The first half megawatt

[Tom P]

After exactly 8 weeks operation, our rooftop solar panel installation
has just clocked up its first 500 kilowatt hours - a spectacular result
for an installation in central Europe in winter.
Specifications:
- 17x Schuco MPE 185 MS 05 Blackline panels,
total collector area 21.7 m2
- Diehl 4300 TL grid feed-in inverter

 

[Falcon]

After exactly 8 weeks operation, our rooftop solar panel installation
has just clocked up its first 500 kilowatt hours - a spectacular result
for an installation in central Europe in winter.
Specifications:
- 17x Schuco MPE 185 MS 05 Blackline panels,
total collector area 21.7 m2
- Diehl 4300 TL grid feed-in inverter

21.7 square metres? Wow. That's almost as big as my south facing roof.

Anyway, well done, Tom. That's almost 9 kWH per day. My average consumption
is just under 8 kWH per day. Gas central heating helps keep the consumption
down, of course.

I'd love to know what you FIT is like. How long before you actually make a
profit?

 

[Giga2]

21.7 square metres? Wow. That's almost as big as my south facing roof.

Anyway, well done, Tom. That's almost 9 kWH per day. My average
consumption
is just under 8 kWH per day. Gas central heating helps keep the
consumption
down, of course.

I'd love to know what you FIT is like. How long before you actually make a
profit?

$600 each?
http://www.ecodirect.com/Schuco-MPE-185-MS-05-p/schuco-mpe-185-ms-05.htm

One day probably cost $60 each.

$10000 plus $1000 instalation? I pay less than $1000 a year for electricity,
not bad at 10-15 year cash pay back AND it'll still be worth quite a lot at
the end. It'll always mean a lot less bills for home ownwer. Say in ten
years still be worth $5000 to new owner if the house were sold.

 

[Falcon]

$600 each?
http://www.ecodirect.com/Schuco-MPE-185-MS-05-p/schuco-mpe-185-ms-05.htm

One day probably cost $60 each.

$10000 plus $1000 instalation? I pay less than $1000 a year for electricity,
not bad at 10-15 year cash pay back AND it'll still be worth quite a lot at
the end. It'll always mean a lot less bills for home ownwer. Say in ten
years still be worth $5000 to new owner if the house were sold.

£10,000 plus installation in the UK. And I pay less around £400 a year from
the grid. I suppose I MIGHT live long enough to break even ... around 25
years assuming 10% p.a. fuel inflation.

http://www.cjsolarsales.co.uk/calculator.php

 

[Tom P]

$600 each?
http://www.ecodirect.com/Schuco-MPE-185-MS-05-p/schuco-mpe-185-ms-05.htm

One day probably cost $60 each.

$10000 plus $1000 instalation?

That is the approximate total installation cost.

I pay less than $1000 a year for electricity,

not bad at 10-15 year cash pay back AND it'll still be worth quite a lot at
the end. It'll always mean a lot less bills for home ownwer. Say in ten
years still be worth $5000 to new owner if the house were sold.

Quite apart from the revenue from the grid feed-in, it really becomes
interesting as a business model thanks to the tax write-offs for
depreciation and operational costs (ie insurance), and the VAT refund on
the capital investment.

 

[Trawley Trash]

After exactly 8 weeks operation, our rooftop solar panel installation
has just clocked up its first 500 kilowatt hours - a spectacular
result for an installation in central Europe in winter.
Specifications:
- 17x Schuco MPE 185 MS 05 Blackline panels,
total collector area 21.7 m2
- Diehl 4300 TL grid feed-in inverter

It has already been spring for two of those
eight weeks.

In the summer you will produce more power than you
can use, but in January not enough.

I have about 3 m2 on the roof of my trailer. With LED light
fixtures and gas heat and cooking it produces
enough. After a few months of
operation the inverter died. I had to remove it (big job)
to repair it. When I repaired it, I found a design flaw
in the inverter. It needs to draw about 100 amps to power
the microwave, and the wires and connectors in the box
are not big enough. The connectors melt and produce smoke.

Solar panels are not zero maintenance. They gradually become
covered with dust which reduces the efficiency. They need to
be accessible for cleaning, and they need to be cleaned regularly.

Solar power pays in some places but not others. A person needs
to be aware of all the issues add things up carefully. Good
luck with your project.

 

[Giga2]

£10,000 plus installation in the UK. And I pay less around £400 a year
from
the grid. I suppose I MIGHT live long enough to break even ... around 25
years assuming 10% p.a. fuel inflation.

http://www.cjsolarsales.co.uk/calculator.php

Don't you need to take account of the residual value as well tho?

 

[Giga2]

That is the approximate total installation cost.

I pay less than $1000 a year for electricity,

Quite apart from the revenue from the grid feed-in, it really becomes
interesting as a business model thanks to the tax write-offs for
depreciation and operational costs (ie insurance), and the VAT refund on
the capital investment.

So this is a business buying this? Interesting. That must make the figures
even better.

 

[Giga2]

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"Tom P" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

You obviously do not understand electrical units!

Now other than your very obvious thread title displaying not knowing the
difference between power and energy... where did you get the ridiculous
idea you would ever "break even" on this investment?

If you put out $11,000 for the materials and installation the lost
investment interest on that, alone would come to ( I am being kind.. I
average more like 9-10%)
$11000 x 5% = $550 per year.

In your "15 year payback time", you bragged, the interest lost would
amount to $8,250 (uncompounded even). In the time you take to
"break-even" you will have repair and probably be replacing some of these
panels with new ones. I doubt your grid-tie will survive the 15 years,
especially with that poor quality European energy, it is attached to.

In short, until systems get a lot cheaper the payback time is "until death
do us part". Then it will cost your estate to have it removed.
BTW: In America you would be removing that system to sell your house
unless you want to deep discount it. Everybody wants one but to start
fresh with their own. This will change.


I have some swamp land to sell you in Florida. Absolutely no crocodiles,
guaranteed.



mike

Oh yeah, opportunity cost. Always easy to forget. I think 5% is a reasonable
estimate for such figures. So the question is will it still be worth quite a
lot in 15 years?

 

[Desertphile]

After exactly 8 weeks operation, our rooftop solar panel installation
has just clocked up its first 500 kilowatt hours - a spectacular result
for an installation in central Europe in winter.

Specifications:
- 17x Schuco MPE 185 MS 05 Blackline panels,
total collector area 21.7 m2
- Diehl 4300 TL grid feed-in inverter

Way cool. I get all of my electricity from 18 photovoltaic panels.
The monastery has over 300!

 

[you]

After a few months of
operation the inverter died. I had to remove it (big job)
to repair it. When I repaired it, I found a design flaw
in the inverter. It needs to draw about 100 amps to power
the microwave, and the wires and connectors in the box
are not big enough. The connectors melt and produce smoke.

Poor Planning, and believing the Sales-Droid hype, in the first place....
Anyone with any BRAINS, at all, knows that you NEVER run an Inverter,
over 1Kw from a 12VDC Battery system, and expect it to survive.....
UNLESS, it is a quality Unit like a SW, or DR, Trace or an OutBack....

 

[Peter Franks]

Oh yeah, opportunity cost. Always easy to forget. I think 5% is a reasonable
estimate for such figures. So the question is will it still be worth quite a
lot in 15 years?

No.

 

[Peter Franks]

After exactly 8 weeks operation, our rooftop solar panel installation
has just clocked up its first 500 kilowatt hours - a spectacular result
for an installation in central Europe in winter.
Specifications:
- 17x Schuco MPE 185 MS 05 Blackline panels,
total collector area 21.7 m2
- Diehl 4300 TL grid feed-in inverter

What was the installed cost (/total/ cost, including out of pocket,
incentives, rebates, etc.)?

I live in Las Vegas, a *perfect* place to install PV. Last time I
seriously looked (few years ago), out of pocket installed cost was
around $30K USD, including rebates. Conclusion: not cost effective.

I'm in to PV for ONE THING: save $$. I don't care about the technology
(I find it ugly), and we have local hydro (although only a small
percentage is used for local power, most goes to CA), so environmental
impact is at or near zero.

 

[Falcon]

Don't you need to take account of the residual value as well tho?

Good point. What will be the residual value of 25 year old solar panels?
Will an item guaranteed for five years by the manufacturer actually last
that long? I would imagine your guess is as good as mine

 

[m II]

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"Tom P" wrote in message


You obviously do not understand electrical units!

Forged posting reported to Josepi's provider.


mike



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[Trawley Trash]

Poor Planning, and believing the Sales-Droid hype, in the first
place.... Anyone with any BRAINS, at all, knows that you NEVER run an
Inverter, over 1Kw from a 12VDC Battery system, and expect it to
survive..... UNLESS, it is a quality Unit like a SW, or DR, Trace or
an OutBack....

No salesman talked me into this. It was an experiment. I guess you
think it is stupid to try something and report the results? Smart
people only spend their time cutting others down, eh?

The inverter was rated for it. It was not cheap. The
batteries were special and held up, but they are high maintenance
golf cart batteries.

The biggest problem was finding a low power microwave. Time after
time I found the power consumption numbers stated in literature
to be wrong. If I could have found a 550 watt microwave like I
planned, everything would have been fine. My first microwave
was that size, but they don't seem to make them that small any more.

 

[no spam]

Forged posting reported to Josepi's provider.


mike

How?

 

[danny burstein]

The biggest problem was finding a low power microwave. Time after
time I found the power consumption numbers stated in literature
to be wrong. If I could have found a 550 watt microwave like I
planned, everything would have been fine. My first microwave
was that size, but they don't seem to make them that small any more.

Might I suggest stopping by your local Goodwill/Salvation Army/etc.
stores? Microwave ovens are a frequent dropoff.

 

[Giga2]

Good point. What will be the residual value of 25 year old solar panels?
Will an item guaranteed for five years by the manufacturer actually last
that long? I would imagine your guess is as good as mine

5 year guarantee is MASSIVE! After all its pretty much a solid-state
component with no moving parts AND it is modular. I can't see any particular
reason they wouldn't last for 50 years (but there may be?). The main thing
that will undercut residuals is perhaps similar to computer technology. The
new stuff will be so cheap and a lot better making older models almost
worthless. However it will already be installed and essentially doing the
required job so should still have a reasonable value to any new owner of the
property.

 

[Giga2]

It has already been spring for two of those
eight weeks.

In the summer you will produce more power than you
can use, but in January not enough.

I have about 3 m2 on the roof of my trailer. With LED light
fixtures and gas heat and cooking it produces
enough. After a few months of
operation the inverter died. I had to remove it (big job)
to repair it. When I repaired it, I found a design flaw
in the inverter. It needs to draw about 100 amps to power
the microwave, and the wires and connectors in the box
are not big enough. The connectors melt and produce smoke.

Solar panels are not zero maintenance. They gradually become
covered with dust which reduces the efficiency. They need to
be accessible for cleaning, and they need to be cleaned regularly.

Can you not just get a hose and give them a good rinsing?