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Sizing Mosfet Gate Resistors

J

Jim Thompson

Hello Jim,


Can Spice also show you the location and size of the crater that
develops when it "needs to vent"? Happened recently. A volcano appeared
on the SOT23 package, a wee puff and then a stench wafted through the
room. Miraculously the device was still working to some extent.

Actually, the latest version of PSpice has a "smoke" function.

My feeling is, if you need it, you shouldn't be "designing" circuits.

However I have created some esoteric macros to check situations in
these recent ultra-small-feature-size processes... like gate SOA ;-)

As for "craters", I've done that many times ;-)

I used to schedule my "explosions" during visits by the sales
people... just to keep them the hell away ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jim said:
QED: Eeyore has been proven incompetent ;-)


You needed proof?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jim said:
I don't know that I'd describe Cin as "non-linear", but you have a
point. There is a region where the gate "eats" charge, but doesn't
change voltage. I suspect you can analyze the power dissipated in a
far simpler fashion than you suggest.

...Jim Thompson

Well I don't know how it gets any simpler, the Pavg is 1/3 Pmax times
the transition to switching period ratio, that's easy to remember. For
example, if your SPICE or IBIS modeling indicates that 200ns Tr/Tf are
well beyond reality, the gate supply is 15V, and other considerations
indicate a Rg=10 ohm is satisfactory, then at F=100KHz you have
Pmax=22.5W and Pavg= (1/3)*22.5*(0.4/10)=300mW. Use a 1/2W.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Joerg wrote...
The least fragile were grampa's old carbon resistors.
They could take a punch.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. They're pretty expensive
nowadays, but we maintain a full inventory: It's a little
surprising how much of my work relies on using them.
Unfortunately not anymore. I got that data from Beyschlag (now Vishay)
and similar data from AVX for ceramic caps because we were stressing
some of those as well. Both companies were excellent in furnishing
data beyond what's in the spec sheets.

Welwyn (now a part of TT electronics, like IRC) also has good
pulse-withstanding chip resistors, with good data, as does IRC
for that matter.
The problem has subsided a bit because we don't have to "beat FETs
over the head" anymore to get performance. But it'll come back with
the migration to 0402 and smaller because everything has to be the
size of an iPod now.

SFAICT the reduction in MOSFET Ciss for a given current-handling
capability amounts to only about a factor two over the years, or
maybe a bit more in some special cases. Or are you thinking of
a reduction in the gate-drive voltage, with logic-level MOSFETs?
 
J

Joerg

Hello Win,
Yes, that's what I had in mind. They're pretty expensive
nowadays, but we maintain a full inventory: It's a little
surprising how much of my work relies on using them.

When I was a kid I scavenged lots of parts, including resistors, from
tube sets put out on the curb on bulk waste days. In Europe they used to
have those several times a year and it's a field day for "scavengers"
like I used to be. Finding a tuner with two AF239 felt like finding a
gold nugget. But I also kept all these resistors to this day. In terms
of stability not much beats a carbon resistor that has aged for 50 years.

Keeping this old stuff has saved the bacon a few times. When 1.35V
mercury batteries were outlawed a Ge diode was about the only device
that allowed retooling a camera to 1.55V cells. The alternative would
have been an expensive 2-3 point re-alignment at a specialty shop.
Welwyn (now a part of TT electronics, like IRC) also has good
pulse-withstanding chip resistors, with good data, as does IRC
for that matter.

Thanks! Good to know.
SFAICT the reduction in MOSFET Ciss for a given current-handling
capability amounts to only about a factor two over the years, or
maybe a bit more in some special cases. Or are you thinking of
a reduction in the gate-drive voltage, with logic-level MOSFETs?

Actually both. But it was more than that. In the 80's we had to make do
with a rather small selection. Very little granularity which meant we
often had to select a FET that was way too large but the next smaller
one would have caused field failures. HV BJTs weren't an option because
they ony made them for specific markets and the video transistors that
could stomach the voltage were just a wee bit too slow.

Today's FET selection feels like the all-you-can-eat buffet at Sizzler's.
 
T

Terry Given

legg said:
Using total gate charge (including reverse transfer) is as much as
it's probably worth, even though this is a nominal value and has to be
factored for drain voltage.

thats all I do. in conjunction with not pushing parts too hard.
If thee are other sources of drain voltage movement, they add further
charges to the burden.

RL

Cheers
Terry
 
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