Using electric field to thin fuel

[The Doctor]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

 

[the_dawggie]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

Hasn't this (similar) been done to death before?

 

[Dan----]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

A bottle of snake oil ?

 

[George W Frost]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

Hasn't this (similar) been done to death before?

--
Kipland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


A design was made years ago for this, although it wasn't an electric charged
type
Think they used magnets to re-arrange the molecular structure of the fuel.

Something like Peter Brocks magic box

 

[TPr]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

Because its bullshit?

 

[Mr.T]

It has been done before and will be done again.

As long as there are gullible people with money anyway. You can more easily
"thin the fuel" by simply routing the fuel line closer to the exhaust
manifold anyway (not that it will improve economy though, unless possibly
the car was running too rich to start with, only if modern electronic fuel
injection and EG sensors are not in use)
However the fire risk may increase though

Here is a basic test to apply to any device like this that you see
advertised. "If a simple device like this could deliver even a 5% increase
in fuel economy don't you think GM, Ford, Toyota etc would snap it up and
put it on their vehicles?"

Hell a 1% *genuine* increase in fuel economy would be enough. But they have
proper test benches to accurately measure fuel consumption at all load
levels, something the snake oilers never bother with.

Or wouldn't you at least to expect to see it in F1 racing?

Peter Brock used it on his car didn't he

MrT.

 

[John_H]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

It would seem that academia will resort to anything for the sake of
publicity these days!... You'd also have to wonder what effect money
might have on their "principles".

Perhaps John McCain will fix it! ;-)

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

The following article refers to two sets of tests, one by the
researchers, the other by an Italian diesel engine manufacturer:

"Electrorheology Leads to Efficient Combustion"

R. Tao,* K. Huang, H. Tang, and D. Bell
Department of Physics, Temple University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
19122

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/enfuem/asap/html/ef8004898.html

This is a more technical article on rheology by the same researchers.
It is aimed at reducing the viscosity of crude oil for transportation
via pipelines:

"Reducing the Viscosity of Crude Oil by Pulsed Electric or Magnetic
Field"
http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/enfuem/2006/20/i05/html/ef060072x.html

This is a Wikipedia article on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrorheological_fluid

I notice that Tao's group has used a diesel Mercedes-Benz as their
test subject. Why not a petrol engined Chevrolet sedan? It seems to me
that the planet-saving potential of his magic device would be
maximised in the consumer car market.

The news article states that ...

"Temple [University] has applied for a patent on this technology,
which has been licensed to California-based Save The World Air Inc.,
an environmentally conscientious enterprise focused on the design,
development, and commercialization of revolutionary technologies
targeted at reducing emissions from internal combustion engines."

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Franc Zabkar]

It has been done before and will be done again. It is all bullshit.

That was my first impression, and I'm still very skeptical, but the
researchers appear to have some independent test results that support
their claims, at least in respect of diesel engines.

Here is a basic test to apply to any device like this that you see
advertised. "If a simple device like this could deliver even a 5% increase
in fuel economy don't you think GM, Ford, Toyota etc would snap it up and
put it on their vehicles?"

The researchers claim that one Italian diesel engine manufacturer has
tested the device and obtained a 5% improvement on the dyno.

These guys spend Billions on more fuel
efficient vehicles and you really think some nut case in a back room can do
a better job?

The researchers are physicists based at a university.

Or wouldn't you at least to expect to see it in F1 racing?

It couldn't even be tested without serious modification. The
researchers found that at 1900 RPM the optimum electric field was
1kV/mm, and the minimum time required for the fluid to be subjected to
the field was 5 seconds. The fuel flow under racing conditions would
be an order of magnitude greater, which would mean that the device
would need to be much longer. Of course you could have one small
device per cylinder ...

Cheers TT

- Franc Zabkar

 

[terryc]

That was my first impression, and I'm still very skeptical, but the
researchers appear to have some independent test results that support
their claims, at least in respect of diesel engines.

Yep, I've got an engineer mate who served as a ships engineer and he tells
the story of getting some thin (compared to the tar they had) russian
diesel fuel for the ship and "the old girl practically flew all the way
home"

The researchers claim that one Italian diesel engine manufacturer has
tested the device and obtained a 5% improvement on the dyno.

All the scamsters say that same sort of stuff.
Did they list the reference and did it check out?
Or is this "trust me, would I lie to you" all over again?

 

[the_dawggie]

**In very cold conditions, decreasing the viscosity of Diesel makes sense..
It has been done before. These guys:

http://www.tycothermal.com/australia/english/specialty_heating/

Have some excellent products. Formerly Raychem.

Well 'lux turbo diesel made it to North Pole.

 

[Mr.T]

This is a more technical article on rheology by the same researchers.
It is aimed at reducing the viscosity of crude oil for transportation
via pipelines:

Reducing the Viscosity of Crude Oil by Pulsed Electric or Magnetic
Field"
http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/enfuem/2006/20/i05/html/ef060072x.ht

ml


Which is obviously a more appropriate use, since there is no evidence
tendered that reducing the viscosity of the fuel actually leads to increased
efficiency when used in a properly tuned car engine in the first place.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

It couldn't even be tested without serious modification. The
researchers found that at 1900 RPM the optimum electric field was
1kV/mm, and the minimum time required for the fluid to be subjected to
the field was 5 seconds. The fuel flow under racing conditions would
be an order of magnitude greater, which would mean that the device
would need to be much longer. Of course you could have one small
device per cylinder ...

Actually they say the effect lasts for a couple of hours, so could obviously
be done in the fueling rig before it even goes into the racing car. Therfore
no weight penalty, or other problems.

MrT.

 

[Mr.T]

Well 'lux turbo diesel made it to North Pole.

I'll bet they used a fuel additive though!
(Commonly added to diesel in all extremely cold climates.)

MrT.

 

[Bernd Felsche]

I'll bet they used a fuel additive though!
(Commonly added to diesel in all extremely cold climates.)

That'd be called "petrol".

 

[Eeyore]

Wonder why no one has thought of this before!

http://www.temple.edu/newsroom/2008_2009/09/stories/taofueldevice.htm

Because only fuckwits would believe in it ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Applying for a patent does not necessarily mean the thing works.

Nor does having one granted ,esp by the USPTO who are only interested in your
money.

I fully expect MOST patents in the USA are TOTALLY worthless.

Graham

 

[Bob Parker]

BTW Harley's are the most efficient engines at turning petrol into noise
without the side effect of horsepower ;-)

Ah-hah ... That's what I always suspected!!

Bob

 

[Kev]

Actually they say the effect lasts for a couple of hours, so could obviously
be done in the fueling rig before it even goes into the racing car. Therfore
no weight penalty, or other problems.

MrT.

 

[Kev]

the_dawggie wrote:
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

Well 'lux turbo diesel made it to North Pole.

Make sure you get it right
MODIFIED turbo diesel Hilux with Arctic compatible fuel

Kev