That global warming thingy

[MassiveProng]

but crap

You mean every post you make is crap.

Yeah... I agree with that.

 

[Eeyore]

I was looking at an online science seminar, but the main speaker asked
the journalist audience, of 150, "how many had a science degree?"

Three did. Maybe thats why GW is badly represented in the press, the
press can't understand it!

I'm sure that much is right.

Certainly the politicians don't understand it either.

Some of those listed on the IPCC report apparently wanted to distance themselves
from it too.

Doesn't bode well that a buch of utter fuckwits are saying "the world is about
to end" does it ?

Then you see US magaine Vanity Fair illustrating a drowned Manhattan (and I
don't just mean the 7 m sea level rise from losing the Greenland Ice Cap) as if
it was about to happen any year now to get attention and it's clear it's all
lies.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Absolutely captivating.

It was pretty decent wasn't it ? I had though to mention it earlier myself after
I watched it but there wasn't anything available online at the time.

Didn't stop watching from the start.

Likewise. It's been a while since I've watched anything so attentively.

Flipped my mindset and viewpoint. Thank you.

I still think we need big Chlorine scrubbing dirigibles at the South
Pole, but I do not think that we are in some serious trouble any
longer, and what is going on in Africa is appalling. Again, thank you
for that.

Weird how it said that there was only one viewing! I can't believe
I am the only one that has watched it! Can't be true.

Curious. It'll soon catch on I'm sure.

Graham

 

[James Arthur]

We can already see the "positive" aspects of a warmer climate here
(Southeastern US). Crops that once flourished untouched by insects
are virtually impossible to grow because the lack of a hard freeze
leaves the mold and insect larva intact from season to season. I, for
one, would like a real tomato, not those little cherry thingees, or
that tasteless crap that Florida exports. Haven't seen a real tomato
in close to 10 years now.

Where one stands on global warming is largely a matter of personal
bias or financial bias. The science is saying it is real, and likely
to have very unpleasant consequences.

I still have no confidence in long-term projections based on
incomplete models of poorly understood phenomena. A further
appreciation of the difficulties came from contact with one of _the_
guys who works on the global climate modelling.

For example, he relates: warmer climate produces more clouds. The
net effect of clouds is not understood--there are many different
kinds, at different altitudes, of different densities and colors; hard
to measure. From above, they reflect solar energy, cooling, but trap
heat from radiated from below.

Warmer temps grow plants faster, and dissolve CO2 into seawater
faster.

Eyeore comments that a warmer climate will reduce his emissions by
chopping his heating bill, and there might be significant other
reductions (less snow lowing, less congestion on snow-bound
highways...).

The upshot is that it's very non-linear, and no one knows what's to
happen.

Ignoring the situation may make you feel better - but when you
consider what is at stake wouldn't it make more sense to err on the
side of caution? Not for you - for those that might want to enjoy the
world you and I leave them.

But, even if you believe it, what on Earth could possibly be done
about it?

"CO2 has a variable atmospheric lifetime (approximately 200-450 years
for small perturbations). Recent work indicates that recovery from a
large input of atmospheric CO2 from burning fossil fuels will result
in an effective lifetime of tens of thousands of years." (http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas)

So, if one accepts the premise that we've already warmed the Earth,
the effect would persist for centuries even if we (the entire world)
cut emissions to ZERO tomorrow.

The only thing I'm confident of is that the "cure" government/industry
impose on the global warming problem - will be just as damaging, or
more damaging, than the problem itself - while being financially
rewarding the corporations that provide the cures.

Personally, I don't think the world is ready to make the sacrifices it
will take to save the planet, and it may be too late now.

Personally, ISTM that it always make sense to conserve and guard the
planet, but climate change--hotter or colder--is what it is: not a
problem to be solved, but a fact to be faced and dealt with.

James Arthur

 

[martin griffith]

You mean every post you make is crap.

Yeah... I agree with that.

check out:
http://puddle.mit.edu/~cwunsch/
then a published email about the programme:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Wunsch"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: Just wanted to check something

I've not seen it and the context was not at all what we
had agreed on. Was billed as a balanced discussion of the
threat of global warming As I began to see ads for the program, I
realized I'd been duped. I'm wondering if there's some way I can get
to see it. If you do register some kind of complaint, can you let me
know what it says?

Carl

and about the director, Durkin, not the first time he's pulled this
sort of stunt

The writer and presenter of the programme was Martin Durkin who is
closely affiliated with the Revolutionary Communist Party which has a
strong ideological opposition to environmental science. In 1997
Channel Four was forced to issue its first ever broadcast apology over
extreme editing distortions in a similar series knocking
environmentalism.

I could go one, but your attention span could not cope


martin

 

[Eeyore]

West Nile Fever, Eastern Equine Encephalitis, Malaria, Dengue are
other advantages

Are you being serious ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Build greenhouses like they do in Ohio, dipshit!

We have 5 inch diameter beefsteaks that are luscious!

Back in ~1990 for a few years I grew tomatos in my back garden here just in the
open.

Given the nice weather we look set for I'm tempted to do it again this year. The
only fly in the ointment is that my neighbour's planted a hedge and it may cut
down the sunlight a bit.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

No. The propaganda is saying that science is saying it is real.
Watch the flic, and see that REAL scientists are saying that it is not
real, and have the proofs.

It's still very contentious but the very fact that politicians are going on
about it tends to make me believe it must be wrong.

Graham

 

[Jim Thompson]

This ain't Ohio. We had a week of temperatures over 100 peaking at
106 a few years ago - with humidity in the 80-90 percent range.
Native plants begin wilting outdoors under those conditions.

[snip]

I'm puzzled. I've grown tomatoes in my front entryway... sun in the
morning, shaded from about 11AM onward, at temperatures as high as
115°F.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Eeyore]

Tell that to impoverished South Africans that have no electricity
because of retarded twits like you.

You're thinking of that doctor who was grumbling about the uselessness of solar
PV panels ?

Should we industrialized nations be the only ones with electrical
power?

He made a very good point I thought that 'the West' wants to make it expensive
for them.

Why aren't you getting by without using it? Hmmmm?

You're a Hypocrite!

Lemmie guess... you don't think the oceans produce CO2?

Watch the flic, dipshit.

It seems to make far more sense to me that CO2 levels should trail warming.
After all there's so much CO2 trapped in solution in the oceans.

Graham

 

[Jim Thompson]

The "first" scientist that espoused global warming?

[snip]

The "first" modern scientist that predicted the sky is falling...
Gore's idol, has now retracted his views, switching to warming causes
CO2, NOT vice versa.

I'll try to relocate the article and his name.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Eeyore]

I found that quite telling. You are talking about the co-founder of
Greenpeace, right? Very telling! He said that it is specifically
political propaganda.

I liked the way he said he realised the 'environmental movement' had lost its
way when at a Greenpeace meeting they were discussing *banning sulphur* ! As he
put it "to discuss banning a element in the oeriodic table!".

Graham

 

[martin griffith]

Are you being serious ?

Graham

Mainly malaria.
Probably not in the UK, but maybe places like Romania, possibly
southern Spain, it's only a 15 Km from Morroco, and P.vivax is less
than 200Km from Gibraltar www.map.ox.ac.uk

Probably not in our life time, but in your childrens


martin

 

[Eeyore]

Mainly malaria.
Probably not in the UK, but maybe places like Romania, possibly
southern Spain, it's only a 15 Km from Morroco, and P.vivax is less
than 200Km from Gibraltar www.map.ox.ac.uk

Maybe that would be a spur to finally eradicate it ?

Mind you, getting rid of standing water is pretty effective.

Graham

 

[default]

It doesn't trouble you that the scientist who first espoused global
warming has reversed his opinion.

The "first" scientist that espoused global warming? I think that was
1820's or so. Which first were you referring to? I've been hearing
about the probability for warming due to carbon since 1960 and those
scientists were building on the work of others.

I'm no climatologist, but I have gotten into the habit of listening to
people that know about the topics I don't. The large consensus of
climatologists says it is real and I tend to believe it.

I do have a reservation - human nature being what it is, the
climatologists may just like the limelight or importance the idea
bestows on them - and they may be biased - rock star syndrome.

But my overall bias is towards believing them - you just don't
introduce anything into the environment on the scale that we have
carbon from the beginning of the industrial age without seeing some
change in the environment.

As for a "real tomato", you apparently don't know how to shop. I can
buy "legacy tomatoes" at just about every grocery in Phoenix.

...Jim Thompson

Agreed no doubt you can. My mother, who is very good at killing any
living plant, can grow fine tomatoes in NY. But with the humidity we
have here, we have insects mold and bacteria.

Perhaps given time the plants will develop the mechanisms to deal with
the problem, but climate is ahead of evolution now.

 

[default]

Build greenhouses like they do in Ohio, dipshit!

Sounds like my neighbors - install bigger air conditioners, plant palm
trees, no problem, where's the problem? It used to be three plants
would yield more tomatoes than I could use - now planting four rows is
a waste of effort.

Of course a 1 degree change in water temperature means a category 5
hurricane is now a category 6 when it slams into the coast - they have
no good response to that one.

We have 5 inch diameter beefsteaks that are luscious!

This ain't Ohio. We had a week of temperatures over 100 peaking at
106 a few years ago - with humidity in the 80-90 percent range.
Native plants begin wilting outdoors under those conditions. I tried
growing them in my greenhouse in winter but the cost of lighting was
killing me - they require a good 8 hours of strong daylight or grow
spindly and don't fruit well. The head start in the greenhouse and
transplanting with post hole diggers worked for a few years.

Wheat fields in greenhouses someday?

 

[MassiveProng]

This ain't Ohio. We had a week of temperatures over 100 peaking at
106 a few years ago - with humidity in the 80-90 percent range.
Native plants begin wilting outdoors under those conditions.

[snip]

I'm puzzled. I've grown tomatoes in my front entryway... sun in the
morning, shaded from about 11AM onward, at temperatures as high as
115°F.

They certainly don't "wilt" in a greenhouse either, which is what I
suggested.

Also, greenhouse temps can be significantly lower than the temp
outside them with simple ventilation, and even water mist cooling, if
needed. Basic physics.

 

[MassiveProng]

You're thinking of that doctor who was grumbling about the uselessness of solar
PV panels ?



He made a very good point I thought that 'the West' wants to make it expensive
for them.



It seems to make far more sense to me that CO2 levels should trail warming.
After all there's so much CO2 trapped in solution in the oceans.

Yes, that and the fact that the folks that want to quell giving them
normal electrical generation methods are hurting them more than
helping them, yet they all enjoy their electrical luxuries.

 

[default]

Well, contribute by killing yourself then!

If all you "too late" retards did that, the "problem" would be 100%
solved!

Basically, if it is too late, retards like you won't be able to do
anything about it, and if you all off yourselves, the rest of us won't
care. Either way, the "problem" needs no attention.

So... DO IT, BOY! Go find a rope!

you are amazingly ignorant and self righteous - you, and those of your
ilk, are the world's greatest problem. There, but for the grace of
God, go I.

I'm too old to sweat the consequences - the problem is I do care what
happens after I leave.

And no, I don't believe in God - that was to illustrate a point.

 

[MassiveProng]

Maybe that would be a spur to finally eradicate it ?

Mind you, getting rid of standing water is pretty effective.

Recalling the film, malaria is not a tropical disease. It killed
tens of thousands in SIBERIA at one time, and infected ten million!