Where to buy LED flashlights in New York City?

[Anthony Fremont]

I have seen some UV LED flashlights. To me, these are a sort of novelty.
But, what would be the practical use for a UV LED type flashlight? I found
the power level to also be very low.

Checking "invisible" stamps (cover charge paid or over/under 21) at
night clubs for example. Also useful for illuminating the strip in
American paper money. No lap-dancing stripper should be without one.
;-)

 

[Dave VanHorn]

The problem with Inova is they use a much more expensive lithium
battery.
See URL http://www.inovalight.com/site.html?X5-ov

I pay less than $2 per cell on Ebay.

 

[Ken Weitzel]

I can appreciate that, within certain limits, the CRI of the lightsource
doesn't matter in a scanner since it is always the same lightsource and can
be compensated for.
In a camera how does it know that the lightsource is a led, what type of
led, and how does it compensate for what is a very poor CRI.
Or are (most of) the cameras users just not bothered?

Hi...

Those new scanners (I don't have one yet) have 3 seperate
light sources.... one R, one G, and one B, so that the
light source can be made any temp you might want.

In the case of the cameras, the entry level ones just
default to a bright sunny day and leave it up to you
to compensate with post processing.

The mid levels have a few pre-determined choices,
like sunny, cloudy, incandescent, flourescent, etc
from which you may choose.

The top of the line cameras allow you to use
an 18% gray card to set with.

Take care.

Ken

 

[jakdedert]

in message

That's the main advantage of LEDs, they last longer. And they don't
change to yellowish amber light when the batteries get weak.

It's the 'main' advantage, yes; but not the only one by any means. Drop
your maglite when it's turned on and see what happens...or take two
maglites, turn one on for an hour or so. Then replace the cells and compare
the light output with a brand-new maglite. The bulbs silver up pretty
quickly, diminishing the output appreciably.

The only way to get full output from a mini mag is to have new cells, a
brand new bulb, and a well-polished reflector (and be careful not to drop
it)...none of which are requirements for a decent LED flashlight.

jak

 

[[email protected]]

Checking "invisible" stamps (cover charge paid or over/under 21) at
night clubs for example. Also useful for illuminating the strip in
American paper money. No lap-dancing stripper should be without one.
;-)

Speaking of strippers... Forensics people use UV lights to look for
'male bodily fluids'. Cat urine also shows up under UV.

I have seen pens on eBay whose ink only shows up under UV. Suggested
uses were marking items sent in for repair to ensure you got the same
unit back. Marking properly so it could later be identified (thief
wouldn't see markings). Lots of other uses I can think of, too.


-Chris

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Comments below:

I agree on some points, disagree on others. The lifetime of the LED is
much greater, saving bulb replacement. But the Luxeon Star takes 350
mA, and it will eat up batteries just as fast as a regular bulb. You
say 4 to 7 times longer, but it may be a lot less than that. And it's
$40, which is much more than a good maglite costs.

Well the EverLED also has regulation built in as well. On the
larger D cell maglites It can go for well over 20 hours before
starting to really dim. This is because it's using more of the
battery. A regular bulb will show much more dimming prior to that
even with more life left in the batteries. "dead" batteries with
a regular bulb can be put into a light with the everled and they
can then still produce significant light.

You're right though, it's a bit more than just the LED. The
EverLED only needs 1.5volts (a single cell) to light but can be
used in a 6 cell (9 volt) flashlight. Try putting a 6 cell bulb
into a 1 cell flashlight and with a fresh battery it still will
not be real usable.

BTW, I was also not sure if it was a Luxeon Star or one of
LumiLED's other products being used in the EverLED.

The sacrifice many small flashlights make is they use lithium batteris,
which are smaller and lighter than alkalines, but cost more per wat of
power. So if you're a heavy user, you will pay much more. The cheapest
is to get rechargeable C or D cells, and carry a spare charged set. I
haven't yet seen a drop-in rechargeable replacement for a lithium cell
such as the CR-123.

Yes, this is true, but using the CR-123 with LED technology can
help some. Also, Lithiums do NOT have the problem of alkalines or
any rechargables when used in freezing temperatures.

Even with rechargable batteries though, you'll need to change
them 4-7 times where some LEDs will only need it once. Also, with
the small CR-123 type lights and their high intensity outputs
aren't always useful. You can have too much light. That's why
things like the ARC4+ are intrguing since they can be turned way
down if desired. Although you only get about 30 minutes at top
intensity, it can be extended to over 20 hours on the lower settings.

I have both, right in my hand, and I don't believe what you're saying.
The Arc AAA is only a single LED, the AA cell mini maglite has much more
light output.

I do stand corrected. You are absolutely right in that a fresh AA
minimag with a new unsilvered bulb IS brighter than the ARC AAA
at first. But if you turn them both on and leave them on for,
say, 3 hours or more it won't be. The usable light from the
minimag is gone and you'll have a few more hours of usable light
from the ARC. If you leave the minimag on when it's batteries are
run down, this is one of the things that accelerates the
silvering of the bulb so if you leave both on for, say 10 hours
continues, the ARC will need a single new AAA battery whereas the
mag will need two new AA's and a new bulb if it's to work as well
as it did 10 hours earlier.

However, the light from the ARC is whiter and more even than the
minimag at any setting. In general, I PERSONALLY have found that
the overall performance of the ARC over the minimag has resulted
in my minimag being left unused a lot of the time. YMMV

I shouldn't have misrepresented the total output of the AA
minimag that way though. Thanks for correcting me.

That's the main advantage of LEDs, they last longer. And they don't
change to yellowish amber light when the batteries get weak.

Yes, in part. Also though is the fact that as the batteries wear
out and their Voltage drops, the usable light from the
incandescent drops much faster. For example, I had a nearly
"dead" battery in a Maglite Solitare (the single AAA version).
The mag would only barely glow. I take that battery and put it
into my ARC AAA and it lites up as bright as with a new battery.
I was able to get another couple hours of light out of the
maglite's "dead" battery. And the output of the Solitare when
fresh with new batterys and bulb is about the same as the ARC
(although I prefer the evenness and color of the ARC for reading).

LEDs can not only draw a battery down slower for a given light
output, that can be made to draw them down FURTHER using up more
of the battery before it needs to be disposed of.

LED discussion groups at:

Yeah, hearsay, that's what I call much of your information. :-O

I have a 3Dmaglite with an EverLED, a minmag, a mag solitare, and
an ARC AAA as well as a handlful of other incandescents. I've
experimented a lot and have done my share of research on these.
With the exception of the output mistake that I made and that you
corrected for me, I wouldn't really call it hearsay. However,
there certainly is a lot of it out there.

Again, although I'm not an active member of the forums, I would
encourage anyone interested in these topics to explore the URL:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com

There are some guys there that are very much into the hobby who
are using some very decent methods of doing comparisons on issues
such as these. Check out the reviews forum at:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16

There are some interesting collectings of output vs throw and
runtime plots for many different flashlights.

- Jeff

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

I pay less than $2 per cell on Ebay.

Check out Surefire's website (www.surefire.com). You can get them
there by the box for as low as $1.25 each.

- Jeff

 

[Don Klipstein]

LED flashlights seem to be getting more popular these days. There are
numerous websites that sell them, of different types and sizes.

But here in New York City, I have yet to find a retail store that
sells them. Radio Shack, for example, sells actual LEDs if you want to
make your own, but they don't seem to sell ready-made LED flashlights.

Does anyone know of some retail stores in the New York City area that
sell LED flashlights?

I can say for Philadelphia, especially its suburbs:

Target sells a few LED models by Dorcy.

Sears and a few hardware stores have a Dorcy LED model or two.

The availability gets much better with mail-order and web retailers such
as Brookstone.

I have seen a couple LED "keychain lights" at K-Mart and Rite Aid.

Please check out a major LED, LED product, and LED flashlight review
site - http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/ledleft.htm

This site mentions dozens of LED flashlights and where to get most of
them - mostly other than stores that you can walk into.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected], http://www.misty.com/~don/ledx.html)

 

[Don Klipstein]

I have seen them in some of the serious type camping stores. Here in
Montreal, I have seen a few types in the Radio Shack stores. Apparently, I
am told that they are not yet selling as well as the conventional type. I am
told that one of the disadvantages are, is that they are still not as bright
as the light bulb type.

Ones as bright as conventional ones can be made and are available, but
they cost more.

I have a darker suspicion: Many retail-available flashlight brands
(Mag is a notable exception) are brands of battery manufacturers. Many
retailers sell batteries. And when batteries weaken, an incandescent bulb
greatly loses efficiency while LEDs tend to have much lesser to sometimes
no loss of efficiency from being underpowered. LEDs will give you enough
light to see by from batteries too weak to make an incandescent flashlight
bulb outshine a cigarette. Also, when batteries get weak incandescent
bulbs have less resistance (continue to drain the batteries heavily)
while LEDs have increased resistance (effectively go into "energy
conservation mode"). And the manufacturers and retailers that are
reluctant to sell LED flashlights make a lot more money from selling
batteries than from selling flashlights.
Note that the somewhat common Eveready LED light takes batteries of a
size that I don't see their conventional flashlights using.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected], http://www.misty.com/~don/ledx.html)

 

[Don Klipstein]

Hi Bob,

I am going to shop around again, if this is the case. A few months back, I
was not as impressed as with a conventional lamp.

I was reading an article about a year ago, that was explaining that in a few
more years, we will be able to have our homes lit on LED technology.

I think that was optimistic. LEDs have only advanced about half as fast
as computers have throughout the past few decades. I expect that a decade
from now, fluorescents will be more economical than LEDs for general room
lighting.

I am now seeing more and more new models of automobiles using LEDs for the
rear lights.

It is easier for colored LEDs to outperform colored lights with
incandescent lamps than to have white LEDs outperform uncolored
incandescent lamps. LEDs are normally good at being specialists at
producing light of one particular color or another, while making colored
light from an incandescent requires having a filter that blocks some of
the light.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected], http://www.misty.com/~don/ledx.html)

 

[Don Klipstein]

WalMart, at least here in Canada, even offers them as
replacement auto bulbs - plug in replacements for
brake lights, back up, turn signals, etc. A little
pricey, but probably reasonable pay back when you
toss in the safety factor of no burnt out brake lights,
etc.

BEWARE - they probably do not produce the required amount of light, and
especially probably do not produce the required amount of light into every
direction/angle at which a legal requirement is specified.

Even at auto parts stores such as Pep Boys, I see on display for sale
bulbs that are obviously illegal. The more honest of the illegal
fashionable bulbs/lamps/lights have disclaimers along the lines of:

* "Check local laws before using" (usually means unlawful for use on all
public roads under any municipal and/or county and/or state
jurisdiction of most to all of the 50 US "states").

* "For off-road use only" (illegal to use or maybe even have operational
on your vehicle while your vehicle is on a public road anywhere or at
least in most locations of the USA)

In my state, "off-road" lights on street-legal vehicles must be either
(maybe both) be covered or otherwise rendered unusable in a way that
requires someone to be outside the vehicle to restore usability, in
addition to requiring being disconnected and not just by a switch within
reach of a seated vehicle occupant (I heard that plugs and jacks are OK,
possibly even if in the reach of a driver in the driver's seat, but this
is hearsay).

* "Racing" - as in legal on a race track but not on a public road. Ever
notice that real race cars lack "racing lights"?

As for safety - in my experience, most cars have redundant bulbs for
brake and backup and tail lights and rear turn signal lights.
The "Driver Manual" for my state recommends frequent checking that one's
car has all bulbs working and to immediately replace any that are not
working. I have heard that in my state and in a neighboring one, a burnt
out bulb having a legally required function can get you a ticket that can
be negated by having the bulb replaced by a professional mechanic
giving you a receipt within 24 hours after the time on the ticket.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Don Klipstein]

I would have thought that the CRI of white leds is so poor that they would
be of little use in photography - or do the cameras do something clever when
using these light sources?

The usual white LEDs have CRI anywhere from 75 to 85, much better than
the much-maligned and traditional, stil somewhat popular "Cool White"
fluorescents that typically rate a 62.

Also note that digital cameras largely avoid a problem that most films
have with most non-daylight non-incandescent non-xenon white light: Many
white light sources (other than incandescent and xenon) are to some extent
or another optimized for human eyeballs, which do not see the various
wavelengths of red visible light as equally as most films do. So a lot of
white artifical light sources look less red to film than to human vision.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected], http://www.misty.com/~don/dschtech.html)

 

[Don Klipstein]

Some, or perhaps now most, of the top of the line scanners
use them for a light source in place of those short lived
cold cathode flourescents...

Cold cathode fluorescent is actually a longlife technology. Also there
is no significant life expectancy penalty for frequent starts. These
things outlast hot cathode fluorescents!
The compromise of cold cathode fluorescents is that they are a little
less efficient than hot cathode fluorescents, along with some efficiency
compromise from having their diameter usually smaller than optimum for
maximum efficiency from fluorescents.

NOTE - smaller diameter raises the voltage drop, which mitigates the
efficiency-reducing factors of short lamp length and/or high "cathode
fall" (as in "cold cathode").

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Watson A.Name \Watt Sun - the Dark Remover\]

Jeff Wiseman wrote:

[snip]

I do stand corrected. You are absolutely right in that a fresh AA
minimag with a new unsilvered bulb IS brighter than the ARC AAA at
first. But if you turn them both on and leave them on for, say, 3
hours or more it won't be. The usable light from the minimag is gone
and you'll have a few more hours of usable light from the ARC. If you
leave the minimag on when it's batteries are run down, this is one
of the things that accelerates the silvering of the bulb so if you
leave both on for, say 10 hours continues, the ARC will need a single
new AAA battery whereas the mag will need two new AA's and a new bulb
if it's to work as well as it did 10 hours earlier.

However, the light from the ARC is whiter and more even than the
minimag at any setting. In general, I PERSONALLY have found that the
overall performance of the ARC over the minimag has resulted in my
minimag being left unused a lot of the time. YMMV

I shouldn't have misrepresented the total output of the AA minimag
that way though. Thanks for correcting me.


Yes, in part. Also though is the fact that as the batteries wear out
and their Voltage drops, the usable light from the incandescent drops
much faster. For example, I had a nearly "dead" battery in a Maglite
Solitare (the single AAA version). The mag would only barely glow. I
take that battery and put it into my ARC AAA and it lites up as
bright as with a new battery.

Again, I don't believe you one bit. Ya know, if you continue to distort
the truth, your believability will be seriously compromised. Like my
mother used to say, "I told you a million times not to exaggerate!"

I was able to get another couple hours of light out of the maglite's
"dead" battery. And the output of the Solitare when fresh with new
batterys and bulb is about the same as the ARC (although I prefer the
evenness and color of the ARC for reading).

LEDs can not only draw a battery down slower for a given light
output, that can be made to draw them down FURTHER using up more of
the battery before it needs to be disposed of.

But the LED does not put out the same amount of light at lower battery
voltages, as you seem to imply. This is a given, and of course there is
a point where the LED's output is no longer adequate. Just for grins,
I've put old batteries into both my ARC AAA and into my Dorcy single AAA
cell flashlight, and let them run down the battery. When the voltage is
so low, the light output is seriously reduced. Try it yourself.

I built a few of the circuits shown here
http://elm-chan.org/works/led1/report_e.html
except I didn't use the D1 diode or C1, I used the LED itself as the
diode. It's a very simple circuit. These depend a lot on the
transistor's gain and low Vce(sat). I've had one that barely worked at
..55V, but that's not realistic because the light is barely visible. At
..8V it puts out somewhat more light but nowhere near what it puts out
with a fresh cell. So I can "run down" a supposedly dead AA or AAA cell
with this circuit, but the light output is much less than adequate at
low voltages.

As for CPF, I find that most of what they are doing involves using the
Maxim or LT chips, and they seem to be stuck on using the CR-123 lithium
cells. Well, that's not the most economical, and I'm one who, like you,
would rather run down some AA cells. They're on sale for 25 cents or
less (alkalines), and you can't beat them for economy. See
www.cheapbatteries.com for some real cheap batteries.

 

[Watson A.Name \Watt Sun - the Dark Remover\]

I pay less than $2 per cell on Ebay.

Same for www.cheapbatteries.com. But you can get AA alkaline cells for
a lot cheaper, a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\]

[snip]

There are some VERY bright LED flashlights available, at appreciably higher
prices than the "keyhole" lights. Technology Associates http://www.techass.com
has a broad selection of lights, including a drop-in replacement for the bulb in
the MiniMag lights.
Can't report on how bright they really are (yet), the one I ordered will be
delivered next week ;-)

I think I like my Opalec Newbeam better. I bought a pair of Opalec
Newbeams last year and I've been using them regularly since. They have
three LEDs instead of just one, but are more expensive ($27). These
only fit later models of the Mini Maglite - check out their website.

http://www.opalec.com/products.html
New lower price, see http://www.pocketlights.com/opalec.asp

 

[Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\]

Hi Bob,

I am going to shop around again, if this is the case. A few months back, I
was not as impressed as with a conventional lamp.

I was reading an article about a year ago, that was explaining that in a few
more years, we will be able to have our homes lit on LED technology.

I am now seeing more and more new models of automobiles using LEDs for the
rear lights.

What puzzles me is that far fewer auto makers have replaced
incandescents than have truck and bus makers. It seems as tho almost
all buses and trucks have LEDs in their taillights, but few later model
autos do. I know the new Toyota Prius has some LEDs, but not all, in
the taillights.

Maybe trucks and autos use them because of the reliability and low
maintenance. Auto makers probably don't because they're not as cheap as
incandescents.

 

[Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\]

I pay less than $2 per cell on Ebay.

Most people don't shop on Ebay, they buy their batteries at the grocery
store or worse yet, Radio Scrap. And they're _not_ cheap there!

 

[Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\]

Dave VanHorn wrote:

Check out Surefire's website (www.surefire.com). You can get them
there by the box for as low as $1.25 each.

I can buy a brick of AA alkalines for $.25 - $.30 each not on sale, and
even less when they're on sale. Hard to beat that for inexpensive
batteries, and everything seems to use AA cells.

What's bothering me is that very few flashlight makers have progressed
to designing their lights to use rechargeable cells. If more AA cell
sized flashlights would be designed to use Ni-MH cells, the world would
have a lot less batteries to trash, recycle, etc.

 

[Dave VanHorn]

Most people don't shop on Ebay, they buy their batteries at the grocery
store or worse yet, Radio Scrap. And they're _not_ cheap there!

Half the people you meet are below average intelligence.