This is getting ridiculous

[Michael A. Terrell]

Joerg wrote...

Hey, you were lucky to have a bicycle. And, we didn't even
have a town. How bad was it? It was sooo bad....

If it was any worse, Jim Thompson would have been your next door
neighbor! ;-)

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Pooh Bear]

Hello John,


Absolutely. Even the old stuff is so cheap compared to the 70's. We can
now buy ten 2N3904 for under $1.50 at Digikey. In the 70's I could not
even buy one for that, and $1.50 was a lot more money back then.

Uh ?

BC 548 - 5.2p ( £0.052 ) from Farnell !

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...549&Nty=1&showImages=true&N=401&Ntk=gensearch

We pay 2 US cents for that stuff in manfacturing quantities.

Graahm

 

[John Larkin]

Joerg wrote...

Hey, you were lucky to have a bicycle. And, we didn't even
have a town. How bad was it? It was sooo bad....

I had to take the streetcar down to Lee Circle (cost 7 cents each
way!) and walk the rest of the way to Radio Parts Inc. I recall paying
15 cents for a 1/4 watt resistor, back when my allowance was a dollar
a week. But the guys behind the counter used to slip me freebies.

But I did have a basically infinite supply of dead tube-type TV sets,
which helped a lot. And there was always Fair Radio Sales in Lima for
the exotica like radar displays.

Just received a picture from a friend: The St Charles Avenue streetcar
line is now unused, overgrown with weeds, and the beautiful old oaks
that line the street are still stripped from the winds of Katrina.
Very sad.

John

 

[Joerg]

Hello Joel,

...because that's (almost) what everyone else had to do as well. These days I
think that part of the reason that analog design engineering is becoming a
lost art is that, compared to the advances in performing digital design (where
you can literally build your own CPU in Verilog in VHDL in a day), analog
design is still relatively slow.

And because it is so tedious companies try to outsource that as well.
With very mixed results, sometimes resulting in huge recalls. We lucked
out, our laptop supplies weren't on the list.

Joerg, I think you'd be a good candidate to write a book as well! (I want to
believe that with todays cheap processors and high speed logic, with creative
analog design one should be able to build stuff like "do it at home"
ultrasound machines to sell to expectant mothers or something for, I dunno,
$149... and I figure you're the guy to be able to pull off the analog part of
the design on the cheap. )

Technology is almost there already. This is the company that can do it:
http://www.sonosite.com/content/view/89/199/

Some former co-workers are there. A big chunk of the cost is in the
transducer and the cable, more than $149. It's all a matter of quantity
though but I doubt it would be suitable for self-scanning. Proper
ultrasound scanning and image interpretation requires clinical skills
that are hard to learn. My wife used to teach doctors how to do it and
sometimes it was hair-pulling.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Joerg]

Hello Win,

Hey, you were lucky to have a bicycle. And, we didn't even
have a town. How bad was it? It was sooo bad....

Usually salvaged ones and I had to do triage decisions such as this: Ok,
the rear tire has about 1/50th of an inch left. Will it survive one more
round trip to town to buy a few ferrite cores if I try my best to avoid
rocks and pebbles? Or do I have to save the money for the cores towards
a new tire? If it didn't survive I'd get penalized because the inner
tube would explode and I'd have to buy one of those in addition.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:26:43 GMT, Joerg

[snip]

Proper
ultrasound scanning and image interpretation requires clinical skills
that are hard to learn. My wife used to teach doctors how to do it and
sometimes it was hair-pulling.

Regards, Joerg

I did my bachelor's thesis at MIT, but in concert with Harvard Medical
School.

It was a blood flow-rate measuring device (catheter with heated
thermistor).

I wrote an instruction manual and had my wife proof read it.

Her comment, "This seems awfully juvenile".

My response, "That's necessary so the doctors can understand it" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

Hello Graham,

BC 548 - 5.2p ( £0.052 ) from Farnell !

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...549&Nty=1&showImages=true&N=401&Ntk=gensearch

We pay 2 US cents for that stuff in manfacturing quantities.

Well, yes, I usually calculate around 1.5c with assembly for a BJT when
production is in China. Which is why I try not to use too many FETs in
my designs.

But I meant the 'street price', for a kid that wants to buy some parts
but not a whole reel. And who needs TO92 thru-hole parts. Thing is, I
don't know any kids that do this kind of electronic experimenting anymore.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Tim Williams]

Thing is, I
don't know any kids that do this kind of electronic experimenting
anymore.

I used to, but I suppose, technically, I am no longer a kid.

(Yeah well, sucks to technicalities!)

Tim

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

I used to, but I suppose, technically, I am no longer a kid.

(Yeah well, sucks to technicalities!)

Tim

Try to maintain an emotional age about 10. Particularly the enthusiasm
and sense of wonderment parts. ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Joel Kolstad]

Some former co-workers are there. A big chunk of the cost is in the
transducer and the cable, more than $149.

I was thinking of a unit that plugs into a TV or computer for the display to
save a little... What does the transducer head use for 'beam steering' -- an
array of individually phased transduced, or just a couple with adjustable
delays?

Proper ultrasound scanning and image interpretation requires clinical skills
that are hard to learn. My wife used to teach doctors how to do it and
sometimes it was hair-pulling.

Free self-teching DVD included? Hmm... with the doctors do they start
with dummies/test objects to image?

 

[Richard Henry]

I used to, but I suppose, technically, I am no longer a kid.

One of the younger engineers asked my why I wasn't complaining about working
weekends/holidays. I told him that I figured out a long time ago that if I
wasn't working, I'd probably do the same thing as a hobby, except that I
wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

[zwsdotcom@gmail.com]

One of the younger engineers asked my why I wasn't complaining about working
weekends/holidays. I told him that I figured out a long time ago that if I
wasn't working, I'd probably do the same thing as a hobby, except that I
wouldn't be able to afford it.

I will NEVER do weekend or holiday work for a 9-5 employer, even if
they offered to compensate me heavily (which, I assure you, they would
not!)

Yes, I am doing much the same thing on weekends and holidays, but I'm
doing it on my own projects, which is infinitely more rewarding. I
might feel differently if I was working at a small startup shop again,
but not for a Fortune xxx gorilla.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Joel,

I was thinking of a unit that plugs into a TV or computer for the display to
save a little... What does the transducer head use for 'beam steering' -- an
array of individually phased transduced, or just a couple with adjustable
delays?

Usually an array of 64 or more elements, 64 or more coaxes, a huge ($$$)
ZIF connector and a more or less brawl-proof enclosure. All this costs
way more than $149 just for the materials.

Free self-teching DVD included? Hmm... with the doctors do they start
with dummies/test objects to image?

That won't help. It would be like trying to teach how to drive a stick
shift car via a DVD. You have to show how to hold the transducer, how
much to press, angle and so on. After a number of years the S&M folks
can become better at it than doctors. A sad case was a guy who wanted to
demo a system and within a few seconds of imaging diagnosed thyroid
cancer on himself. OTOH that may have saved his life.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Steve]

That won't help. It would be like trying to teach how to drive a stick
shift car via a DVD. You have to show how to hold the transducer, how
much to press, angle and so on. After a number of years the S&M folks
can become better at it than doctors. A sad case was a guy who wanted to
demo a system and within a few seconds of imaging diagnosed thyroid
cancer on himself. OTOH that may have saved his life.

I'll second that comment. I'm a vet with significant general practice
radiology experience. Got a cheap ex-hospital ultrasound machine with
a view to playing with same, and some self teaching. Sheesh -
impossible! You need to be trained, and you need to do this every
day, regretably neither is possible for me.

Steve

 

[Joerg]

Hello Steve,

I'll second that comment. I'm a vet with significant general practice
radiology experience. Got a cheap ex-hospital ultrasound machine with
a view to playing with same, and some self teaching. Sheesh -
impossible! You need to be trained, and you need to do this every
day, regretably neither is possible for me.

You guys are burdened with some added obstacles. Furry animals have to
be shaved and then you still don't get the same level of coupling as you
do on bare skin. One trick to ease compliance for a non-sedated patient
is to pre-heat the ultrasound coupling gel to body temperature.

If you are trying it out on yourself and can't get good images try on
someone else. I am almost impenetrable for ultrasound. Even my wife
almost threw in the towel on me and she really is an expert.

In the beginning I tried it out on easy objects like my carotids. Then
when designing a new Doppler unit I found out I can't do this for long.
The acoustic bio-feedback almost made me faint.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Joel Kolstad]

One of the younger engineers asked my why I wasn't complaining about working
weekends/holidays. I told him that I figured out a long time ago that if I
wasn't working, I'd probably do the same thing as a hobby, except that I
wouldn't be able to afford it.

Not quite the same thing, but my grandfather used to tell me stories about
how, when he worked for Wisconsin Power & Electric back in the '30s, he and a
fellow engineer would be sent out to perform field work all over the state and
it was fully expected that the business (mostly farms -- rural
electricfication was going gangbusters at the time) they were visiting would
provide them with lodging for the night. In many (possibly even most) cases
that 'lodging' was sleeping on the floor of someone's house or barn!

This was considered the norm.

He said he felt quite lucky in that the company did pay for mileage on his
car, which was an unusual perk during the Great Depression era.

---Joel Kolstad

 

[Winfield Hill]

Joel Kolstad wrote...

He said he felt quite lucky in that the company did pay for mileage
on his car, which was an unusual perk during the Great Depression era.

My father, who at that time lived near Wash, DC, had landed the job
of his dreams in the southwest (with the Smithsonian Institute), but
was unfortunate enough to have his car stolen just then by his roommate,
thereby killing his grand job opportunity, and dramatically changing the
rest of his life. And no doubt mine as well. But, ahh, who can say...

 

[Winfield Hill]

Joel Kolstad wrote...

Not quite the same thing, but my grandfather used to tell me stories
about how, when he worked for Wisconsin Power & Electric back in the
'30s, he and a fellow engineer would be sent out to perform field work
all over the state and it was fully expected that the business (mostly
farms -- rural > electricfication was going gangbusters at the time)
they were visiting would provide them with lodging for the night.
In many (possibly even most) cases that 'lodging' was sleeping on
the floor of someone's house or barn! This was considered the norm.

He said he felt quite lucky in that the company did pay for mileage on
his car, which was an unusual perk during the Great Depression era.

When I traveled to one of my customer's sites to assist in a new
instrument installation, etc., I considered it an honor to be invited
to stay in their guest bedroom, and often did. I know they offered
this out of friendship, but also as an inducement to get me to come.
Fortunately the bedrooms were in the house, rather than in the barn.
Ah, those were the good old days.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:26:43 GMT, Joerg

[snip]

Proper
ultrasound scanning and image interpretation requires clinical skills
that are hard to learn. My wife used to teach doctors how to do it and
sometimes it was hair-pulling.

Regards, Joerg

I did my bachelor's thesis at MIT, but in concert with Harvard Medical
School.

It was a blood flow-rate measuring device (catheter with heated
thermistor).

I wrote an instruction manual and had my wife proof read it.

Her comment, "This seems awfully juvenile".

My response, "That's necessary so the doctors can understand it" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Mine was "The Tunnel Diode Slideback Sampling Oscilloscope." [1]

My advisor, also the dean of the EE school, was about as nasty and
ignorant a character as you'd ever want to not-meet, and he had no
idea what it was about, so he let it go.

He pronounced "transistor" with a long "s", tran-sis-ter.

John

[1] later renamed the "Monnett Mixer."

 

[Joel Kolstad]

He pronounced "transistor" with a long "s", tran-sis-ter.

I've heard trans-it-or from non-native English speakers...