Total beginner... so I don't know if what I want to do is easy or hard!

[Martaine2005]

ALSO, a quick note from the UK.
Watch the Peckerheads.....They bite...

Martin

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

ALSO, a quick note from the UK.
Watch the Peckerheads.....They bite...

Martin

Ahh Martin.
Why do I alway feel like I'm in Junior High school when talking to you?
(TranslationPrimary School)

 

[Nafnlaus]

Thanks Tha fios agaibh. Sounds like it'd be preferable to not take it apart.

Another clue about the motor, if it matters: when I shut it down (either unplug it or hit the stop switch on the controller), it clicks for maybe five seconds before it goes silent. I have no clue why.

Minder, your diagram makes a lot of sense based on what I saw in the wiring box. Here's my diagrammed version again, this time with what I think matches up to your diagram added in (apologies for the lousy drawing ability and the bit of a tangle):

That is, I think the brown source line matches up to the line on the bottom of your diagram (the route to the bottom of the running winding and the route to the centrifugal switch) , the black line over it that turns blue, runs through the capacitor, and comes out brown (smaller gauge than the black wire) corresponds to the top path to the starter winding, and the blue line at the bottom (same gauge as the black wire) corresponds to the top path to the running winding. The only difference is that my wiring box also has an additional black wire (diagrammed just below the ground) - it has a little label on it with the number "2" on it (none of the others have labels). I suspect that this might be some sort of control or sense wire?

Anyway, if my assumptions are correct, then the solution to reverse the motor would be to swap #1 and #2, correct? That should make the circuit like this, right?

Would that be an effective reversal? Or would the fact that the centrifugal switch also reverses also be a problem? I don't really know anything about the centrifugal switch.

If that would work, then there's one other issue that I see: I don't know which wire would be #2 and which would be #3. If I would guess wrong then it would end up making the circuit like this, right?

How bad of a situation would that be? If I'm not mistaken, that would just do nothing, right? If so, then I could just guess, and if the motor does nothing, I guessed wrong, and if it runs in reverse, I guessed right - correct?

 

[Nafnlaus]

If you have 4 leads perhaps you could ohm out the leads to see it they are the start and run windings. The resistance of the start winding is usually higher with smaller size conductors.

Okay, I'll give that a shot when I get a chance. But it's worth pointing out that I can already see one wire in the wiring box that's a smaller size conductor - the one that passes through the capacitor, which would again make sense for being the start winding (see above). Unfortunately, all of the white wires that actually enter the motor casing appeared to be the same diameter (as far as it looked, although I could check better), so that makes it hard to see which one corresponds to the other side of the starter winding (see the discussion above)

Do yourself a favor and keep away the grinder.

Good, I'd rather not open up that can of worms

 

[CDRIVE]

Peckerhead?? Uh, ...you can't say that here unless you've been drinking! Wait ... never mind. Everyone here seems to do that!
In fact it's an absolute miracle that we have such a large pool of intelligent grey matter, since the vast majority of us like to marinate our brain!

Chris

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

If your diagram is acurate, you can swap line 1 and 2 (start winding).
That click noise you hear is probably the Centrifical Switch.

ps; I apologize for our politically incorrect trade names in these parts.

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

Unfortunately, all of the white wires that actually enter the motor casing appeared to be the same diameter (as far as it looked, although I could check better), so that makes it hard to see which one corresponds to the other side of the starter winding

Just isolate the wires (remembering their location) and check for continuity between line 1 (capacitor), and the other two wires (either 2, or 3). That will be the other side of start winding.
The centrifugal switch is closed when the motor is stopped.

John

 

[Minder]

As pointed out, if you can identify the two windings you should be able to swap either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4.
M.

 

[Nafnlaus]

Sounds like a plan I'll give it a try the next time I'm out there

 

[Tha fios agaibh]

I tried taking the case apart yesterday...the inside of the motor now turns a bit against its housing

You'll want to sort this out and make sure the motor shaft is spinning freely before proceeding.

 

[Nafnlaus]

I already put the pins back in and the bolts back on - but yes, I can picture how that could be quite bad if I hadn't!

 

[GPG]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54125007@N08/20800488814/in/dateposted/
The 4 wires going to the motor are the start and run windings. They are both connected to phase (brown) The start winding is connected to the capacitor. The run, to neutral. A meter will tell you which is which Swap one winding's leads
Oops missed p3

 

[CDRIVE]

With the Ohmmeter on the Rx1 range the start winding will indicate continuity briefly. When the probes are first connected the reading will be low but rapidly increase while the cap is charging until it reaches infinity for the Rx1 range. Shorting the start leads discharges the cap enabling subsequent readings.

Chris

 

[Nafnlaus]

Hey all! Turns out the white wires weren't so unmarked at all - they had writing on the bottom (R1, R2, U1, U2), so I could tell which ones paired up to which winding And indeed, it turned backwards, no problem! So problem solved, thanks!

So in theory, unless I've got something if I wire it with the standard wire arrangement into the "up" position of a three position double-pole switch, the reversed arrangement I just tested into the "down" position on the same pole, open in the "center" position, and use the other pole to close the power switch in both the up and down position, with the center position being open, then it should in theory run forward when up, backward when down, and not run when the switch is in-between, right?

 

[CDRIVE]

Yes, a Double Pole Double Throw will give you Forward - Reverse.

Chris

 

[Nafnlaus]

Hi - sorry to resurrect an old thread! Last fall I ordered the necessary switch, but it took over a month to get here (ah, the joys of living in Iceland ) and by then I was busy with other projects. I finally got a Round Tuit last night and started wiring up the motor and found one minor issue: how to make sure it's off when the switch is in the off position? I see three main options:

1) Do nothing. By default, it'll have a break in the starting winding when the switch is in the off position
2) Break the running winding as well when in the off position
3) Break the live wire on the power cord leading up to the motor.

My main concerns about #1 and #2 (but especially #1) is that the motor would still be consuming power when off. With #3 I should be assured that there's no power running to it; my concerns are, A) it doesn't seem as "graceful" of a solution, tapping into the power cord rather than just wires inside the motor control box, and B) I want to make sure that I'm not going to throw a ground fault or something (I don't see how it would, but just want to be sure!).

Also: what is the "proper" way to make my wire connections? The switch has screw clamps, so I've screwed down what I've connected so far (some stick out a little bit, but I don't think there's a risk of a short), but as for the connections in the motor control box, right now I've just connected them with a braid. I could solder them then wrap in electrical tape, I could use a wire connector of any variety (I'd have to go to the store), I could both solder and use a wire connector... what's recommended?

Thanks you guys!

 

[CDRIVE]

Yes, resurrecting this topic is going to be very difficult, especially for the old farts among us. I'm glad I'm not one of them!
I thought you already had a main power switch. If not, your correct in your assumption that power won't be removed from the Run winding when your FWD/REV switch is in the Center OFF position. The rotor will not move but instead just sit there emanating a loud BUZZZZZZ that's impossible to ignore.

Since I believe both legs of your motor mains are hot you will need a DPST switch to safely disconnect it from the mains.
If two switches are unacceptable then your other option would be a single 4 Pole Double Throw (Center OFF) switch to both kill the power and reverse the motor.

Chris

 

[Nafnlaus]

There is a main power switch on the device. But I'd ideally like a single switch to control it.

Why would a DPST be needed to disable power? Wouldn't a break in the running winding circuit stop it from using power / making noise (option #2), and a break in the live wire on the power cord stop power altogether from reaching the motor (option #3)? What would be the point of breaking both sides of the running winding, or breaking both the live and neutral wire on the power cord?

Also, any thoughts on the recommended method of joining wires, as per the above?

Thanks for your input!

 

[CDRIVE]

I wasn't sure if your Iceland mains followed U.S. standards or not. In the U.S. a SPST switch is acceptable for use with 120V loads because Neutral is used making only one leg hot. On the other hand 240V loads don't utilize the Neutral leg. Because of this both legs are Hot with respect to Earth Ground. Therefore a SPST switch would not be acceptable or considered safe.

If your motor is powered from between Neutral and Hot then to utilize a single switch for power, forward and reverse then you will need a 3PDT(CO) switch. The 2 fixed (outer) poles of the power contacts should be jumped to supply mains power in both forward and reverse.

Your switch logic will look like this:

FWD - OFF - REV

FYI: The motor will not reverse until the rotor has come to a stop or is rotating below the centrifugal start switch drop-out RPM.

Chris

 

[Nafnlaus]

That makes total sense. Thanks!