Which phase is my electrik socket on?

[krw]

One test would be to simply hook 'em up and see if they "talk" to each
other. Doesn't get much more simple than that.

DimBulb, you're a dumb shit and wrong, as always. He doesn't want to
buy them until he's sure they'll work. There is no such assurance,
but he's been given answers to his question, no thanks to you.

 

[Rich.]

Sigh. If you connect the red & black to the same phase for a 240
volt load, it gets zero volts.

Like the original poster, I was talking about 120 volt circuits and then
expanded upon your answer to clarify when a 3-wire is is used as the homerun
to the panel. A 240 volt load has nothing to do with it. With a 3-wire
homerun, the black and red have to be on opposite phases in order to have
the neutral carry the unbalanced load. If the breakers for the black and red
were on the same phase, then the neutral could end up carrying the full load
of both circuits and burn up. So because of potential 3-wire homeruns, one
cannot simply swap breakers that are next to each other without knowing if
it can be safely done.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Like the original poster, I was talking about 120 volt circuits and then
expanded upon your answer to clarify when a 3-wire is is used as the homerun
to the panel. A 240 volt load has nothing to do with it. With a 3-wire
homerun, the black and red have to be on opposite phases in order to have
the neutral carry the unbalanced load. If the breakers for the black and red
were on the same phase, then the neutral could end up carrying the full load
of both circuits and burn up. So because of potential 3-wire homeruns, one
cannot simply swap breakers that are next to each other without knowing if
it can be safely done.

Precisely correct.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Simple until the thermostat opens and disconnects that 240V baseboard heater
through which they were talking.

Any dope that uses electric to heat his space(s) with in this day and
age deserves all the problems that world can hand to him.

 

[James Sweet]

I already know they are NOT on the same fused circuit. I just don't know
if they are still on the same phase or not.

Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
phase each is on just by looking at the panel.

 

[James Sweet]

Like the original poster, I was talking about 120 volt circuits and then
expanded upon your answer to clarify when a 3-wire is is used as the
homerun to the panel. A 240 volt load has nothing to do with it. With a
3-wire homerun, the black and red have to be on opposite phases in order
to have the neutral carry the unbalanced load. If the breakers for the
black and red were on the same phase, then the neutral could end up
carrying the full load of both circuits and burn up. So because of
potential 3-wire homeruns, one cannot simply swap breakers that are next
to each other without knowing if it can be safely done.

I hadn't thought of those, I've seen it done once, but I don't
particularly care for the idea. Personally I always use standard 2
conductor cable so each 120V circuit gets its own neutral.

 

[Hope for the Heartless]

pull a fuse or switch a breaker and test each outlet, you will then know
which ones are on the same circuit.

Multiple circuits are usually on the same phase. What you want to do is
get a circuit tester and string it from the hot line of one to the hot
line of the other. If there's enough differential voltage to light the
tester, they're on different phases. If there's not, they're on the
same phase, but perhaps not the same circuit.

Or you could use a voltmeter. The voltage between different phases in a
house is 240 volts or so. The voltage between different outlets on the
same phase is a lot less than 120V. In a building with 3-phase power,
you will see either about 240 or 208 between phases. Again, if it's a
lot less, it's the same phase.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Multiple circuits are usually on the same phase.

Jeez, you really are clueless.

Try not to say shit that will endanger folks with your fucked in the
electrical knowledge. At least you didn't do that... yet.

 

[Cameo]

Well when you know what fuse/breaker each is on, then you know which
phase each is on just by looking at the panel.

OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
them on the following links.

These are the breakers:

<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>

The circuit breakers I am interested in are the blue ones on the left
and the one immediately above them, labelled "Foyer, etc." For some
reason it's 30A, while the blue ones below are 15A. I'd like to be sure
that the "Foyer" breaker is on the same phase as the 2nd from the
bottom, labelled "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights." I'd rather not call en expensive
electrician to install a bridge capacitor or whatever.

The following link shows some info about the breaker panel and it's
pasted inside of the panel door:

<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMGN3N3Rrcmcz&hl=en>

I hope it can help you experts to answer my original question so I don't
end up with a useless HomePlug kit.

 

[Cameo]

Simple until the thermostat opens and disconnects that 240V baseboard
heater
through which they were talking.

Paul, I'm not sure how all this connects to my original question but
it's a pleasant surprise to see your name pop up after all these years
since I saw it last time at Lazy B's internal news groups. I guess you
left it, too. It was fun till it lasted, huh?

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
them on the following links.

These are the breakers:

<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>

The color coding tells me that one side is one phase, and the other is
the other phase.

I am guessing due to never having seen such a configuration, but I am
betting that the entire left side is one phase, and the entire right side
is the other phase.

 

[Rich.]

<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>

The circuit breakers I am interested in are the blue ones on the left and
the one immediately above them, labelled "Foyer, etc." For some reason
it's 30A, while the blue ones below are 15A. I'd like to be sure that the
"Foyer" breaker is on the same phase as the 2nd from the bottom, labelled
"Kitch/Fam Rm Lights."

They are not on the same phases. The "Foyer" breaker is on the "A" phase
while the "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights" breaker is on the "B" phase. What might be
confusing you is those blue breakers are mini breakers. They are nothing
more than two 1/2" tall breakers bound together to fit into one 1" tall
breaker slot. Each 1" tall breaker slot is on a phase. The first left/right
pair starting at the top is on the "A" side, the second left/right pair is
on the "B" side, the third left/right pair is on the "A" side, the forth
left/right pair is on the "B" side, etc.

 

[Rich.]

They are not on the same phases. The "Foyer" breaker is on the "A" phase
while the "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights" breaker is on the "B" phase. What might be
confusing you is those blue breakers are mini breakers. They are nothing
more than two 1/2" tall breakers bound together to fit into one 1" tall
breaker slot. Each 1" tall breaker slot is on a phase. The first
left/right pair starting at the top is on the "A" side, the second
left/right pair is on the "B" side, the third left/right pair is on the
"A" side, the forth left/right pair is on the "B" side, etc.

Um sorry I make a mistake in identifying the "A" and "B" phases. Everything
I wrote is correct except that you'll need to swap every "A" with a "B" and
vice-versa.

 

[krw]

The color coding tells me that one side is one phase, and the other is
the other phase.

You mean the blue 15A double-breakers and the red 20A double-breakers,
AlwaysWrong? Wrong again, as always. What a dufus.

I am guessing due to never having seen such a configuration, but I am
betting that the entire left side is one phase, and the entire right side
is the other phase.

What an ignorant ass, you are, AlwaysWrong. The oven and the drier
are going to work *real* well on zero volts. No 240V circuits could
be used in the box if you were right. As always, you're wrong.

 

[Cameo]

Um sorry I make a mistake in identifying the "A" and "B" phases.
Everything I wrote is correct except that you'll need to swap every
"A" with a "B" and vice-versa.

Oh, shoot! There goes my HomePlug idea unless I really want to call an
electrician. But that in itself would probably cost more than a good
HomePlug kit. Anyway, thanks for the reply.

 

[James Sweet]

OK, I made a couple of pics of the breaker panel and I hope you can view
them on the following links.

These are the breakers:

<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMmR4ZjVqNWo2&hl=en>


The circuit breakers I am interested in are the blue ones on the left
and the one immediately above them, labelled "Foyer, etc." For some
reason it's 30A, while the blue ones below are 15A. I'd like to be sure
that the "Foyer" breaker is on the same phase as the 2nd from the
bottom, labelled "Kitch/Fam Rm Lights." I'd rather not call en expensive
electrician to install a bridge capacitor or whatever.

The following link shows some info about the breaker panel and it's
pasted inside of the panel door:

<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AR41cGCzYT76ZGZnaDk2NjJfMGN3N3Rrcmcz&hl=en>


I hope it can help you experts to answer my original question so I don't
end up with a useless HomePlug kit.

The legs/phases/buses in the panel are interleaved, so the first slot is
leg A, the next one down is leg B, the one below that is leg A, and
below that B, and so on. The blue breakers are doubles, so each pair of
those is a slot. In your case the garage light is on the same phase as
the kitchen lights

 

[Cameo]

The X-10 folks sell a bridge you can put across the phases that will
pass the high frequency PLC signals across to the other phase. It is
basically just a capacitor but it is in a U/L listed package.

It just occured to me that X-10 and HomePlug frequencies are quite
different and I wonder if that X-10 bridge would even work for HomePlug.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

You mean the blue 15A double-breakers and the red 20A double-breakers,
AlwaysWrong? Wrong again, as always. What a dufus.


What an ignorant ass, you are, AlwaysWrong. The oven and the drier
are going to work *real* well on zero volts. No 240V circuits could
be used in the box if you were right. As always, you're wrong.

I was not referring to ANY of the 240 volt service breakers, you
retarded twit. Obviously.

I also said that I was unfamiliar with it and that I was making an
assumption.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

The legs/phases/buses in the panel are interleaved, so the first slot is
leg A, the next one down is leg B, the one below that is leg A, and
below that B, and so on. The blue breakers are doubles, so each pair of
those is a slot. In your case the garage light is on the same phase as
the kitchen lights

Best description yet. That "left, right, left" crap was too confusing.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

It just occured to me that X-10 and HomePlug frequencies are quite
different and I wonder if that X-10 bridge would even work for HomePlug.

It passes HF from one phase to the other, so there is no reason it
wouldn't.

It is high pass filter, so there would be no limit imposed, so there
should be no reason it wouldn't work.