Suggestions for (Low) Temperature and Water alarms

blueman · Mar 28, 2006

We have a DMP XR200L based wired alarm system consisting currently of
smokes, door/window sensors, and motion sensors.

I would like to add a water sensor in the basement and at least one
temperature sensor.

I would like the temperature sensor to be small and unobtrusive yet
adjustable if possible.

Any suggestions on brands and models to consider that would be
compatible and consistent with my alarm system.

Thanks

Robert L Bass · Mar 28, 2006

Winland Electronics makes an environmental alert system called EnviroAlert that
will do what you want . I sell their products online. Here's a link to their
website. My URL is in my tag line below.
http://www.winland.com/security/products.php?category_id=5

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Crash Gordon · Mar 29, 2006

DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the
one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.

You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the loops if
using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.

| We have a DMP XR200L based wired alarm system consisting currently of
| smokes, door/window sensors, and motion sensors.
|
| I would like to add a water sensor in the basement and at least one
| temperature sensor.
|
| I would like the temperature sensor to be small and unobtrusive yet
| adjustable if possible.
|
| Any suggestions on brands and models to consider that would be
| compatible and consistent with my alarm system.
|
| Thanks
|

Frank Olson · Mar 29, 2006

Crash said:
DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the
one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.

You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the loops if
using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.

Quick question about DMP (you'll catch on to the reason). Are the
"common" zone terminals at the same potential as the negative aux power?
If this is the case, then you'll only need four conductors to hook up
high and low temps.

Frank Olson
http://www.yoursecuritysource.com

Crash Gordon · Mar 29, 2006

I believe so,,,except for zones 9 & 10 (two 12v fire zones)...and any
expansion card zones, or expansion keypad zones...so I'd not do it with 4
conds.

| Crash Gordon wrote:
| > DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine
(the
| > one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
| > correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
| > panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.
| >
| > You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the
loops if
| > using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.
|
|
| Quick question about DMP (you'll catch on to the reason). Are the
| "common" zone terminals at the same potential as the negative aux power?
| If this is the case, then you'll only need four conductors to hook up
| high and low temps.
|
| Frank Olson
| http://www.yoursecuritysource.com

Robert L Bass · Mar 29, 2006

DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the

one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.

I used to do high and low temp using one zone. I set up an EOL supervised
24-hour zone. Low temperature would open the circuit and high temperature would
short the resistor. At the keypad the zone would display "TEMP ALARM". At the
CS we'd configure the BOLD data for that zone so that an "alarm" meant high
temperature and a "trouble" meant low temperature.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

Crash Gordon · Mar 29, 2006

yah you could do that..but i like to do stuff simple...easy to
see/service/figure out 5 years later.

|> DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the
| > one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
| > correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
| > panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.
|
| I used to do high and low temp using one zone. I set up an EOL supervised
| 24-hour zone. Low temperature would open the circuit and high temperature
would
| short the resistor. At the keypad the zone would display "TEMP ALARM".
At the
| CS we'd configure the BOLD data for that zone so that an "alarm" meant
high
| temperature and a "trouble" meant low temperature.
|
| --
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
|
| Bass Burglar Alarms
| The Online DIY Store
| http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
|
| --
|
| Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.
|

Robert L Bass · Mar 29, 2006

yah you could do that..but i like to do stuff simple...

easy to see/service/figure out 5 years later.

I agree. That's another reason I leave manuals and drawings inside the panel.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

blueman · Mar 30, 2006

Crash Gordon said:
DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the
one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.

You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the loops if
using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.

Since most of my wire is 4-conductor and I can't think of any reason for a
high temp sensor (I already have 14 wired smokes in the house and 1
heat detector in the garage) shouldn't I just consider having one zone
using +/- and the two wires for the cold sensor?

Also, any recommendations on a good water/flood sensor for the
basement?

Thanks

Robert L Bass · Mar 30, 2006

Since most of my wire is 4-conductor and I can't think of any reason for a

high temp sensor (I already have 14 wired smokes in the house and 1
heat detector in the garage) shouldn't I just consider having one zone
using +/- and the two wires for the cold sensor?

That'll work fine.

Side note: Just in case you ever need it, there is a way to monitor two nearby
powered devices using a single, 4-wire cable. Most alarm and home automation
control panels use the common negative for one side of the zone (sensing
circuit) wiring.

Most 4-wire alarm cable is red, black, yellow and green. Connect +12VDC from to
the red wire and -12VDC to the black. At one sensor connect an EOL resistor
between the negative (-12VDC) terminal and the (C) alarm output terminal.
Attach the yellow wire to the (NC) alarm output terminal.

Run a short piece of 4-conductor cable between the first and second detector.
Parallel the (+) and (-) wires. Again bridge and EOL resistor between the
(-12VDC) and the (C) terminal. Connect the green wire to the (NC) terminal.

Back at the panel, connect the red and black to (+) and (-) 12VDC. Connect the
yellow to one zone and the green to another zone. You now have two supervised
circuits running on a single 4-conductor cable.

I've done this occasionally when we needed to add a second motion or glass break
detector on the opposite side of the wall where an existing one was already
installed. The technique can be slightly modified to provide a supervised
tamper circuit on a powered device or to monitor two separate outputs (like hot
and cold temperature, for example) on one sensor.

Also, any recommendations on a good water/flood sensor for the
basement?

Winland electronics also make water leak / flood detectors called "WaterBug
Alerts". I've used them in numerous locations, including under floor wireways
in computer rooms, under carpets in residences, next to sump pumps to detect
failures, etc. I've also sold them to waste water treatment facilities around
the country. They're installed in pumping stations to warn of high waste water
levels. Combined with a voice/pager dialer, they make an inexpensive backup to
the elaborate (expensive) pump monitoring systems.

Here's a link to the manufacturer. You can find pricing on my website if that's
of interest.
http://www.winland.com/security/products.php?category_id=2

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

blueman · Mar 31, 2006

OK, based on the feedback so far, I am trying to decide between the
following choices. Can you advise on my thought process?

FLOOD MONITORING
A. The "gold standard" appears to be a combination of the Sentrol
5501-M monitor and the separate surface mount sensor 5515-G.

Pros: Seems to be higher end (and maybe more reliable??)
Allows for up to 4 detectors
Cons: Price (about

50 for the controller and

20 for each sensor)
Requires power (lithium batteries)

B. GRI 2800 Water switch

Pros: Cheap ($15)
2-wire, no power requirement

Cons: Don't know but is it as reliable???

----> I am tending to option "B" unless there are reliability issues with
----> the cheaper sensor.

LOW TEMPERATURE:
A. Winland MTA-1

Pros: Seems to be standard 'workhouse'
Adjustable low and high temperature sensors
No power requirement (though requires
3 wires if you use both)

Cons: Bigger/more intrusive than a fixed temperature sensor
Also, more expensive ($40)

B. Winland TA-40
Pros: Cheap ($15)
Much less intrusive and thus more easily hideable
No power requirement/2 wires only

Cons: Not adjustable (fixed at 39 deg +/- 5.4 deg)
Low temperature only (but ok for me since I don't need high
temp)

----> Tougher decision here. Price is not really an issue nor is the high
----> temperature feature. I am really torn between the smaller
----> profile of the TA-40 vs. the adjustability of the MTA-1. My gut
----> would be to go first with the TA-40 and then only "upgrade" to
----> the MTA-1 (or even to a higher end digital one) if I find that I
----> need more adjustability.

Any comments on the above?
Thanks!!!!!

Crash Gordon · Mar 31, 2006

I've used them all...no problems with any of them. Although these days I
prefer the adjustable digital version of the temp sensor (requires power),
but the mechanical one is fine.

| OK, based on the feedback so far, I am trying to decide between the
| following choices. Can you advise on my thought process?
|
| FLOOD MONITORING
| A. The "gold standard" appears to be a combination of the Sentrol
| 5501-M monitor and the separate surface mount sensor 5515-G.
|
| Pros: Seems to be higher end (and maybe more reliable??)
| Allows for up to 4 detectors
| Cons: Price (about

50 for the controller and

20 for each sensor)
| Requires power (lithium batteries)
|
| B. GRI 2800 Water switch
|
| Pros: Cheap ($15)
| 2-wire, no power requirement
|
| Cons: Don't know but is it as reliable???
|
| ----> I am tending to option "B" unless there are reliability issues with
| ----> the cheaper sensor.
|
| LOW TEMPERATURE:
| A. Winland MTA-1
|
| Pros: Seems to be standard 'workhouse'
| Adjustable low and high temperature sensors
| No power requirement (though requires
| 3 wires if you use both)
|
| Cons: Bigger/more intrusive than a fixed temperature sensor
| Also, more expensive ($40)
|
| B. Winland TA-40
| Pros: Cheap ($15)
| Much less intrusive and thus more easily hideable
| No power requirement/2 wires only
|
| Cons: Not adjustable (fixed at 39 deg +/- 5.4 deg)
| Low temperature only (but ok for me since I don't need high
| temp)
|
| ----> Tougher decision here. Price is not really an issue nor is the high
| ----> temperature feature. I am really torn between the smaller
| ----> profile of the TA-40 vs. the adjustability of the MTA-1. My gut
| ----> would be to go first with the TA-40 and then only "upgrade" to
| ----> the MTA-1 (or even to a higher end digital one) if I find that I
| ----> need more adjustability.
|
| Any comments on the above?
| Thanks!!!!!
|
| > DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine
(the
| > one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel
| > correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
| > panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.
| >
| > You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the
loops if
| > using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.
| >
| >
| >
| > | > | We have a DMP XR200L based wired alarm system consisting currently of
| > | smokes, door/window sensors, and motion sensors.
| > |
| > | I would like to add a water sensor in the basement and at least one
| > | temperature sensor.
| > |
| > | I would like the temperature sensor to be small and unobtrusive yet
| > | adjustable if possible.
| > |
| > | Any suggestions on brands and models to consider that would be
| > | compatible and consistent with my alarm system.
| > |
| > | Thanks
| > |

Crash Gordon · Apr 1, 2006

btw, do you know how to program a 200?

| I've used them all...no problems with any of them. Although these days I
| prefer the adjustable digital version of the temp sensor (requires power),
| but the mechanical one is fine.
|
|
| || OK, based on the feedback so far, I am trying to decide between the
|| following choices. Can you advise on my thought process?
||
|| FLOOD MONITORING
|| A. The "gold standard" appears to be a combination of the Sentrol
|| 5501-M monitor and the separate surface mount sensor 5515-G.
||
|| Pros: Seems to be higher end (and maybe more reliable??)
|| Allows for up to 4 detectors
|| Cons: Price (about

50 for the controller and

20 for each sensor)
|| Requires power (lithium batteries)
||
|| B. GRI 2800 Water switch
||
|| Pros: Cheap ($15)
|| 2-wire, no power requirement
||
|| Cons: Don't know but is it as reliable???
||
|| ----> I am tending to option "B" unless there are reliability issues with
|| ----> the cheaper sensor.
||
|| LOW TEMPERATURE:
|| A. Winland MTA-1
||
|| Pros: Seems to be standard 'workhouse'
|| Adjustable low and high temperature sensors
|| No power requirement (though requires
|| 3 wires if you use both)
||
|| Cons: Bigger/more intrusive than a fixed temperature sensor
|| Also, more expensive ($40)
||
|| B. Winland TA-40
|| Pros: Cheap ($15)
|| Much less intrusive and thus more easily hideable
|| No power requirement/2 wires only
||
|| Cons: Not adjustable (fixed at 39 deg +/- 5.4 deg)
|| Low temperature only (but ok for me since I don't need high
|| temp)
||
|| ----> Tougher decision here. Price is not really an issue nor is the high
|| ----> temperature feature. I am really torn between the smaller
|| ----> profile of the TA-40 vs. the adjustability of the MTA-1. My gut
|| ----> would be to go first with the TA-40 and then only "upgrade" to
|| ----> the MTA-1 (or even to a higher end digital one) if I find that I
|| ----> need more adjustability.
||
|| Any comments on the above?
|| Thanks!!!!!
||
|| > DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine
| (the
|| > one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the
panel
|| > correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP
|| > panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.
|| >
|| > You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the
| loops if
|| > using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.
|| >
|| >
|| >
|| > || > | We have a DMP XR200L based wired alarm system consisting currently of
|| > | smokes, door/window sensors, and motion sensors.
|| > |
|| > | I would like to add a water sensor in the basement and at least one
|| > | temperature sensor.
|| > |
|| > | I would like the temperature sensor to be small and unobtrusive yet
|| > | adjustable if possible.
|| > |
|| > | Any suggestions on brands and models to consider that would be
|| > | compatible and consistent with my alarm system.
|| > |
|| > | Thanks
|| > |
|
|

blueman · Apr 2, 2006

Mostly -- I have the RemoteLink software and ICOM internet interface
which allows me to program from a PC (and is a lot easier I imagine
than trying to do it from a DMP keypad).

That being said, I am sure that I will have some questions with some
of the settings since my system currently only has
fire/motion/window/door contacts and no environmental sensors, so I
don't have any good direct examples of how to set those up.

Thanks for asking and hopefully you or others will be around when I am
ready to program it and then I can submit my suggested programming for
review by the "experts".

Crash Gordon · Apr 2, 2006

A homeowner with RemoteLink...I'm impressed.

DMP is really easy either way.
If you need help lemme know.

R.

| Mostly -- I have the RemoteLink software and ICOM internet interface
| which allows me to program from a PC (and is a lot easier I imagine
| than trying to do it from a DMP keypad).
|
| That being said, I am sure that I will have some questions with some
| of the settings since my system currently only has
| fire/motion/window/door contacts and no environmental sensors, so I
| don't have any good direct examples of how to set those up.
|
| Thanks for asking and hopefully you or others will be around when I am
| ready to program it and then I can submit my suggested programming for
| review by the "experts".
|
|
| > btw, do you know how to program a 200?
| >
| >
|

blueman · Aug 8, 2006

Crash Gordon said:
A homeowner with RemoteLink...I'm impressed.

DMP is really easy either way.
If you need help lemme know.

R.

OK, after a couple of months delay, I am now ready to install both
temperature and water sensors to my DMP200 alarm system.

I intend to program it using RemoteLink but am a bit unsure exactly
what values to choose since I don't have any examples of environmental
sensors (I only have fire/smoke and burgular type zones).

Can someone review my choices and let me know what I am doing right or
wrong? (thanks)

Note the fields are based upon the field names in the RemoteLink
application.

Zone Number: <new number>
Zone Name: <name for zone>
Type: Auxiliary2? Supervisory? (which is more appropriate?)
(Choices are: blank, night, day, exit, fire, panic, emergency,
supervisory, auxiliary1, fire verify, arming)

Note: According to the manual definition, "Supervisory" seems
like the best match, but someone earlier on the thread
mentioned "Aux." If I do use "Aux", then I'm thinking that
Aux2 may be better than Aux1 since you can set the "Zone
Retard Delay Time" to avoid momentary transients setting it
off.

Partition: 1
Area: -
(Choices are: Bedrooms, Interior, Perimeter, -)

If using "Supervisory", my programming GUESSES are as follows:
DO Message: Grayed-out
Fire Bell Output: 0
DO Output Action: Grayed-out
DO Message: Grayed-out
DS Output: Grayed-out
DO Output Action: Grayed-out
AO Message: Trouble
AO Output Action: Steady
AS Message: Alarm
AS Output: 0
AS Output Action: Steady

If using "Auxiliary", my programming GUESSES are as follows:
DO Message: None
DO Output: 0
DO Output Action: None
DO Message: None
DS Output: 0
DO Output Action: None
AO Message: Trouble
AO Output Action: Steady
AS Message: Alarm
AS Output: 0
AS Output Action: Steady

Prewarn Keypads: Grayed-out
Entry Delay Number: Grayed-out

Swinger Bypass: no-check
Retard: no-check
Fast Response: no-check
Cross Zone: no-check
Priority ZOne: no-check

Wireless: no-check

Any comments and help on the above are more than welcome...

Crash Gordon · Aug 8, 2006

Welp here's how I did a Wine Temp Sensor with an XR200.

Zone Name - Wine Temp
Type - Aux1
Partition - 1
Area - Perimeter

DO Message - Alarm
DO Output - 0
DO Output Action - None
DS Message - Trouble
DS Output - None
DS Output Action - Steady
AO Message - Alarm
AO Output - 0
AO Output Action - Steady
AS Message - Trouble
AS Output - 0
AS Output Action - Steady

The output stuff is meaningless, their for controlling relays.

Supervisory may work for you too, but it won't clear until the room/refrig
goes back to normal temp...which may be annoying.

I've done these several different ways...mostly by experimenting

blueman · Aug 9, 2006

Thanks -- a couple of clarify questions/comments inserted below inline...

Crash Gordon said:
Welp here's how I did a Wine Temp Sensor with an XR200.

Zone Name - Wine Temp
Type - Aux1

Have you ever tried Aux2?
It seems that Aux2 has the "feature" of not alarming immediately, but
instead waiting until "Zone Retard Delay Time" which might avoid
problems with momentary transients (e.g, with a water sensor if some
water splashes onto it or something).

Partition - 1
Area - Perimeter

My alarm also offers the option of "-". What does that mean?
Also, in your setup is it really irrelevant what you use for "Area"
since your setup for DO/DS is the same as AO/AS?

DO Message - Alarm
DO Output - 0
DO Output Action - None
DS Message - Trouble

I'm not sure I understand what "Trouble" means and how it is used here.
Isn't the normal, untriggered condition "DS/AS" -- if so why do you
want to signal a "Trouble" condition when the circuit is shorted
(appropriately).
Or does DS mean that there is no series resistor and the circuit is
fully shorted?

DS Output - None
DS Output Action - Steady
AO Message - Alarm
AO Output - 0
AO Output Action - Steady
AS Message - Trouble
AS Output - 0
AS Output Action - Steady

The output stuff is meaningless, their for controlling relays.

If "AO Output" and "AO Output Action" refer to the relay status, how
does one specify when and whether the alarm itself is triggered?

Supervisory may work for you too, but it won't clear until the room/refrig
goes back to normal temp...which may be annoying.

Isn't that a "feature"? Don't you want to know that there still is a
problem until it is corrected?

Thanks

Crash Gordon · Aug 9, 2006

| Thanks -- a couple of clarify questions/comments inserted below inline...
| > Welp here's how I did a Wine Temp Sensor with an XR200.
| >
| > Zone Name - Wine Temp
| > Type - Aux1
|
| Have you ever tried Aux2?
| It seems that Aux2 has the "feature" of not alarming immediately, but
| instead waiting until "Zone Retard Delay Time" which might avoid
| problems with momentary transients (e.g, with a water sensor if some
| water splashes onto it or something).

I have, but I don't remember the circumstances or the result

...I've been
using dmp for 12 years so I've probably messed with every feature.

|
| > Partition - 1
| > Area - Perimeter
|
| My alarm also offers the option of "-". What does that mean?
| Also, in your setup is it really irrelevant what you use for "Area"
| since your setup for DO/DS is the same as AO/AS?

- means nothing is in that entry.

|
| >
| > DO Message - Alarm
| > DO Output - 0
| > DO Output Action - None
| > DS Message - Trouble
|
| I'm not sure I understand what "Trouble" means and how it is used here.
| Isn't the normal, untriggered condition "DS/AS" -- if so why do you
| want to signal a "Trouble" condition when the circuit is shorted
| (appropriately).

I just want a trouble sounder, not the siren...and I don't want to dispatch
PD, I want CS to follow special instructions for a trouble on this zone.

| Or does DS mean that there is no series resistor and the circuit is
| fully shorted?
|
|
| > DS Output - None
| > DS Output Action - Steady
| > AO Message - Alarm
| > AO Output - 0
| > AO Output Action - Steady
| > AS Message - Trouble
| > AS Output - 0
| > AS Output Action - Steady
| >
| > The output stuff is meaningless, their for controlling relays.
|
| If "AO Output" and "AO Output Action" refer to the relay status, how
| does one specify when and whether the alarm itself is triggered?
|
| > Supervisory may work for you too, but it won't clear until the
room/refrig
| > goes back to normal temp...which may be annoying.
|
| Isn't that a "feature"? Don't you want to know that there still is a
| problem until it is corrected?

Possibly, but it would be really annoying for the homeowner to have to
completely dry up all the water or wait for the refrig to cool down before
they could shut up the sounder. In some situations yes...like maybe a
commercial freezer.
|
| Thanks
|
| >
| > I've done these several different ways...mostly by experimenting

| >

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Suggestions for (Low) Temperature and Water alarms

Suggestions for (Low) Temperature and Water alarms

blueman

Robert L Bass

Crash Gordon

Frank Olson

Crash Gordon

Robert L Bass

Crash Gordon

Robert L Bass

blueman

Robert L Bass

blueman

Crash Gordon

Crash Gordon

blueman

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