gave IBM the development of OS/2.
This separation was fully implemented by mid-1991. These were
the days of Windows 3.x. OS/2 did not work well was Jan
1992. OS/2 2.0 finally arrived in 1993 about the same time
that a first Windows NT was making an appearance. IOW
Windows NT was created completely independent of IBM and
contrary to what was posted.

After the parting, Microsoft started building two operating
systems. One was a preemptive multitasking OS that used a
graphical interface, worked superbly, and met the delivery
schedule. I was using NT without crashes before a completely
different OS named Windows 95 arrived. In fact NT engineers
had to transfer to the Windows 95 group because Win 95 was so
problematic.

NT worked just fine without crashing on my 486s in direct
contradiction to what was posted. In fact this PC is a 486-66
Mhz PC. Why? It uses Windows NT 4.0 that executes hardware
fast enough even ten years later. With Windows 9x, this 486
machine would have been scrapped long ago. That is how stable
NT was even back in 1994. But again, if discussing Windows,
then always state which one. Back then, two completely
different Windows OSes existed. Previous posts imply all
Windows OSes are same.

OS/2 could have been successful in mid 1980s. But a
multitasking text oriented Operating System released in the
1990s and written in assembly language was too little too late
- and an example of what happens when top management are bean
counters rather than come from where the work gets done.

IBM top management undermined OS/2 - especially its greatest
anti-innovators - John Akers and Jim Cannavino. Nobody would
write a new Operating System in assembly language. And yet
that is exactly what IBM managers did with OS/2.

Its a tribute to IBM engineers that they were able to make
OS/2 functional. But again, too little too late - or what
happens when top management does not come from where the work
gets done.

In 1992, OS/2 still was not doing a graphical interface
because even top IBM management did not understand the
concept. Worse, the first version did not yet do preemptive
multitasking correctly. Too little too late. Symptoms
directly traceable to inferior top management in IBM.

So how does this related to a CMOS date time clock that does
not keep good time AND predates all of this?
 
M

Mxsmanic

w_tom said:
IBM top management undermined OS/2 - especially its greatest
anti-innovators - John Akers and Jim Cannavino. Nobody would
write a new Operating System in assembly language. And yet
that is exactly what IBM managers did with OS/2.

Writing an OS in assembly language is not necessarily a bad decision.
OS code quality is a function of the people you hire to write the code
and the way you manage the project, not the programming language you
choose. Assembly language has the advantage of being extremely tight
and fast; but it's not very portable.

OS/2 died for reasons independent of being written in any particular
language, as you explain elsewhere.
 
Andy said:
Not an answer to your question, but if this is a problem for you and you
have a broadband or frequent dial-up connection, you can synchronise your
clock with a time server on the internet using a protocol called ntp.

That improves the accuracy of the reported time but not of the clocks
themselves.
 
M

Mxsmanic

That improves the accuracy of the reported time but not of the clocks
themselves.

It improves both. A good NTP server can hold your system clock to
within milliseconds of the correct time; with an accurate local
reference, it can do perhaps 100 times better. The hardware RTC in
your PC won't be any more accurate, but the actual time of date
returned by the system will. It works extremely well.
 
D

DBLEXPOSURE

JAD said:
Does anybody really 'know' what time it is?

Ask the Navy. If you do not know what time it is you do not know where you
are. So, does anybody really know where they are?
 
Mxsmanic said:
[email protected] writes:


It improves both. A good NTP server can hold your system clock to
within milliseconds of the correct time; with an accurate local
reference, it can do perhaps 100 times better. The hardware RTC in
your PC won't be any more accurate, but the actual time of date
returned by the system will. It works extremely well.

Unfortunately I need a solution for non-networked computers, and it
looks like I'll have to resort to hardware.
 
M

Mxsmanic

Unfortunately I need a solution for non-networked computers, and it
looks like I'll have to resort to hardware.

Without a network you need hardware. However, you can purchase an
inexpensive, radio-controlled clock that connects to the serial port
on your machine and then use NTP to sychronize to that, with excellent
results.
 
B

BillW50

Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:25:47 -0400
Microsoft did not blackmail IBM into killing off OS/2...

Actually it was the other way around. As IBM black mailed into writing
OS/2. And IBM's master plan was to get everyone off of MS-DOS and on to
OS/2. Then IBM would have OS/2 changed to run on only true IBM PCs. Thus
killing off the clone market and MS as well. This was all documented and
shown on PBS.

______________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within Word 2000
 
B

BillW50

Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:42:43 +0200
OS/2 is dead and gone, and although it was superior in design to the
old versions of Windows, it was not superior to NT.

Supposedly better in design, but OS/2 sucked in real life for many of
us! As only one OS/2 Win session had sound while the others was
soundless. And a good number of Windows applications would routinely
crashed under OS/2, but stable as a rock under Windows 3.1. Then the
OS/2 GUI was unstable for at least a couple of years and crashed the
whole system. Then the FixPaks often caused more problems than they
fixed. IBM programmers are morons!

______________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within Word 2000
 
B

BillW50

Date: 28 Oct 2005 13:35:00 -0700
Hardly dead,

You mean hardly useful! And IBM dropped support a few months before they
were saying they would never drop OS/2 support. IBM has never done
anything except lie to me over and over again.
and oh by the way, NT was built on early OS/2 code. NT and 2000 had
plenty of OS/2 code in their kernel, and can even run text mode
OS/2 apps. If you had seen the code...... you would know that.

I did a search through OS/2 files for the Microsoft copyright in Warp a
few years ago. And Warp was littered everywhere with Microsoft's code
throughout OS/2.

______________________________________________
Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 2000)
-- written and edited within Word 2000
 
A

Anthony Fremont

BillW50 said:
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:42:43 +0200



Supposedly better in design, but OS/2 sucked in real life for many of
us! As only one OS/2 Win session had sound while the others was
soundless. And a good number of Windows applications would routinely
crashed under OS/2, but stable as a rock under Windows 3.1. Then the
OS/2 GUI was unstable for at least a couple of years and crashed the
whole system. Then the FixPaks often caused more problems than they
fixed. IBM programmers are morons!

Am I the only guy that was working with this crap back then? IBM
contracted with M$ to write OS/2 for them in like 1987. M$ drug their
feet on the release, while spending IBM's money, so that they could get
Win 3.0 out before OS/2, by saying that OS/2 just wasn't stable enough
for release yet. Yeah, no conflict of interest their. Finally IBM got
fed up and took the project away from M$. There are very many
suspicious similarities in "bugs" within the graphics system calls of
Win 3.0 and OS/2.
 
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