Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Speaker overload (tweeter) protection using bulbs (repost)

P

Phil Allison

"Eeysore = incorrigible pommy fuckwit TROLL "


Yes they are.


** 100% WRONG.

Your autism is showing - big time.

CROSSPOSTING IS AN ABOMINATION !!

Stevenson is the BIGGEST TROLL on Usenet





..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Eeysore = incorrigible pommy fuckwit TROLL "


Yes they are.


** 100% WRONG.

Your autism is showing - big time.

CROSSPOSTING IS AN ABOMINATION !!

Stevenson is the BIGGEST TROLL on Usenet





..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Eeysore = incorrigible pommy fuckwit TROLL "


Yes they are.


** 100% WRONG.

Your autism is showing - big time.

CROSSPOSTING IS AN ABOMINATION !!

Stevenson is the BIGGEST TROLL on Usenet





..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Eeysore = incorrigible pommy fuckwit TROLL "


Yes they are.


** 100% WRONG.

Your autism is showing - big time.

CROSSPOSTING IS AN ABOMINATION !!

Stevenson is the BIGGEST TROLL on Usenet





..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Eeysore = incorrigible pommy fuckwit TROLL "


Yes they are.


** 100% WRONG.

Your autism is showing - big time.

CROSSPOSTING IS AN ABOMINATION !!

Stevenson is the BIGGEST TROLL on Usenet





..... Phil
 
P

Phil Allison

"Eeysore = incorrigible pommy fuckwit TROLL "


Yes they are.


** 100% WRONG.

Your autism is showing - big time.

CROSSPOSTING IS AN ABOMINATION !!

Stevenson is the BIGGEST TROLL on Usenet





..... Phil
 
J

Jamie

George's Pro Sound Company said:
the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...


OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you burn
out a speaker

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage speakers,
its overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat with
a spotlessly clean signal as well
Really?, I'll make sure I don't do business with you.

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation, even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.

I'll say no more.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
 
L

liquidator

Dave Plowman (News) said:
Suggest you try driving a DC coupled amp into heavy clipping and see the
results to speakers which can nominally handle its output.

You would have flunked electronics 101.

Clipping and DC are not the same thing. That argument was selltled years
ago- only those with minimal knowledge advance it today.

BTW have driben amps to clipping on the bench hundreds of times in the last
40+ years.

Your problem is you are trying to talk down to somebody who knows a lot more
than you.

Go learn enough to argue then come back..
 
J

Jamie

liquidator said:
You would have flunked electronics 101.

Clipping and DC are not the same thing. That argument was selltled years
ago- only those with minimal knowledge advance it today.

BTW have driben amps to clipping on the bench hundreds of times in the last
40+ years.

Your problem is you are trying to talk down to somebody who knows a lot more
than you.

Go learn enough to argue then come back..
Any one have some hip boots ? my normal boots aren't tall enough!


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
 
L

liquidator

Jamie said:
George's Pro Sound Company said:
the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...


OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you burn
out a speaker

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage speakers,
its overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat with
a spotlessly clean signal as well
Really?, I'll make sure I don't do business with you.

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation, even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.


Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

George doesn't always word things the best way, but he knows a lot.

Speakers are rated for average power, over time.

Look at the area under a square wave- it is a lot larger than the area under
a sine wave. What that means is more power for a longer time. What is
happening is the AMOUNT of power is being increased to a speaker for a
longer TIME.

Plain and simple- that is more power. It is the amout of power over time
that kills the speaker...it can only shed heat so fast, put power in faster
than that it will burn up.

Simple..just use a bigger amp...and drive it to peak, you can blow the
speaker quickly.

Use a smaller amp, and drive it to its full power for longer, and the
speaker will blow, assuming the amp is big enough to put out that much
average power.
Either way- it is power that is the culprit. The amount of energy being put
into the speaker...put it in faster than the speaker can sink it, you will
have thermal failure.

It is not DC as people who skimmed one book and didn't understand it want to
insist.

Make the amp small enough, the speaker can handle any waveform. Make the amp
big enough and the speaker will fail instantly with any input at all...then
there are a million scenarios in between.

I disagreee with George, I use big amps and don't blow speaker, conversely
people are blowing their 100 watt speakers with "50 watt" amplifiers.

Take a look at an EV speaker rating...xxx watss with pink noise for xxx
hours.

Change the signal, the speaker's rating changes. Incraes the time, the
speaker's rating changes.

Square waves or severe clipping is more power for a longer time. That is all
it is.

Not DC, not any big mystery, it's a measurable phenomenon.

I do agree with George that sizing amps and sopeakers reduces chance for
failure. But many touring companies use big amps for horns also, larger amps
tend to hold their resale better, from a business standpoint make more sense
to me.

Here's a semi pro example-

Loot at the price difference between a Behringer 2500 and a 1500. Not
much...but come resale time you will do a lot better with the 2500..

Business is business, I buy bigger amps. your mileage may vary.
 
L

liquidator

Jamie said:
Any one have some hip boots ? my normal boots aren't tall enough!


Jeez- another idiot to killfiter- where are you pointing out what I said was
wrong?

No where- simply because you don't know enough.
 
L

liquidator

Dave Plowman (News) said:
Err, then why are you crossposting to other groups?

However doesn't 'your' group get read by equipment hirers etc?

And to suggest no pro equipment ever gets abused by pros is pie in the
sky...
Hey, even Pros get abused by other Pros...

Dave we've gooten off on the wrong foot, but what happens is Eeyore starts
these damn crossposts.

He has been asked a number of times to stop.

He's a nice fellow but he keeps staring into space and mumbling
"crossposting is good".

What it does is throw groups of people together who don't know each
other...it ALWAYS wstarts fights .PERIOD.

I wish Graham (Eeyore) would stops as he's been asked to- but he's convinced
he's right, and no amount of logic is gonna change that..
 
J

Jamie

liquidator said:
George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a
level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...


OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you
burn
out a speaker

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage
speakers,
its overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat
with
a spotlessly clean signal as well
Really?, I'll make sure I don't do business with you.

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation, even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.



Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

George doesn't always word things the best way, but he knows a lot.

Speakers are rated for average power, over time.

Look at the area under a square wave- it is a lot larger than the area under
a sine wave. What that means is more power for a longer time. What is
happening is the AMOUNT of power is being increased to a speaker for a
longer TIME.

Plain and simple- that is more power. It is the amout of power over time
that kills the speaker...it can only shed heat so fast, put power in faster
than that it will burn up.

Simple..just use a bigger amp...and drive it to peak, you can blow the
speaker quickly.

Use a smaller amp, and drive it to its full power for longer, and the
speaker will blow, assuming the amp is big enough to put out that much
average power.
Either way- it is power that is the culprit. The amount of energy being put
into the speaker...put it in faster than the speaker can sink it, you will
have thermal failure.

It is not DC as people who skimmed one book and didn't understand it want to
insist.

Make the amp small enough, the speaker can handle any waveform. Make the amp
big enough and the speaker will fail instantly with any input at all...then
there are a million scenarios in between.

I disagreee with George, I use big amps and don't blow speaker, conversely
people are blowing their 100 watt speakers with "50 watt" amplifiers.

Take a look at an EV speaker rating...xxx watss with pink noise for xxx
hours.

Change the signal, the speaker's rating changes. Incraes the time, the
speaker's rating changes.

Square waves or severe clipping is more power for a longer time. That is all
it is.

Not DC, not any big mystery, it's a measurable phenomenon.

I do agree with George that sizing amps and sopeakers reduces chance for
failure. But many touring companies use big amps for horns also, larger amps
tend to hold their resale better, from a business standpoint make more sense
to me.

Here's a semi pro example-

Loot at the price difference between a Behringer 2500 and a 1500. Not
much...but come resale time you will do a lot better with the 2500..

Business is business, I buy bigger amps. your mileage may vary.
What ever you do think you know as fact, must of come at a great expense
of destroying a lot of electronics.


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
 
L

liquidator

Jamie said:
liquidator said:
George's Pro Sound Company wrote:




the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a
level

where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...


OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you
burn

out a speaker

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage
speakers,

its overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat
with

a spotlessly clean signal as well



Really?, I'll make sure I don't do business with you.

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation, even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.



Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

George doesn't always word things the best way, but he knows a lot.

Speakers are rated for average power, over time.

Look at the area under a square wave- it is a lot larger than the area under
a sine wave. What that means is more power for a longer time. What is
happening is the AMOUNT of power is being increased to a speaker for a
longer TIME.

Plain and simple- that is more power. It is the amout of power over time
that kills the speaker...it can only shed heat so fast, put power in faster
than that it will burn up.

Simple..just use a bigger amp...and drive it to peak, you can blow the
speaker quickly.

Use a smaller amp, and drive it to its full power for longer, and the
speaker will blow, assuming the amp is big enough to put out that much
average power.
Either way- it is power that is the culprit. The amount of energy being put
into the speaker...put it in faster than the speaker can sink it, you will
have thermal failure.

It is not DC as people who skimmed one book and didn't understand it want to
insist.

Make the amp small enough, the speaker can handle any waveform. Make the amp
big enough and the speaker will fail instantly with any input at all...then
there are a million scenarios in between.

I disagreee with George, I use big amps and don't blow speaker, conversely
people are blowing their 100 watt speakers with "50 watt" amplifiers.

Take a look at an EV speaker rating...xxx watss with pink noise for xxx
hours.

Change the signal, the speaker's rating changes. Incraes the time, the
speaker's rating changes.

Square waves or severe clipping is more power for a longer time. That is all
it is.

Not DC, not any big mystery, it's a measurable phenomenon.

I do agree with George that sizing amps and sopeakers reduces chance for
failure. But many touring companies use big amps for horns also, larger amps
tend to hold their resale better, from a business standpoint make more sense
to me.

Here's a semi pro example-

Loot at the price difference between a Behringer 2500 and a 1500. Not
much...but come resale time you will do a lot better with the 2500..

Business is business, I buy bigger amps. your mileage may vary.
What ever you do think you know as fact, must of come at a great expense
of destroying a lot of electronics.

Again showing your gross ignorance.
As a working pro I'm sure I paid more in taxes than you earned.

Welcome to the killfiles as the only total loss I've seen today.

Dont' bother replying, but your juvenile need to will make you do it anyway.
 
E

Eeyore

Doesn't stop the amp having greater than the HF driver's rating !

These days always having 'someone who knows what they're doing' is rare.
And even less likely with a small band starting out. So you need to make
equipment as idiot proof as possible.


Either the amp cannot produce enough wally to damage the speakers or it
can - so the gunshot thing is rubbish. But no speaker is designed to
handle DC for long - which is what you can get from a grossly overloaded
amp. To be certain that DC couldn't wreck the speakers would require a
*much* smaller amp than would otherwise make sense. Or, of course, use an
amp which can't pass DC.

Or ensure the amp you have is fitted with DC 'crowbar' protection such as I
design in.. Or output relays but these can oxidise their contacts degrading the
sound, and if they don't have enough clearance will arc-over on a DC fault.

Correctly designed the lamp should have little effect on the sound as its
cold resistance will be very low. Only when it starts to 'protect' will
the resistance increase.


Why are you using a limiter at all, then?

I think you summed it up pretty well there Dave.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

William said:
the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...

Exceed X max (not difficult with ported cabs) and you can do a lot of damage
to the LF driver too.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

George's Pro Sound Company said:
a amp "can" put out several times it's rated power for a instant, enough to
throw a cone. been there already

UTTER and complete rubbish. If you're referring to the difference between an rms
and peak voltage or power, that's already taken into account in the speaker's
rating. Yes, you can get a bit more out of an amp on toneburst but rarely much
over 1-2dB at the very most. Certainly not for long enough to do any damage.

You're straying into tech territory here George that you don't understand. Stick
to rigging and mixing.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

George's Pro Sound Company said:
William Sommerwerck said:
the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a level
where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no idea
what distortion sounds like...

OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to play
distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you burn
out a speaker

Generally. But not exclusively by far.

Exceeding X max can trash an LF or HF driver without as much as even a
discoloured voice coil. And there are many easy ways to do it.

Graham
 
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