Solid "foam" choices

[Don Y]

Hi George,

Hmm OK I don't know what that is.

<frown> I've seen it in several places, before. Most usually
in equipment/shipping cases for heavy, *dense* objects (stereo
microscope, etc.) where the case doesn't want to be a lot larger
than the item itself.

Here's a pic of me standing on the white foam.
It comes in all sorts of different hardness's and open or closed cells.

OK. The "white stuff" I've seen has been more flexible -- but
probably because it was used in strips instead of sheets (i.e.,
imagine building a frame out of 2x2's of the stuff for a 24"
cube). In any case, it isn't intended to compress -- like
styrofoam isn't intended to compress (nor is the stuff I have).

[Hmmm... maybe I should start searching for "styrofoam" and
see if this is somehow related?]

I should also check with the techs at the local hospital and
see if they can point to a particular vendor that uses lots of
it (then, contact the vendor and hope for a helpful soul)

(Sorry I wore my boots today.. there's an ice storm on the way..
"Be prepared".)

"Ice"? What's that?? :>

(Actually, we're having our first "below freezing" temps of the
year so all the citrus are under covers!)

 

[Don Y]

And a real upholstery supply has PU foam that is that stiff; not just
the squishy stuff. Floral supply has another stiff-foam variant, but
it's generally white or green.

The polyurethane foam is *intended* to be compressible. The
stuff I have (see photo elsewhere) is not. It serves the role that
"molded styrofoam packing materials" served in the past -- hold
something in place.

The floral supply stuff that I am familiar with is brittle and
flimsy.

However, a fully form-fitted stiff solution is also available. Two
sheets of plastic film larger than the case, and a can of spray PU -
Great Stuff (tm) or the like. Spray case, lay film, lay tools, lay film,
spray top of case, close, wait. A few vent holes will make the need to
judge the proper amount of foam slightly less picky - cut off what boils
out. You can even get black, if you want it. DON'T get latex "foam."

This was the first approach I had tried. I've used "Great Stuff"
(it comes in three? different "densities"/expandabilities, IIRC)
to pack things for shipment. Again, "holding something in place".

[I also used it recently to insulate and *secure* some 1" copper
pipes in the hollows of cinder-block posts I'd made -- not wanting
the pipes to be able to *move* left/right yet not able to fasten
each to the *inside* surface of the cinder-block voids! (I've since
discovered a way to do just that ! :< )]

Among the cases that I have is a large one -- probably 3'x2'x1'.
It's sort of like a piece of hard-sided luggage -- wheels, telescoping
"handle", etc. This would be ideal for my electric "breaker"
(think "jack hammer"). Similar to:

<http://www.governmentauctions.org/uploaded_images/jack-774161.JPG>

[I don't have a hand truck to "store" mine (well, I do but it is far
too big to set aside for that role) -- hence the idea of the carrying
case I was trying to make]

This thing is heavy. About 70 pounds -- not counting the
attachments ("bits"). Anything compressible *will* compress
and deform while this is *stored* in it (I don't use this
"instrument of destruction" very often :> Makes me feel
like I'm vibrating for hours afterwards!)

I wrapped the breaker with a plastic sheet (it's almost like
vellum -- not polyethylene). Then, suspended it partially
"submerged" in the case (i.e., so that it wasn't sitting on
the back/bottom of the case). Then, sprayed *under* it with
the canned foam letting it expand *up* to meet the wrapping
around the breaker.

When it was clear that I had enough (almost 3 cans!), I misted the
exposed surface of the foam with water (apparently, helps it cure?
Not sure how but it did make a difference when I used it for the
pipe insulation outdoors!) Then, walked away so not to disturb it.

The next day, noticed the foam had crept up *over* the top of
the breaker. Lesson learned: *suspend* the item by the sheet
that you wrap it with. I.e., so the item creates a convex hull
in the sheet with "(near) vertical sides". So, the only place
for the excess foam to go is over the edge of the case.

But, the real problem was the weight of the breaker had perforated
the sheet and allowed foam to push its way through and muck up
the breaker. Lesson learned: put something soft above the sheet
between it and the item. The contours won't end up as tight but
there's less chance of screws and other edges damaging the sheet!
(probably find a thicker material, as well)

Thankfully, I had lined the *case* with a sheet as well so I was
able to "clean out" the case completely after this attempt.

I've not pursued it any further ($25 for "half" a case means you
want to know its going to work!) especially in light of "how am
I going to handle the attachments 'in the cover'?" It seemed
like a solution that I could *cut* with a knife would be easier
to get right...

 

[Michael Lalonde]

x-no-archive: yes

I've found noise dampening foam to work. It's what they use in music studios
but also works like the carrying cases you mention (the diamond jutted
foam).

Michael Lalonde
Sudbury, Ontario - M&J Mining

"Don Y" wrote in message
Hi,

I have several "cases" that I'd like to convert into
carrying cases for various tools that seem to keep
multiplying around here. (primarily hand tools)

I figure all I need to do is find some reasonably stiff
"foam" in which I can cut holes to set the individual
tools in, then place these in the cases. Not as good
as a case made *specifically* for a particular tool
but a lot better than storing tools in generic cardboard
boxes!

Most of the "foam" I've encountered at craft stores is
just that -- foam. Spongey. It should be easy to
manipulate but I doubt it will offer much support to
the tools once the case is closed and carried off.

[Styrofoam is too "brittle" IMO. But, reasonably "firm"]

The carrying case for one of my LCD projectors has a "foam
filler" that seems perfect. *Looks* like styrofoam
(contrast that with the sort of foam with which you would
stuff a seat cushion) but rubbery-er. And black.

I.e., unlike the "seat cushion foam", it has very little "give"
(just like styrofoam). Unlike styrofoam, it doesn't fall apart
when abused!

Suggestions as to what I could use and where I might find it?

Thx,
--don

 

[Don Y]

Hi Jeff,

Been there, done that. I've done it several ways.

1. Cut up some pink foam insulation board. This stuff that is sold
under various names in various thicknesses.
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=pink+foam+insulation+board>
Make it fit your case, cut out the shape, seal the exposed pink edges
with (insert drum roll) duct tape. If there are any gaps, use
urethane foam in a can (heat leak patch or fence post compound) to
fill the gaps. I think (not sure) that you can seal the edges with
Plati-Dip (spray vinyl):
<http://www.plastidip.com>
<

>

Hmmm... a friend had said "insulation panels" which I took to mean
styrofoam (which is what we put *under* stucco in this part of the
country). I will have to look at this to see how rigid and dense
it is (has to support a fair bit of weight without deformation)

2. Vacuum forming. I place the objects on the vacuum table, cover
with a sheet of plastic, heat, suck, and I get an instant mould. If
you don't want a tight fit, or have a weird shaped object, temporarily
cover it with padding and duct tape.

Might work for smaller things. First thing on my list was an
electric breaker (jackhammer). Kinda on the large side...
(2 ft x 3 ft?)

3. Expanding foam. This is availiable in a variety of forms. For
example:
<http://www.homedepot.com/p/GREAT-ST...acks-Insulating-Foam-Sealant-162848/100003351>
The easiest way to "pack" something is to pour or spray the foam into
a plastic bag. Before it hardens, shove the bag into your case, and
shove your tools into the surface of the plastic while it's still
soft. Keep the top flat by pushing down with a piece of scrap
plywood. For the top part, do the same with another bag sitting
between the first bag and the top of the case. Hint: Tools with
pointed or sharp edges don't work well without additional padding.

That was the approach I initially tried for the breaker (see my
description elsewhere). It didn't go well :< I think the size
and weight made it impractical. Or, at least enough of a deterrent
for me to want to explore other options before returning to that one!

You can cut the excess foam with a hot nichrome wire, or a sharp
blade.

When I've used this for *packing*, I just use a bare hacksaw blade
(for small things) or a fine tooth had saw. The stuff cuts like
butter so you don't really need much to get through it (OTOH,
having a LONG "blade" makes it easier to get a level cut across
the entire top!)

There are YouTube videos on how to handle expanding urethane packing
foam. For example:
<

>

Note: You will make a mess, you will use too much and create a
re-enactment of the blob, and you will get it stuck to something
accidentally. It's a rite of passage for using the stuff and cannot
be avoided.

I'm a big fan of the stuff -- though NOT in its intended application!
(e.g., fiberglass window frames, here. You *don't* use expanding
foam behind their frames as it will warp the frames).

E.g., I ran some water lines above grade *inside* cinder block
hollows and use the foam to hold the pipe in place as well as
insulate it from the weather extremes. Delightfully easy to
apply -- just squirt the stuff in until it starts bulging
out both ends, let cure, trim to length!

 

[Don Y]

Hi Jeff,

Foam (all types) is great in compression, and miserable in tension.
Design your packing accordingly.

Only works well if it doesn't deform under that compression.
Whole point is to make sure the item can't move/shift position.

Practice makes improvement. Like I mumbled, you will make a mess,
etc.

I think it's just such a *large* job and you can't really
man-handle the breaker like you could a smaller item. *It*
decides where it wants to be. *You* arrange other things
*around* it :<

It's a side effect of my never reading the instructions.

Instructions should always be taken as *advisory* -- unless dealing
with high explosives!

It also make rework difficult. I just push in some pink fiberglass
matting to fill in the gaps. It's more work, but it's easier to
change later.

I use backer rod -- imagine extruded foam "ropes" (come in a variety
of diameters).

Thanks. I'll probably steal the idea.

I forgot to mumble something about routed wood cases with green felt
padding. I made some of those cases as presents a few years ago. All
that was needed was a pattern, router, router table, and plenty of
spare time. Probably won't work for a jack hammer.

Actually, *might* work for jack hammer as weight is less of a
concern once you're in the ~80+ pound range! And, as the object
is so large and has such large *features*, you could probably build
up wood blocks cut with a scroll/jig saw instead of having to route
it.

Dunno. This "black foam" sure seems like it's the answer. I
just have to find a vendor who carries it! Got lots of empty
cases that could suddenly see new life given that!

 

[[email protected]]

OK, OK, I like women. Arrest me or something.

So they like male genitalia. Living in SF, you should be familiar
with that fetish.

 

[whit3rd]

[concerned with higher stiffness material]

The stuff I'm looking for is more like styrofoam in appearance and

Well, you can use a molding technique to make a case, shooting
GreatStuff (or similar insulating foam in aerosol cans) into plastic
bags, then molding the plastic bags around your hardware or a model and in your
case (before it sets, it's nicely squishy). Appearance isn't great,
but function is good.

 

[josephkk]

Hi,

I have several "cases" that I'd like to convert into
carrying cases for various tools that seem to keep
multiplying around here. (primarily hand tools)

I figure all I need to do is find some reasonably stiff
"foam" in which I can cut holes to set the individual
tools in, then place these in the cases. Not as good
as a case made *specifically* for a particular tool
but a lot better than storing tools in generic cardboard
boxes!

Most of the "foam" I've encountered at craft stores is
just that -- foam. Spongey. It should be easy to
manipulate but I doubt it will offer much support to
the tools once the case is closed and carried off.

[Styrofoam is too "brittle" IMO. But, reasonably "firm"]

The carrying case for one of my LCD projectors has a "foam
filler" that seems perfect. *Looks* like styrofoam
(contrast that with the sort of foam with which you would
stuff a seat cushion) but rubbery-er. And black.

I.e., unlike the "seat cushion foam", it has very little "give"
(just like styrofoam). Unlike styrofoam, it doesn't fall apart
when abused!

Suggestions as to what I could use and where I might find it?

Thx,
--don

Carve up some exercize (yoga, etc.,) mats?

?-)

 

[Chris]

Hi,



I have several "cases" that I'd like to convert into

carrying cases for various tools that seem to keep

multiplying around here. (primarily hand tools)



I figure all I need to do is find some reasonably stiff

"foam" in which I can cut holes to set the individual

tools in, then place these in the cases. Not as good

as a case made *specifically* for a particular tool

but a lot better than storing tools in generic cardboard

boxes!



Most of the "foam" I've encountered at craft stores is

just that -- foam. Spongey. It should be easy to

manipulate but I doubt it will offer much support to

the tools once the case is closed and carried off.



[Styrofoam is too "brittle" IMO. But, reasonably "firm"]



The carrying case for one of my LCD projectors has a "foam

filler" that seems perfect. *Looks* like styrofoam

(contrast that with the sort of foam with which you would

stuff a seat cushion) but rubbery-er. And black.



I.e., unlike the "seat cushion foam", it has very little "give"

(just like styrofoam). Unlike styrofoam, it doesn't fall apart

when abused!



Suggestions as to what I could use and where I might find it?



Thx,

--don

HDPE (polyethylene) Foam?

 

[Paul E Bennett]

Hi,

I have several "cases" that I'd like to convert into
carrying cases for various tools that seem to keep
multiplying around here. (primarily hand tools)

I figure all I need to do is find some reasonably stiff
"foam" in which I can cut holes to set the individual
tools in, then place these in the cases. Not as good
as a case made *specifically* for a particular tool
but a lot better than storing tools in generic cardboard
boxes!

Most of the "foam" I've encountered at craft stores is
just that -- foam. Spongey. It should be easy to
manipulate but I doubt it will offer much support to
the tools once the case is closed and carried off.

[Styrofoam is too "brittle" IMO. But, reasonably "firm"]

The carrying case for one of my LCD projectors has a "foam
filler" that seems perfect. *Looks* like styrofoam
(contrast that with the sort of foam with which you would
stuff a seat cushion) but rubbery-er. And black.

I.e., unlike the "seat cushion foam", it has very little "give"
(just like styrofoam). Unlike styrofoam, it doesn't fall apart
when abused!

Suggestions as to what I could use and where I might find it?

Thx,
--don

Have a look at Depron <http://www.depron.co.uk/>. You should find it in the
modelling shops easy enough.

--
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Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://[email protected]>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

 

[josephkk]

The wood blocks is what I was about to suggest. That's similar to the
spot welded steel supports found in steel most large electric power
tool boxes. I've built similar shipping cases for my father's
industrial sewing machines using the same principle. The problem is
that with a wooden box, also known as a crate, using individual
supports concentrates the load in a small area. If the sides of the
crate are not up to the task, a shock load could easily smash the
support through the side of the crate. That's exactly what happened
with some of my early crates, when the shipping gorillas tossed it off
the loading dock. I also had a rocker arm assembly shipped to me with
one end of the crate blown out.

All that changes with the invention of expanding foam. Instead of
concentrating the load on the supports, the foam distributes the load
over the sides of the crate. Impact damage is much less and less
sturdy crates can be utilized. In other words, expanding foam is
better than carpentry.

Hmmmm. This brings up the idea of a layered approach. Inner case of
felt padded wood supports. Next layer is a full plywood hinged or split
closed layer. Third level is expanding foam. Final layer is the outer
case.

Just an idea.

?-)