reliability of Pioneer plasma sets

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trash. Aside from that factor, countries within the EU have a mandate to
recycle any electronic equipment. And so it all starts again, with shipping,
dismantling, recycling and all of the processes and workers which that
involves.

The stuff is usually just crushed and, maybe, if you're lucky, not treated
as hazardous waste but indeed post-processed to recover some of the raw
materials.

 

[Arfa Daily]

If someone doesn't see it, have them looking at a car with LED
turn-signals and compare the result to looking at a car with incandescent
turn-signals. They will see the difference.

People keep mentioning car bulbs, but we are comparing apples and oranges
here, based on the fact that they are both fruit.

One of the reasons that a car bulb is slow to reach full output, is that the
filament has to be made thick and robust for enhanced reliability and
failure proofing from vibration. That makes it have substantial thermal
inertia, so much so that you can indeed see it hot up. On the other hand,
high voltage domestic lightbulbs have no such constraints on their
filaments, as they are not going on and off all the time like a brake light
or indicator, and are not subject to vibration in normal use. This results
in the manufacturers being able to design them with a much more delicate
filament, with the result that, to all intents and purposes, the ramp up to
full output is 'instantaneous'.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

The stuff is usually just crushed and, maybe, if you're lucky, not treated
as hazardous waste but indeed post-processed to recover some of the raw
materials.

All of which makes a mockery of the EU WEEE directive, treatment of
hazardous wastes directives, and recycling in general ... Just a load more
EU eco-bollox really !

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

Probably because you've been accustomed or have adapted to ordinary
flourescent lamps, as found in offices, public buildings, and most
commercial establishments interested in saving on the cost of
electricity. It does take a while as I vaguely recall complaining
about the same thing when faced with a flourescent desk lamp at home.
I also recall that there was a similar backlash going from gas lamps
to electric. Given sufficient exposure and time, methinks you could
adapter to CFL bulbs.


I also had to adapt to reading and working using CFL bulbs. I have a
"pole lamp" with 4 screw in lamp sockets. I started with all 4 as
incandescent bulbs. I slowly replaced the incandescent bulbs with CFL
bulbs. It took about 2 years, but I now have all CFL bulbs, and am
fully adjusted to their color temperature.


Dream on. The efficiency police are active in Europe:
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/3174452/Traditional-lightbulbs-banned-by-EU.html>

Yes Jeff, I'm fully aware of all this eco-bollox nonsense with
incandescents, but as far as I am aware, it doesn't affect halogens for
which there are no direct replacements, at this point in time. The G9 bulb
is about the size of a projector lamp or small headlamp bulb, and nothing
else would fit in a socket intended for one. Many many ceiling light
fittings this side of the pond are now 'decorative' design pieces as well as
being functional, and these invariably use bulbs like the G9 or similar pea
types in a halogen format, so unless they are going to render everyone's
modern light fittings obsolete, including ones that are on sale right now, I
can't see how they can ban this type of bulb.

see

http://www.focusdiy.co.uk/bin/venda...pellcorrect=1&datasource=focusen&setpagenum=2

for some examples. (That URL might be a bit long to work correctly from
here). The ones I have just bought are the "Dexter" model at the top.

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

One of the reasons that a car bulb is slow to reach full output, is that
the

filament has to be made thick and robust for enhanced reliability and
failure proofing from vibration. That makes it have substantial thermal
inertia, so much so that you can indeed see it hot up. On the other hand,
high voltage domestic lightbulbs have no such constraints on their
filaments, as they are not going on and off all the time like a brake light
or indicator, and are not subject to vibration in normal use. This results
in the manufacturers being able to design them with a much more delicate
filament, with the result that, to all intents and purposes, the ramp up to
full output is 'instantaneous'.

I don't like disagreeing with you, but this is incorrect. You can easily see
the "ramp up" of household incandescent lights. It's about 1/10 of a second,
and is plainly visible. Some CFLs are (at least visibly) "instantaneous".

 

[Arfa Daily]

I don't like disagreeing with you, but this is incorrect. You can easily
see
the "ramp up" of household incandescent lights. It's about 1/10 of a
second,
and is plainly visible. Some CFLs are (at least visibly) "instantaneous".

Well, maybe the driving voltage does have something to do with it then. With
double the line voltage here that you have there, I can honestly say that I
cannot see any perceivable delay between flicking the switch, and having
light. I have asked a number of people the question, and not one of them has
said that they can either. Not that that is much of a scientific test, of
course. Interestingly though, the ones that I said that I could see ramp up,
are low voltage halogens. So I wonder if the fact that low voltage bulbs
need amps through them, to get the same filament power as a line voltage
bulb does with miliamps, dictates how robust the filament needs to be, and
hence how much theremal inertia it has? I know that halogens run a hotter
filament to get slightly brighter light, but you can also see the low
voltage ones visibly cool as well, which would lend creedence to the theory
that the filament is more robust.

It is not a function of the fact that the bulbs are of a halogen type per
se, as the fittings that I have just bought also use halogen bulbs, but
unlike the fittings that they are replacing, which *were* low voltage (12v
AC nominal), these are line voltage types. They definitely appear to come on
pretty much 'instantaneously'.

So, perhaps a US 110v bulb, does take twice as long to reach 'full' output,
as a 240v one, and that is indeed enough to be able to see ?

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

I don't know. A 100W 240V bulb would have 4 times the resistance, so I
don't
see it "warming up" any more quickly (or slowly).

But if the filament is of a more 'delicate' CSA, that might well give it
less thermal inertia, leading to it heating quicker ? Based on what you are
saying, there is no reason why a low voltage 50 watt car bulb, should heat
any slower than a 50w 240v bulb, but obviously it does, as the ramp up time
can be very clearly seen on them.

Anybody over there got a photodiode, a storage 'scope, and the time to hook
'em together to have a look at just how long the time delay is? Once that
was known, I could do the same here to get a rough comparison.

Arfa

 

[Eeyore]

I'm curious as to where you got this information. It's amazing how an
"old-technology" set is generally considered to be the best direct-view TV
made.

Power consumption. I'd expect more problems to arise if you use the TV a lot.

Graham

 

[Ken]

Yes Jeff, I'm fully aware of all this eco-bollox nonsense with
incandescents, but as far as I am aware, it doesn't affect halogens for
which there are no direct replacements, at this point in time. The G9 bulb
is about the size of a projector lamp or small headlamp bulb, and nothing
else would fit in a socket intended for one. Many many ceiling light
fittings this side of the pond are now 'decorative' design pieces as well as
being functional, and these invariably use bulbs like the G9 or similar pea
types in a halogen format, so unless they are going to render everyone's
modern light fittings obsolete, including ones that are on sale right now, I
can't see how they can ban this type of bulb.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/42...ns-to-be-banned-under-new-EU-legislation.html

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/energy-hog-plasma-tvs-getting-banned-from-eu.php

 

[William Sommerwerck]

b) production of plasma sets is to be ceased if it hasn't been

Power consumption. I'd expect more problems to arise if you use the TV a

lot.

The Pioneer runs surprisingly cool. And it's well-ventilated.

 

[Eeyore]

The Pioneer runs surprisingly cool. And it's well-ventilated.

That's an encouraging sign.

Graham

 

[Arfa Daily]

Arfa Daily wrote:



Sure, but getting to it is the issue; I had promised to run remote
controls
near a radio receiver to listen for RFI too and haven't got to that
either.
Perhaps this weekend; if done I'll post the results and a link to an image
file for the waveform.

Michael

I know what you mean. I think that the older you get, the less inclined you
become to actually getting off your arse and doing these things ... I have a
graphic LCD panel sitting here on the table by the side of me. There is a
board that I built hooked to it, and I have a proper professional IDE /
compiler installed on the computer. I found some routines on the net,
imported them to the IDE and compiled them and loaded them up to the PIC. It
sort of worked, but there is some issue with there being both a vertical and
a horizontal 'echo'. Could be hardware. Could be software. And there it has
sat for at least 2 years. I was really enthusiastic when I started on the
project. Now, I can't even be fagged to look a bit deeper into the routines,
to see if I can write a simple diagnostic to prove out the hardware. Very
sad really. Actually, all I want to do right now, is jet off to sunny
Florida, on holiday ...

Arfa

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The Pioneer runs surprisingly cool. And it's well-ventilated.

That's an encouraging sign.

I was accustomed to standing close to plasma displays and feeling the heat
come off them (on the back of my hand, anyway). The Pioneer had to run
several hours to get noticeably warm, and it wasn't nearly as warm as other
sets.

 

[Arfa Daily]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/42...ns-to-be-banned-under-new-EU-legislation.html

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/energy-hog-plasma-tvs-getting-banned-from-eu.php

Hmmm. Interesting. I wonder if this has had any bearing on Pioneer's
decision to quit the plasma market totally ? It is also interesting that the
article cites LCD's as being much more energy efficient. Well yes, they are
more efficient than plasmas, but nothing like as efficient as CRT sets had
become. The backlighting of even a fairly modest sized LCD amounts to 80
watts or so on its own, without the power consumed by the rest of the set. A
large screen LCD uses over 100 watts to power just the backlights ...

Perhaps this latest bit of green-mist legislation in the making, will
finally kick start the involved parties into sorting out the legal wrangles
to allow the truly efficient and superior display quality SED technology to
gain a foothold as the de facto replacement for plasma.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

Its supposed to rain most of the week.

Bright sunshine here at the moment, but I'd still rather be out your way !
Had a severe weather warning on my Weather Channel desktop for Orlando
Airport yesterday. Very heavy thunder and hail I think it said. Been a while
since I saw a good storm. We're gonna try and get out some time in May.
Based on previous visits at that sort of time, should be quite nice then ??

Arfa