S
Saul
Whats in that box with the wheels? Looks interesting
Whats in that box with the wheels? Looks interesting
Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:
1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.
I would install the Transfer Switch as close to the Main Panel as
possible. Typically, adjacent with a 1 1/2" Dia. nipple in between,
as you can run the new wires from the MeterBase into the Main Panel,
and thru the nipple to the Transfer Switch, and then from the Transfer
Switch back to the Main Breaker. This keeps the runs short, and makes
for centrally located Home Power Managment, as you may want to drop
some of the loads offline in the Main Panel when running OffGrid on
the Genset.
You can use any UL 600V Insulated wire, of the appropriate size for the
current, that suits you. It is the Insulation Rating that the Inspector
will be looking at. Typically Welding Cable isn't rated at 600V, so you
may have to find a suitable wire that has the UL Insulation Rating
approprite to the service.
Ignoramus16089 said:Just what formula do you use to conclude that a particular generator
is "undersized".
Let me give you some examples of load in my house
- 220v kitchen range/stove, 50A breaker, probably 40A use under
certain conditions
- 28A central air conditioner
- 15A window A/C (115V)
- Various motors, I would say 10a max at 220v. (refrigerators, gas
water heater, freezer, sump pump)
- Lighting, a lot of compact fluorescent, but not all, could go up to
2 kW (say 10A 220v)
- Spa heater, 15a 115v
- computers and TVs, 1 kW
That adds up, unless I am mistaken, to roughly 23 kW. That would be
almost "worst case" electricity use, not counting my welder and
compressor or other possible loads.
Would you say that a generator below 23 kW is "undersized" for my
house?
Or would you use some common sense and recognize that electricity
usage could be reduced by taking just a few steps, such as turning off
the A/C units, not using the kitchen range and turning off the pool
heater.
If the latter is the case and you recognize the fallacy of wanting to
power everything at once, then look at my power usage under the
following conditions:
1) No A/C use
2) No kitchen range use
3) no hot tub heater use
4) Use of half of other loads (fewer TVs, computers etc)
5) not all motors running always at once
I hopet hat you agree that the above is quite reasonable for emergency
situations.
Then energy use comes to, if I did not make a mistake, 3-4 kW.
My generator is honest 7 kW. That means that it can produce 7 kW
continuously, stopping for oil changes and other maintenance only, as
a prime power unit. It is not some Home Depot "7kW peak load" POS.
That leaves plenty of extra power from my 7 kW generator. Enough to
probably run one small burner on the kitchen range, or a window A/C
(this one is more questionable), a lot of light, furnace and water
heater, computers, TVs, tools etc.
So. Can you explain why you called my generator "undersized".
Thanks.
i
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163
Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.
I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.
Here's a picture of our power meter:
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/z02_Installed/dscf0209.jpg
I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.
The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).
The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.
What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?
I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.
I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.
I am not telling you to get a generator big enough to power everything in
your house at once. I am saying that having all that load connected to the
generator and relying on someone (which might not be you) to turn breakers
off to control the load is not good engineering design. Good design is
putting your emergency circuits in a transfer switch, in some reasonable
relation to the size of the generator.
In rec.crafts.metalworking Ignoramus4235 said:Remember that there is a breaker right on the generator. So nothing
terrible would happen if it became overloaded. It would just turn
off.
I looked at available transfer switches that switch several circuits
only, they do not do what I want. I have no interest in continuing
this discussion.
My meter has been without a seal for several years now . Called the powerno said:Where I live I dont need to call them to shut off my power I just
pull the metor out just outside my back door.
I called them to let them know that there was no seal on it and that
the glass was cracked he said "so what" None of the metors in this
town have seal wierd eh!
Made replacing my main panel alot easier.
In rec.crafts.metalworking Dale Eastman said:Iggy has been on alt.energy.homepower for over a year that I
recollect. He asks for opinions, not "help". He is excellent on
Is this 200 amps at 120, or 200 amps at 240? You have 240 service, but are
the amps 200 from hot to hot, or the sum of each leg to neutral? 200 amps
at 240 is 48kw. I question because 48kw is vastly in excess of typical
residential power requirements.
Consider the possibility that the next size down the 100 amp unit,
is the fit. The 200 amp unit is a HUGE box! It's designed to switch
a 48kw hot load.
We have a master disconnect. The transfer switch is located between the
master disconnect and the main panel. We use a second transfer switch to
disconnect optional loads, and shunt them directly to a 2nd generator.
Well you could put in a sub panel and put the transfer switch in theIgnoramus20689 said:i
Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.
Well you could put in a sub panel and put the transfer switch in the
feed to the sub panel
I have been following this tread because I am thinking of going the
sub panel rout. The down side is you have to decide which circuits
will be on the sub panel. I my case its only the well. the outlets
in the kitchen and the lights in the kitchen.
You have identified the correct switch. A two hundred ampere main
breaker results in the need for a two hundred ampere transfer assembly.
Be advised that a main breaker interlock kit will achieve the same
result at far lower cost. What brand and model is your main breaker
enclosure; such as your main distribution panel?
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163
Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.
I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.
Here's a picture of our power meter:
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/z02_Installed/dscf0209.jpg
I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.
The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).
The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.
What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?
I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.
I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.
i
P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.
Ignoramus16089 wrote:
I'm afraid you are out of luck on a transfer interlock kit as ITE/Gould
is no longer manufactured.
If you install a Square D feed through lug panel ahead of your existing
panel and add a generator interlock kit to it you will still come out
cheaper than the full sized transfer switch for the materials the labor
will be similar.
If you must use SquareD stuff, at least stick with the Homeline line
which is ALMOST "Industrial Interchange" size. (The bus stabs are
slightly different, but you can make others fit in a pinch.)
If SquareD ever goes belly up, the proprietary bus QO stuff will be
a problem to get replacements for.
I perceive you are a fan of so called universal breakers. Are you aware
that the use of any breaker that is not laboratory listed or recognized
for the panel in which it is installed is a violation of the US NEC.
The use of so called interchangeable breakers in another manufactures
panel is usually done in violation of the local electrical code. This
is why professional electricians often carry the more expensive Thomas &
Bettes breakers to use in universal panels because Thomas & Bettes is
one of the few manufacturers to have their breakers tested for use in
other manufacturers panels.