Steps for installing a transfer switch

[Ignoramus16089]

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/z02_Installed/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.

 

[Ignoramus16089]

<snip>

If you don't have ready access to the cable which leads from the meter
to the main breaker, or if the cable isn't long enough to cut and wire
into the transfer switch, you are going to need to get inside the meter
to fit a new cable. Which means getting the electricity board's permission.

I expect that I will need to get inside the meter, and will get proper
permission.

I would be inclined to get a professional electrician to do this. You
also need to make sure that the transfer switch is suitable for mounting
outside, if you intend to do so.

I believe that that one is, but I will call HF or Cutler-Hammer to
make sure.

i

 

[Ignoramus16089]

the transfer switch is a indoor one.

its better to have it inside to minimize kids messing around

I thought that I could place a padlock on it.

install new cable from meter to transfer switch, then new cable to
existing main panel.

I will double check how this T.S. is supposed to be used, I will call
C-H tomorrow. (indoor vs outdoor rating and padlock/lockout availability)

How large a generator are you planning? if your from houston with that
13KW unit you might as well get a automatic transfer switch.......

I have a 7 kW Onan DJE generator,

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

i

 

[john]

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/z02_Installed/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.

The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment, and
leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you will have
to have the electric company disconnect the power while you put the
switch in the leads from the meter.

If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.

I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John

 

[Christopher Tidy]

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/z02_Installed/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

<snip>

If you don't have ready access to the cable which leads from the meter
to the main breaker, or if the cable isn't long enough to cut and wire
into the transfer switch, you are going to need to get inside the meter
to fit a new cable. Which means getting the electricity board's permission.

I would be inclined to get a professional electrician to do this. You
also need to make sure that the transfer switch is suitable for mounting
outside, if you intend to do so.

Best wishes,

Chris

 

[Bruce in Alaska]

I expect that I will need to get inside the meter, and will get proper
permission.


I believe that that one is, but I will call HF or Cutler-Hammer to
make sure.

i

Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:

1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.

Bruce in alaska

 

[You]

Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined

Anyone who would replace a Main Breaker with the Meter (Power still on)
still inplace, is either CRAZY, or STUPID..... which one are you???

 

[Ignoramus16089]

Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

My panel is by ITE Gould. (which I think is compatible with
homeline).

There is a company interlockkit.com, but I do not like their product,
personally.

i

 

[Ignoramus16089]

The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment,
and leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you
will have to have the electric company disconnect the power while
you put the switch in the leads from the meter.

Yes, that's what I want. Everything on the switch.

If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.

I do not want that. I want the entire house on the generator/transfer
switch, I would simply not use certain loads that are too heavy for
the generator (like central A/C).

I have a decent generator that can power my entire house if I turn off
A/C, pool heater, and use the electric kitchen range very sparingly.

Why should I shortchange myself.

Like I said in my original post, I am not interested in a transfer
switch for a few circuits.

i

 

[no one that you know]

Where I live I dont need to call them to shut off my power I just pull the
metor out just outside my back door.
I called them to let them know that there was no seal on it and that the
glass was cracked he said "so what" None of the metors in this town have
seal wierd eh!
Made replacing my main panel alot easier.

 

[Ignoramus16089]

Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:

1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.

Bruce, thanks. Couple questions.

Would you say that the better place for T.S. is inside, as someone
else suggested, rather than outside?

Can i use [more flexible and easier to work with] properly sized
welding wire?

i

 

[Ignoramus16089]

Iggy, instead of an automatic transfer switch, we put in a manual one
(i.e. just a big, properly enclosed knife switch setup).

yep, that's exactly what I want, and that's what the switch that I
mentioned in my original post, does.

Manual control
(if you are at home) is pretty easy, and I wonder what kind of erroneous
responses you can get out of an automatic setup.

I agree 100%. I would not install an automatic transfer switch in my
worst nightmare.

Our generator is (I think) 7.5kW, it works very nicely to run our house
on the odd occasion we need it. It takes over the panel (via the big
switch) and feeds the whole house, we just take care not to overload
it.

Exactly my plan. Plus I am planning on sharing this with my neighbors,
so that they can run some fridges and furnaces.

i

 

[Ignoramus16089]

Putting everything on an undersized generator is just bad design and
possibly hazardous. This is one Iggy should leave to a professional, IMHO.

Just what formula do you use to conclude that a particular generator
is "undersized".

Let me give you some examples of load in my house

- 220v kitchen range/stove, 50A breaker, probably 40A use under
certain conditions

- 28A central air conditioner

- 15A window A/C (115V)

- Various motors, I would say 10a max at 220v. (refrigerators, gas
water heater, freezer, sump pump)

- Lighting, a lot of compact fluorescent, but not all, could go up to
2 kW (say 10A 220v)

- Spa heater, 15a 115v
- computers and TVs, 1 kW

That adds up, unless I am mistaken, to roughly 23 kW. That would be
almost "worst case" electricity use, not counting my welder and
compressor or other possible loads.

Would you say that a generator below 23 kW is "undersized" for my
house?

Or would you use some common sense and recognize that electricity
usage could be reduced by taking just a few steps, such as turning off
the A/C units, not using the kitchen range and turning off the pool
heater.

If the latter is the case and you recognize the fallacy of wanting to
power everything at once, then look at my power usage under the
following conditions:

1) No A/C use
2) No kitchen range use
3) no hot tub heater use
4) Use of half of other loads (fewer TVs, computers etc)
5) not all motors running always at once

I hopet hat you agree that the above is quite reasonable for emergency
situations.

Then energy use comes to, if I did not make a mistake, 3-4 kW.

My generator is honest 7 kW. That means that it can produce 7 kW
continuously, stopping for oil changes and other maintenance only, as
a prime power unit. It is not some Home Depot "7kW peak load" POS.

That leaves plenty of extra power from my 7 kW generator. Enough to
probably run one small burner on the kitchen range, or a window A/C
(this one is more questionable), a lot of light, furnace and water
heater, computers, TVs, tools etc.

So. Can you explain why you called my generator "undersized".

Thanks.

i

 

[John]

Just what formula do you use to conclude that a particular generator
is "undersized".

Let me give you some examples of load in my house

- 220v kitchen range/stove, 50A breaker, probably 40A use under
certain conditions

- 28A central air conditioner

- 15A window A/C (115V)

- Various motors, I would say 10a max at 220v. (refrigerators, gas
water heater, freezer, sump pump)

- Lighting, a lot of compact fluorescent, but not all, could go up to
2 kW (say 10A 220v)

- Spa heater, 15a 115v
- computers and TVs, 1 kW

That adds up, unless I am mistaken, to roughly 23 kW. That would be
almost "worst case" electricity use, not counting my welder and
compressor or other possible loads.

Would you say that a generator below 23 kW is "undersized" for my
house?

Or would you use some common sense and recognize that electricity
usage could be reduced by taking just a few steps, such as turning off
the A/C units, not using the kitchen range and turning off the pool
heater.

If the latter is the case and you recognize the fallacy of wanting to
power everything at once, then look at my power usage under the
following conditions:

1) No A/C use
2) No kitchen range use
3) no hot tub heater use
4) Use of half of other loads (fewer TVs, computers etc)
5) not all motors running always at once

I hopet hat you agree that the above is quite reasonable for emergency
situations.

Then energy use comes to, if I did not make a mistake, 3-4 kW.

My generator is honest 7 kW. That means that it can produce 7 kW
continuously, stopping for oil changes and other maintenance only, as
a prime power unit. It is not some Home Depot "7kW peak load" POS.

That leaves plenty of extra power from my 7 kW generator. Enough to
probably run one small burner on the kitchen range, or a window A/C
(this one is more questionable), a lot of light, furnace and water
heater, computers, TVs, tools etc.

So. Can you explain why you called my generator "undersized".

Thanks.

i

If one of the higher hp motors comes on line with a good load already on
the generator, it will puke.

John

 

[Ignoramus16089]

If one of the higher hp motors comes on line with a good load already on
the generator, it will puke.

The highest HP motor in my house is the sump pump motor, 1/2 HP, and
it is one of the harder starting ones if there is water in the sump
pump's pipe.

If the rest of the loads use up, say, 4 kw, and the pump requires 4
times its rated power to start up, that adds up to 4000+350*4 = 5,400
watts, not a big deal.

If we deal with numbers, it becomes relatively apparent that 7 kW is
plenty for a house that is not trying to produce a christmas light
extravaganza and uses NG for heating.

As I said, I already did run the house on this generator.

i

 

[Don Bruder]

yep, that's exactly what I want, and that's what the switch that I
mentioned in my original post, does.



I agree 100%. I would not install an automatic transfer switch in my
worst nightmare.

Y'know, I recall a post someplace (I'll be dipped if I can recall where)
about doing the "100% manual, total-switchover" thing. Let's see if
memory serves me -

Wire generator to appropriate-sized box containing proper amperage power
socket.

Wire meter side to an identical-but-separate box/socket nearby.

Wire house side to appropriate-sized box with a pigtail ending in a
single plug that matches the two sockets, placed so that the plug can
easily be plugged into either socket.

Grid operation: The house pigtail is plugged into the meter socket.

Generator operation: The house pigtail is pulled out of the meter socket
and plugged into the generator socket.

Seems to me that would constitute absolutely failsafe generator
isolation/switching for "Real Cheap", and should still be kosher to
inspectors, assuming proper wire sizes/sockets/plug/etc. go into the
work.

I also remember reading about a neighborhood "emergency power co-op"
that had many of the houses set up in a simliar way, with the special
purpose of keeping things cold/warm. A special FFF - "Fridge, Freezer &
Furnace" circuit ran out to a setup as described. Normal operation had
that circuit plugged into a dedicated box off the breaker panel. During
an extended outage, a shared generator with a custom pigtail to a socket
matching the house plugs made the rounds - A couple hours at each place
kept everything frozen proper and/or warmed up the house.

Exactly my plan. Plus I am planning on sharing this with my neighbors,
so that they can run some fridges and furnaces.

EEP!!!!

RUN AWAY!

You're setting yourself up for a complete disaster if you try that
action! You *DON'T* want to be dinking around running extension cords to
neighbors when you're running off a genny - The losses in the cords will
eat you (and your generator - and if things go completely wrong, one or
more houses...) alive unless you're in a rowhouse/apartment building
type situation. (and even then, you're dicey)

 

[Ignoramus4235]

There's another issue (in agreement with Iggy) that hasn't been
mentioned, fuel consumption. An "oversized" generator will consume more
fuel at the same load than one sized correctly to the load. Generators
aren't cheap to run.

Yes.

According to my very approximate calculations, I store fuel for
approximately a week of running my generator nonstop, and a month of
running it only sparingly (with about enough time to keep the house
warm in winter).

With a larger generator, I would need a lot more fuel to be stored,
which would become a practical issue. I think that while 7 kW is
adequate, the perfect generator size for my house would be 10 kW
(which would let me run central A/C in summer), but, that Onan DJE was
available at the right price ($600) and other gensets were not
available at the right price. I gotta work with what I have.

i

 

[Moe]

According to my very approximate calculations, I store fuel for
approximately a week of running my generator nonstop, and a month of
running it only sparingly (with about enough time to keep the house
warm in winter).

how many gallons do you store? Any issues with the containers being subjected to heat
or fuel dilution (you use Sta-Bil?)?

(which would let me run central A/C in summer)

actually, the solution to central A/C is very simple. we live in a hurricane area and
use 2-compressor,2-stage heat pump systems. during a non-power event the system runs
exclusively on the smaller compressor which consumes just 1200 watts of power and
while not able to cool house to 72F it is able to maintain 78F on a 92F outside temp
day.

 

[Ignoramus4235]

how many gallons do you store? Any issues with the containers being subjected to heat
or fuel dilution (you use Sta-Bil?)?

8 jerry cans, each is 5 gallons. The jerry cans are in plastic storage
bins, to prevent contamination if these cans leak. I have not yet put
any sta-bil in them, but I will do that shortly. The stuff that I will
use is not called sta-bil, it is some other compound that is well
regarded for diesel fuel, its name escapes me at the moment. Heat is
not a big issue, as these cans are stored in the bushes with plenty of
shadow.

actually, the solution to central A/C is very simple. we live in a hurricane area and
use 2-compressor,2-stage heat pump systems. during a non-power event the system runs
exclusively on the smaller compressor which consumes just 1200 watts of power and
while not able to cool house to 72F it is able to maintain 78F on a 92F outside temp
day.

That's very nice, I asked our HVAC guy about doing same, but we cannot
do that with existing furnace and replacing a furnace seems not to be
worthwhile.

i

 

[Ignoramus4235]

Square D makes generator back feed interlock kits for several of their
panels. I installed on in the new QO panel I recently installed.

http://ecatalog.squared.com/techlib/docdetail.cfm?oid=0900892680126e4f

Pete, your link did not work for me, sorry. If Homeline is a brand of
Square D, I will just call them on the phone.

i